Eviction

[Bumblebee7]

Just thought that I would add something in relation to making a discretionary payment to the tenants to persuade them to leave. In theory not a bad idea and does often work. I would however be extremely cautious about offering this to the tenants. The moment you do, the tenants will know they have you by the dangly bits and you have completely played your hand. Although if the tenants make an offer to you, ie. that they would move for 'X' amount then this is worth seriously considering and make sure you have something in writing.

[LarsG]

sherbertdip said:

LarsG said:

Gary C said:

My son and his girlfriend want to move into her house which is currently rented, but the tenant is playing silly bugegers.

I believe they need to serve a section 21 notice then proceed to court for an eviction after two months ? (Monthly paid rent, initially a 12 month rental, but that's long since past and now just on a monthly renewal)

Thing is, it's done through a letting agent who doesn't seem interested in taking any action (there is a suspicion of a personal relationship)

Can they take any action against the letting agent? Does he have any responsibility as an agent to help remove the tenant ?

Any advice would be welcome.

Also local citizens advice bureau has refused to advise them as they say they won't make someone homeless, can they do this ?

The tenant has rights too, if they are paying, if the tenancy agreement is in good order why be a mean landlord. Give them notice that the tenancy will come to an end at the allotted time, let your son and girlfriend live with you in the meantime and tell them not to be such ****** to the tenants.

It's bad enough living in rented accomadation at the whim of a landlord, it's worse when they are ******s.

Lars, I think your comprehension skills are lacking, and you appear to have a large grudge against landlords.

It has been stated that the year tenancy agreement has long passed, I don't think somebody wanting to live in their own home when they get married is a whim, nor are they being *******s (whatever that is)..

I deal with homeless charities so yes I have see a fair bit of what people have to put up with with bad landlords, those that don't pay their mortgages when tenants pay on time and then get evicted through no fault of their own. If the year is up, though six month tenancies appear the norm, there will be a notice period to vacate. If they don't then they becom squatters and would need to be evicted. They appear to be renting through an agency, so they would have signed an agreement.

The original statement was that the girlfriend wants them out while they have a rental agreement, see above.

[anonymous-user]

Bumblebee7 said:

Just thought that I would add something in relation to making a discretionary payment to the tenants to persuade them to leave. In theory not a bad idea and does often work. I would however be extremely cautious about offering this to the tenants. The moment you do, the tenants will know they have you by the dangly bits and you have completely played your hand. Although if the tenants make an offer to you, ie. that they would move for 'X' amount then this is worth seriously considering and make sure you have something in writing.

You could always say "look, you know that it's going to take a few months to sort this out through the courts. If that's the way it has to be then that's the way .. BUT ... we could both benefit from a little flexibility here and I'm happy to offer X for you to leave in 2 months"

[surveyor_101]

LarsG said:

I deal with homeless charities so yes I have see a fair bit of what people have to put up with with bad landlords, those that don't pay their mortgages when tenants pay on time and then get evicted through no fault of their own. If the year is up, though six month tenancies appear the norm, there will be a notice period to vacate. If they don't then they becom squatters and would need to be evicted. They appear to be renting through an agency, so they would have signed an agreement.

The original statement was that the girlfriend wants them out while they have a rental agreement, see above.

Tink the op's orginal issue was a crap agent wouldn't help them start the process of taking possesion.


There is a mix the of OP and his sons GF not knowing much. Be interesting to know if the property has a morgage and if they landlord is entitle to live in or rent it out under that morgage as there normally quite different things.

As for the agent a polite chat with the tenant the landlords circs have chnaged and they need the property back as they wil need to live in it. Its nice having been on both ends its not fun getting a sec 21 out of the blue. This chat can help iron out any questions.

You could also review the agreement with the agent is it fully managed, as she needs to be a big girl and read the agreement with the agent if one exists. She pays 10-15% of the rent to them they have to earn it.

[surveyor_101]

garyhun said:

You could always say "look, you know that it's going to take a few months to sort this out through the courts. If that's the way it has to be then that's the way .. BUT ... we could both benefit from a little flexibility here and I'm happy to offer X for you to leave in 2 months"

Think its all jump the gun.


At the moment i take the issue to be the agent wouldnt serve notice. We have no idea if the tenant is going to be a problem to vacate or not!

[QuickQuack]

LarsG said:

sherbertdip said:

LarsG said:

Gary C said:

My son and his girlfriend want to move into her house which is currently rented, but the tenant is playing silly bugegers.

I believe they need to serve a section 21 notice then proceed to court for an eviction after two months ? (Monthly paid rent, initially a 12 month rental, but that's long since past and now just on a monthly renewal)

Thing is, it's done through a letting agent who doesn't seem interested in taking any action (there is a suspicion of a personal relationship)

Can they take any action against the letting agent? Does he have any responsibility as an agent to help remove the tenant ?

Any advice would be welcome.

Also local citizens advice bureau has refused to advise them as they say they won't make someone homeless, can they do this ?

The tenant has rights too, if they are paying, if the tenancy agreement is in good order why be a mean landlord. Give them notice that the tenancy will come to an end at the allotted time, let your son and girlfriend live with you in the meantime and tell them not to be such ****** to the tenants.

It's bad enough living in rented accomadation at the whim of a landlord, it's worse when they are ******s.

Lars, I think your comprehension skills are lacking, and you appear to have a large grudge against landlords.

It has been stated that the year tenancy agreement has long passed, I don't think somebody wanting to live in their own home when they get married is a whim, nor are they being *******s (whatever that is)..

I deal with homeless charities so yes I have see a fair bit of what people have to put up with with bad landlords, those that don't pay their mortgages when tenants pay on time and then get evicted through no fault of their own. If the year is up, though six month tenancies appear the norm, there will be a notice period to vacate. If they don't then they becom squatters and would need to be evicted. They appear to be renting through an agency, so they would have signed an agreement.

The original statement was that the girlfriend wants them out while they have a rental agreement, see above.

No it wasn't, re-read what you yourself have quoted in the bold bit. I haven't added it to make you look stupid; go back and check your own post.

It's quite annoying when people don't read what's in front of them properly and start slagging off posts or individuals. It appears that in this case, whatever it was that you meant with ******* is you.

[anonymous-user]

surveyor_101 said:

garyhun said:

You could always say "look, you know that it's going to take a few months to sort this out through the courts. If that's the way it has to be then that's the way .. BUT ... we could both benefit from a little flexibility here and I'm happy to offer X for you to leave in 2 months"

Think its all jump the gun.


At the moment i take the issue to be the agent wouldnt serve notice. We have no idea if the tenant is going to be a problem to vacate or not!

Agree if that is the case.

[TooMany2cvs]

QuickQuack said:

LarsG said:

sherbertdip said:

LarsG said:

Gary C said:

initially a 12 month rental, but that's long since past and now just on a monthly renewal)

Give them notice that the tenancy will come to an end at the allotted time

It has been stated that the year tenancy agreement has long passed

If the year is up, though six month tenancies appear the norm, there will be a notice period to vacate.

No it wasn't, re-read what you yourself have quoted in the bold bit. I haven't added it to make you look stupid; go back and check your own post.

It's quite annoying when people don't read what's in front of them properly and start slagging off posts or individuals. It appears that in this case, whatever it was that you meant with ******* is you.

Umm, I think you're agreeing vehemently. I've trimmed the posts down to the relevant bits.

Yes, it's a statutory periodic now. That means two full rental periods (not simply two calendar months) notice from the landlord from the issue of the s21 to the first point at which possession proceedings can be launched - if the s21 was valid.

[Gary C]

thanks again people, I think we need to talk to the tenant first.

Don't want it to get nasty, think it's important to know the legal requirements beforehand.

They are a very nice couple and this is causing quite a bit of stress to them too however, yes the tenant has rights and we are not going to ignore them.

Meeting my son on Monday and will go though their agreement and see where we are.

Will need to check for an EPC, a gas certificate, rental period, payment period, any agreed notice, anything else ?

Don't think the property has a mortgage.

I do wonder if they have been advised to wait for eviction.

Incentives to quite seem a bit dodgy but things like helping to move might be reasonable as it's an expense that is being incurred due to them wanting possession.

[QuickQuack]

TooMany2cvs said:

Umm, I think you're agreeing vehemently. I've trimmed the posts down to the relevant bits.

You've got it slightly wrong. I do totally agree with sherbertdip but not LarsG. It's sherbertdip who makes the sensible comment before LarsG wades in with more sanctimonious crap. Therefore the sequence I was getting annoyed with was slightly different to the trimmed down version:

LarsG said:

sherbertdip said:

LarsG said:

Gary C said:

My son and his girlfriend want to move into her house which is currently rented, but the tenant is playing silly bugegers.

I believe they need to serve a section 21 notice then proceed to court for an eviction after two months ? (Monthly paid rent, initially a 12 month rental, but that's long since past and now just on a monthly renewal)

Thing is, it's done through a letting agent who doesn't seem interested in taking any action (there is a suspicion of a personal relationship)

Can they take any action against the letting agent? Does he have any responsibility as an agent to help remove the tenant ?

Any advice would be welcome.

Also local citizens advice bureau has refused to advise them as they say they won't make someone homeless, can they do this ?

The tenant has rights too, if they are paying, if the tenancy agreement is in good order why be a mean landlord. Give them notice that the tenancy will come to an end at the allotted time, let your son and girlfriend live with you in the meantime and tell them not to be such ****** to the tenants.

It's bad enough living in rented accomadation at the whim of a landlord, it's worse when they are ******s.

Lars, I think your comprehension skills are lacking, and you appear to have a large grudge against landlords.

It has been stated that the year tenancy agreement has long passed, I don't think somebody wanting to live in their own home when they get married is a whim, nor are they being *******s (whatever that is)..

I deal with homeless charities so yes I have see a fair bit of what people have to put up with with bad landlords, those that don't pay their mortgages when tenants pay on time and then get evicted through no fault of their own. If the year is up, though six month tenancies appear the norm, there will be a notice period to vacate. If they don't then they becom squatters and would need to be evicted. They appear to be renting through an agency, so they would have signed an agreement.

The original statement was that the girlfriend wants them out while they have a rental agreement, see above.

[Bumblebee7]

Gary C said:

thanks again people, I think we need to talk to the tenant first.

Don't want it to get nasty, think it's important to know the legal requirements beforehand.

They are a very nice couple and this is causing quite a bit of stress to them too however, yes the tenant has rights and we are not going to ignore them.

Meeting my son on Monday and will go though their agreement and see where we are.

Will need to check for an EPC, a gas certificate, rental period, payment period, any agreed notice, anything else ?

Don't think the property has a mortgage.

I do wonder if they have been advised to wait for eviction.

Incentives to quite seem a bit dodgy but things like helping to move might be reasonable as it's an expense that is being incurred due to them wanting possession.

Definitely keep it amicable and avoid even mentioning court unless you really have no other alternative.

Don't forget to make sure the tenants deposit is protected! Other than that gas safe, EICR every 5 years is good practice (though not legal requirement) and EPC.

Good luck!

[Gary C]

Thanks bumble

[Paul the Painter]

They could also use Ground 1, which is only available to an owner occupier returning to live in the property. The tenants would need to have been advised that this was a possibility before the start of the tenancy, but the advantage of this ground is that it doesn't carry the same obligations on the landlord that have been added to a section 21 over the years.

Of course if you have an incompetent letting agent who did not include it in the tenancy agreement in the beginning, this is of no use.

It is worth noting that you can issue as many notices on as many grounds as you like (that are valid)

For instance let's say you have a tenant who is 3 months behind with the rent. You could issue a section 8 notice alone. Then get to court and find they have brought their rent up to date (or less than 2 months in arrears) your action fails

If on the other hand you issued a section 8 ground 8, section 8 ground 11, a section 8 ground 1 and a section 21, you would have fall back positions.

In this situation your section 8 ground 8 would fail, but the judge would have discretion to evict on section 8 ground 11 if there were any arrears at all (TBH unlikely unless a history of arrears) but you would also be able to fall back on the section 21 (and potentially be able to utilise the accelerated possession procedure) if you've made an error in regards to (for instance) the provision of an EPC, then you could fall back further to the section 8 ground 1 that you were returning to your home. This ground does not require as much documentation as a section 21.

[Gary C]

Paul the Painter said:

They could also use Ground 1, which is only available to an owner occupier returning to live in the property. The tenants would need to have been advised that this was a possibility before the start of the tenancy, but the advantage of this ground is that it doesn't carry the same obligations on the landlord that have been added to a section 21 over the years.

Of course if you have an incompetent letting agent who did not include it in the tenancy agreement in the beginning, this is of no use.

It is worth noting that you can issue as many notices on as many grounds as you like (that are valid)

For instance let's say you have a tenant who is 3 months behind with the rent. You could issue a section 8 notice alone. Then get to court and find they have brought their rent up to date (or less than 2 months in arrears) your action fails

If on the other hand you issued a section 8 ground 8, section 8 ground 11, a section 8 ground 1 and a section 21, you would have fall back positions.

In this situation your section 8 ground 8 would fail, but the judge would have discretion to evict on section 8 ground 11 if there were any arrears at all (TBH unlikely unless a history of arrears) but you would also be able to fall back on the section 21 (and potentially be able to utilise the accelerated possession procedure) if you've made an error in regards to (for instance) the provision of an EPC, then you could fall back further to the section 8 ground 1 that you were returning to your home. This ground does not require as much documentation as a section 21.

Thanks.

We are trying to remain amicable and ensure that the tenant gets another rental before any legal moves as my son and his fiancée have a bit of time before they ant to move in, but a line in the sand needs to be drawn. As such I wanted to know what the rules were
Rent payment has always been on time.

Got the gas certificate and the EPC, they have agreed to return the deposit to allow them to secure a new rental (not sure this was the best idea, but it's not my let)

Hope it will all work out ok.

[Pacman1978]

I can't be the only person who wrongly assumed that the rent had been ceased being paid.

"playing silly buggers"

That house is someone's home. If the above is how a tenant is viewed then why should they go out of their way to make things all nicey nice for someone who cares not a jot about them.

Have they thought about how they might react to someone who basically wants to them on the streets.

I'd wager on any advice the tenant receives will be to stick it out and go through the whole process of eviction.

They could also act like decent human beings and not just do the done thing of acting like a selfish . Karma and all that.

[NGee]

Pacman1978 said:

Have they thought about how they might react to someone who basically wants to them on the streets.


They could also act like decent human beings and not just do the done thing of acting like a selfish . Karma and all that.

Maybe you could explain why the owners of the property should not be allowed to move into thier own house, possibly preventing themselves from being on the streets??

[WinstonWolf]

NGee said:

Pacman1978 said:

Have they thought about how they might react to someone who basically wants to them on the streets.


They could also act like decent human beings and not just do the done thing of acting like a selfish . Karma and all that.

Maybe you could explain why the owners of the property should not be allowed to move into thier own house, possibly preventing themselves from being on the streets??

The home isn't owned by the tenant, they are allowed to stay there subject to fulfilling their contractural obligations for a set period of time.

[santona1937]

Don't know if this is a factor or not, but in a tight rental market there are tenants who need some back up in case they are unable to find an affordable place to live. Align this with the fact that many councils will only help you if you are being evicted, and a number of tenants will stay until that point. If they volunteer to move they lose all rights to local authority support.

[MoggieMinor]

Is selling the property to the tenants an option? Are they in a position to buy it? They are paying rent so presumably they can keep up mortgage payments. Just a thought, obviously i don't know how important the house is to the owner compared with other properties available.

[Gary C]

Right, all sorted. Tennant has moved into another let and is happy.

House is in a bit of a mess, but as they returned the deposit early to help the tenant find another place, that's not something they are going to worry about..

The tenant has had both meters changed to prepayment, they are a bit concerned but I've told them they can be easily changed back and it means there can't be any outstanding gas or electricity bills.

I think in the end it came down to time and talking.

Thanks for all the sensible comments and advice was useful to know what can and can't be done. Avoids getting into an argument and actually helped keeping things civilised
And to the sanctimonious ones (one?) some of the posts were actually quite shameful, ask questions before accusing people eh ?