Producing a foreign driving licence
Discussion
Ayahuasca said:
I have a UK and a foreign (non EU) licence and I do not live in the U.K.
If I am stopped by plod in the UK and asked for my licence, is there any advantage (avoiding points) in showing my foreign one?
There will still be a PNC record of your UK licence, even if it is an old one. Say you didn't have a UK licence at all and driving on your foreign one you can still get a ticket, a UK ghost licence will be created and a record of points will be on there. Or certain officers (normally traffic) can issue a penalty ticket at the roadside that has to be paid there and then. If I am stopped by plod in the UK and asked for my licence, is there any advantage (avoiding points) in showing my foreign one?
Or there is the possibility of arrest and put before the next court if they can't deal with it any other way (unlikely I know).
Yes, I always produce my foreign licence (OK twice in 35 years), both times for speeding on the motor way, both in hire cars, both time I was severely chastised, like standing in front of the head master at school, both times I was let off. I theory they can create a ghost licence in practice for a minor offence it hasn't happened to me.
First time I was resident in Norway and Norwegian law is that it is illegal for a resident to hold a licence other than Norway, so I told the police man I had surrendered my UK licence.
Second time it was Malaysia, not illegal there but I told them i was not allowed to hold a Uk licence, and again let off.
Both times I admitted I had held a UK license, and had surrendered it to get the foreign one, both times let off, (I am on some thing like issue 19 of my UK licence).
Both times I was threatened with arrest if I couldn't give a UK address, and being held in custody until the magistrates sat, I don't have a UK address, my parents are dead, no family and no house in my name, so I just stuck to the hotel address and was let off.
I discussed this with my uncle who is a police man, he said that in my circumstances for a minor offence he would let me off, serious offence like drink/dangerous driving he would hold me in custody.
First time I was resident in Norway and Norwegian law is that it is illegal for a resident to hold a licence other than Norway, so I told the police man I had surrendered my UK licence.
Second time it was Malaysia, not illegal there but I told them i was not allowed to hold a Uk licence, and again let off.
Both times I admitted I had held a UK license, and had surrendered it to get the foreign one, both times let off, (I am on some thing like issue 19 of my UK licence).
Both times I was threatened with arrest if I couldn't give a UK address, and being held in custody until the magistrates sat, I don't have a UK address, my parents are dead, no family and no house in my name, so I just stuck to the hotel address and was let off.
I discussed this with my uncle who is a police man, he said that in my circumstances for a minor offence he would let me off, serious offence like drink/dangerous driving he would hold me in custody.
Algarve said:
Technically... yes
How many expats do you think there are that don't still know someone back home? Its trivial to keep renewing your license without being a resident.
I think you've got that the wrong way round. Technically, it is possible (don't ask me how I know). But legally it isn't.How many expats do you think there are that don't still know someone back home? Its trivial to keep renewing your license without being a resident.
Hutchset you don't renew your Uk licence it last until you are 70, you are not required to surrender it when you move overseas , but you have to have a contact address in the UK that works to keep/use a Uk license, I don't my parents died in 1982, my children don't reside in the UK, no siblings, I have a cousin I spoke to 4 years ago, and I don't have a house there, so technically I cant use a UK license as if I had notification to the last address the DVLA have i left there 21 years ago, so legal I drive on my Malaysian license. I know scores of people in that position.
Also as I said as a point of law many countries have laws that as a resident you can not legaly hold a foreign licence,
So it is not a technical issue, it would actually be illegal fro me to use a UK license.
Also as I said as a point of law many countries have laws that as a resident you can not legaly hold a foreign licence,
So it is not a technical issue, it would actually be illegal fro me to use a UK license.
LosingGrip said:
There will still be a PNC record of your UK licence, even if it is an old one. Say you didn't have a UK licence at all and driving on your foreign one you can still get a ticket, a UK ghost licence will be created and a record of points will be on there. Or certain officers (normally traffic) can issue a penalty ticket at the roadside that has to be paid there and then.
Or there is the possibility of arrest and put before the next court if they can't deal with it any other way (unlikely I know).
I can vouch for this Or there is the possibility of arrest and put before the next court if they can't deal with it any other way (unlikely I know).
Pulled over by an unmarked car whilst making progress on the M5 one christmas
I was driving a hire car on a valid UAE licence, whilst also having an expired UK one.
It was dealt with by making payment over the phone whilst in the back of the car with the points put on my expired UK license.
He did ask if I was still resident in the UAE but didnt ask for any evidence to back up my answer.
Berw said:
Hutchset you don't renew your Uk licence it last until you are 70, you are not required to surrender it when you move overseas , but you have to have a contact address in the UK that works to keep/use a Uk license, I don't my parents died in 1982, my children don't reside in the UK, no siblings, I have a cousin I spoke to 4 years ago, and I don't have a house there, so technically I cant use a UK license as if I had notification to the last address the DVLA have i left there 21 years ago, so legal I drive on my Malaysian license. I know scores of people in that position.
Also as I said as a point of law many countries have laws that as a resident you can not legaly hold a foreign licence,
So it is not a technical issue, it would actually be illegal fro me to use a UK license.
You have to renew a pink photocard licence every 10 years in the UK. That's the law. Many countries take your UK licence in exchange. South Africa is one example. I'm sure they still have my UK paper licence in a filing cabinet in Pretoria for the past 25 years.Also as I said as a point of law many countries have laws that as a resident you can not legaly hold a foreign licence,
So it is not a technical issue, it would actually be illegal fro me to use a UK license.
I am not making this up. I know this from personal experience. I have done both. People ask here for advice. If I don't know the answer I don't bother posting. It doesn't help giving wrong information.
So Hutchset you tell me something i didn't know, My UK licence was 'upgraded' in 1999 when I added a bike, (I had a house in the UK then) since then I've done nothing, I thought it run to 70th birthday with no further action, in 1999 I used the upgrade on the UK licence to add a Bike to my Malaysian licence, and since then I've never used my British Licence. It is still on the address of my house from 1999 which I sold in 2001.
As I said I knew the licence was 'illegal' because I couldn't be contacted through the address, but you are now telling me that it has 'expired' as I haven't 'renewed' it in 20 years.
As I say its not a legal issue for me, I have no intention to return to the UK and use my foreign licence all the time, but I wasn't aware it had expired.
A big advantage of a foreign licence is that when I do come to Europe I hire a car and with a forign licence I don't need to do the 'pre-registation' with the DVLC.
As I said I knew the licence was 'illegal' because I couldn't be contacted through the address, but you are now telling me that it has 'expired' as I haven't 'renewed' it in 20 years.
As I say its not a legal issue for me, I have no intention to return to the UK and use my foreign licence all the time, but I wasn't aware it had expired.
A big advantage of a foreign licence is that when I do come to Europe I hire a car and with a forign licence I don't need to do the 'pre-registation' with the DVLC.
Where confusion can arise is due to the difference between the old paper version and the photocard. The former is valid until you reach 70.
However the latter has two different dates. The one after 4b, on the front relates only to the validity of the photo.
Your driving entitlement categories on the back remain good until you're 70.
When renewing your photo be sure to check your categories on the new card. If the DVLA f
k them up you'll be in a world of pain.
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/jun/20/lice...
However the latter has two different dates. The one after 4b, on the front relates only to the validity of the photo.
Your driving entitlement categories on the back remain good until you're 70.
When renewing your photo be sure to check your categories on the new card. If the DVLA f
k them up you'll be in a world of pain.https://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/jun/20/lice...
£1k: Level 3 on the standard scale. Non endorsable.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/53/sched...
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1982/48/secti...
Btw the penalty for failure to renew the photo is an administrative one.
The offence is RTA 1988 Section 99(5).
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/secti...
It does not, as many seem to think, mean the licence is no longer in force.
For that to happen you have to have been banned or your licence revoked by the DVLA.
In those circumstances the offence will be RTA 1988 Section 87
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/secti...
That one will get you Nectar points.
Legal opinion - https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/blog/entry/legislation...
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/53/sched...
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1982/48/secti...
Btw the penalty for failure to renew the photo is an administrative one.
The offence is RTA 1988 Section 99(5).
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/secti...
It does not, as many seem to think, mean the licence is no longer in force.
For that to happen you have to have been banned or your licence revoked by the DVLA.
In those circumstances the offence will be RTA 1988 Section 87
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/secti...
That one will get you Nectar points.
Legal opinion - https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/blog/entry/legislation...
So my position, Lived outside the UK for the majority of my Adult life and permanently since Dec 1997, 65 years old. I haven't used my UK licence in the UK or any where else since Nov 1977.
I had a contact address in the UK up to mid 2002. I have a letter from HRMC agreeing I no longer need to file a Nil UK tax return dated 2005.
I used my UK licence as proof to obtain a Malaysian Licence in early 1998, and since then I have used that all over the world (address agrees to credit card,no need for the DVLC registration etc).
And that is the licence I used last time I was stopped in the UK in a hire car. As I knew the address was wrong I said I had surrendered my UK license to get the Malaysian one. The discussion was was this the correct action, it looks like the answer is yes the only licence I have that is 'legal' is the Malaysian one.
I've never updated the photo, and I wouldn't use the licence as I understand it is a requirement for a UK licence that it has a UK address that you can be contacted at, and I don't,as my parents are dead, my children live overseas, and all I have in the UK is friends and cousins, none of whom I would want to have to deal with correspondence from DVLC.
But my understanding up to this thread, was that if I wanted to I could return to the UK and get my license updated any time before my 70th birthday.
You are now telling me that if I contacted the DVLC to update my license they could in theory, fine me 1K pounds for the photo? I wont be doing this as I don't have an address in the UK to use.
But if I do return to the UK, my best course of action looks like to send my Malaysian license to the DVLC with my UK number and a letter stating my UK license had been surrendered the the Malaysian authorities and ask them to reinstate my UK licence at my new address,
Stress this is a theoretical discussion,
I had a contact address in the UK up to mid 2002. I have a letter from HRMC agreeing I no longer need to file a Nil UK tax return dated 2005.
I used my UK licence as proof to obtain a Malaysian Licence in early 1998, and since then I have used that all over the world (address agrees to credit card,no need for the DVLC registration etc).
And that is the licence I used last time I was stopped in the UK in a hire car. As I knew the address was wrong I said I had surrendered my UK license to get the Malaysian one. The discussion was was this the correct action, it looks like the answer is yes the only licence I have that is 'legal' is the Malaysian one.
I've never updated the photo, and I wouldn't use the licence as I understand it is a requirement for a UK licence that it has a UK address that you can be contacted at, and I don't,as my parents are dead, my children live overseas, and all I have in the UK is friends and cousins, none of whom I would want to have to deal with correspondence from DVLC.
But my understanding up to this thread, was that if I wanted to I could return to the UK and get my license updated any time before my 70th birthday.
You are now telling me that if I contacted the DVLC to update my license they could in theory, fine me 1K pounds for the photo? I wont be doing this as I don't have an address in the UK to use.
But if I do return to the UK, my best course of action looks like to send my Malaysian license to the DVLC with my UK number and a letter stating my UK license had been surrendered the the Malaysian authorities and ask them to reinstate my UK licence at my new address,
Stress this is a theoretical discussion,
Berw said:
So my position, Lived outside the UK for the majority of my Adult life and permanently since Dec 1997, 65 years old. I haven't used my UK licence in the UK or any where else since Nov 1977.
Given that you have been permanently resident outside the UK since Dec 1977 and last used your UK D/L before that (did you mean to say Nov 1997 rather than 1977?) how/why did you acquire a photocard one? They weren't introduced here until 1998.Berw said:
I had a contact address in the UK up to mid 2002. I have a letter from HRMC agreeing I no longer need to file a Nil UK tax return dated 2005.
I used my UK licence as proof to obtain a Malaysian Licence in early 1998, and since then I have used that all over the world (address agrees to credit card,no need for the DVLC registration etc).
And that is the licence I used last time I was stopped in the UK in a hire car. As I knew the address was wrong I said I had surrendered my UK license to get the Malaysian one. The discussion was was this the correct action, it looks like the answer is yes the only licence I have that is 'legal' is the Malaysian one.
As an ex-pat resident in Malaysia, if you were a visitor driving a hire car in the UK on your Malaysian licence I don't understand what you mean by 'the address was wrong'.I used my UK licence as proof to obtain a Malaysian Licence in early 1998, and since then I have used that all over the world (address agrees to credit card,no need for the DVLC registration etc).
And that is the licence I used last time I was stopped in the UK in a hire car. As I knew the address was wrong I said I had surrendered my UK license to get the Malaysian one. The discussion was was this the correct action, it looks like the answer is yes the only licence I have that is 'legal' is the Malaysian one.
Btw is your Malaysian one the newer plastic type similar to the UK photocard or the old laminated card?
Berw said:
I've never updated the photo, and I wouldn't use the licence as I understand it is a requirement for a UK licence that it has a UK address that you can be contacted at, and I don't,as my parents are dead, my children live overseas, and all I have in the UK is friends and cousins, none of whom I would want to have to deal with correspondence from DVLC.
But my understanding up to this thread, was that if I wanted to I could return to the UK and get my license updated any time before my 70th birthday.
You are now telling me that if I contacted the DVLC to update my license they could in theory, fine me 1K pounds for the photo? I wont be doing this as I don't have an address in the UK to use.
I reckon you're overthinking this. How do you propose to 'update' it if you have no valid UK address? The likelihood of getting a fine is next to nothing if you leave well alone.But my understanding up to this thread, was that if I wanted to I could return to the UK and get my license updated any time before my 70th birthday.
You are now telling me that if I contacted the DVLC to update my license they could in theory, fine me 1K pounds for the photo? I wont be doing this as I don't have an address in the UK to use.
Berw said:
But if I do return to the UK, my best course of action looks like to send my Malaysian license to the DVLC with my UK number and a letter stating my UK license had been surrendered the the Malaysian authorities and ask them to reinstate my UK licence at my new address,
I have no idea what the rules in Malaysia are about surrendering a foreign licence. I would be wary of telling porkies about doing so if you haven't.Golden rule: only provide information you're asked for. With no valid UK address it wouldn't be possible to renew the photo on the UK D/L so why tell a lie which might be found out?
If you passed a test in the UK the
Have a look here - http://britishexpats.com/forum/moving-back-uk-61/r...
Berw said:
Stress this is a theoretical discussion,
OK.OK Long story I wanted a bike license in 2001 so I did direct access in UK, updated my UK licence for a bike then added it for a Malaysian License. The Malaysian test did not give me the assurances I wanted on having basic skills.
Surrendering your license is valid, I surrendered my UK license in Norway in early 80's for a Norwegian one, and never got it back, Malaysia its discretionary sometimes the clerk keeps it sometime not, no one could confirm or deny if my license was retained by JPJ here (That's our DVLA)
Yes 97, and yes overthinking, just interested in how the law has changed, I have no intention of returning to the UK. but it is the only country I have permanent residency right so I keep the possibility open. I have residency rights in a few places but these can be revoked.
As I said I have unusual circumstances, I drive in the UK two weeks a year at most, on a foreign license, and effectively do not have a valid UK one to use, as I don't have a contact address, some one asked if any one was in the circumstance that they legally drove in the UK on a foreign license. and I am, I thought my license was 'unusable' because of the address then the picture thing came up and I was interested.
Of course in the event of a serious issue the police would check and 'reinstate' my license or create a ghost one.
Surrendering your license is valid, I surrendered my UK license in Norway in early 80's for a Norwegian one, and never got it back, Malaysia its discretionary sometimes the clerk keeps it sometime not, no one could confirm or deny if my license was retained by JPJ here (That's our DVLA)
Yes 97, and yes overthinking, just interested in how the law has changed, I have no intention of returning to the UK. but it is the only country I have permanent residency right so I keep the possibility open. I have residency rights in a few places but these can be revoked.
As I said I have unusual circumstances, I drive in the UK two weeks a year at most, on a foreign license, and effectively do not have a valid UK one to use, as I don't have a contact address, some one asked if any one was in the circumstance that they legally drove in the UK on a foreign license. and I am, I thought my license was 'unusable' because of the address then the picture thing came up and I was interested.
Of course in the event of a serious issue the police would check and 'reinstate' my license or create a ghost one.
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