Notice to quit
Discussion
2008.
Just spoken to the agent and they've said categorically he only has to give me two months notice, 'the law changed' about it running from the start of the rental period. Which is weird because everything online says it does have to run from the rental period.
Found this on the gov website:
'If it’s a periodic tenancy, you must also let your tenants stay for any additional time covered by their final rent payment.'
Just spoken to the agent and they've said categorically he only has to give me two months notice, 'the law changed' about it running from the start of the rental period. Which is weird because everything online says it does have to run from the rental period.
Found this on the gov website:
'If it’s a periodic tenancy, you must also let your tenants stay for any additional time covered by their final rent payment.'
Edited by Spumfry on Friday 23 March 16:32
Spumfry said:
2008.
Just spoken to the agent and they've said categorically he only has to give me two months notice, 'the law changed' about it running from the start of the rental period. Which is weird because everything online says it does have to run from the rental period.
They are wrong.Just spoken to the agent and they've said categorically he only has to give me two months notice, 'the law changed' about it running from the start of the rental period. Which is weird because everything online says it does have to run from the rental period.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/housing/renting-...
If you have a 'contractual periodic tenancy'
Your section 21 notice must end on the last day of your tenancy period if you have a ‘contractual periodic tenancy’. This means your tenancy has been rolling from the beginning, or you agreed it would keep rolling after your fixed term ended.
For example, if your tenancy runs to the 23rd of the month, your section 21 notice must end on the 23rd of that month.
Your section 21 notice must say that your landlord is trying to make you leave your home using section 21.
If you don’t have a contractual periodic tenancy, for example if you have a fixed-term tenancy that has ended, your landlord only has to give you 2 months’ notice.
Also, just to be absolutely sure... from here: https://www.rla.org.uk/landlord/guides/section-21-...
New assured shorthold tenancies in England starting from October 1st 2015 onwards will have to use the new standardised Section 21 form and abide by all the requirements for valid service. New for these purposes includes the renewal of tenancies but not statutory periodic tenancies.
New assured shorthold tenancies in England starting from October 1st 2015 onwards will have to use the new standardised Section 21 form and abide by all the requirements for valid service. New for these purposes includes the renewal of tenancies but not statutory periodic tenancies.
A Section 21 Notice is only informing the tenant/s that the landlord intends to end the/their tenancy, only a court can grant the landlord possession of the rental property.
Once the Section 21 Notice has expired, then if the OP/ tenant is still in occupation then landlord will be required to obtain a possession order from the court before he can take back the property. This is because the expiry of the notice does not mean the end of the tenancy. Therefore, all the landlord’s obligations, including those relating to repairs, continue. Where the tenant does leave, the landlord of course is free to take back possession and re-let.
Up to 70% of possession proceedings before the courts are thrown out by the courts, mainly due to Section 21 Notices being incorrectly completed. If the Section 21 is completed correctly, and the landlord takes proceedings to the court, then repossession of the rental property can take between 5-6 months one can add on a further three months if the Section 21 Notice is completed incorrectly.
A Section 21 Notice will be deemed invalid if a landlord (or an agent) has failed to provide the OP/tenant with an Energy Performance Certificate/EPC, the latest annual Gas Safety Certificate, and a “How to Rent” Guide. Also the Section 21Notice will be deemed invalid if the landlord has failed to register the OP/tenant’s Deposit monies and provided the prescribed information to the OP/tenant within 30 days of taking the Deposit.
Whilst from the information posted by the OP it would appear that the OP’s tenancy is a monthly Statutory Periodic Tenancy Agreement, the same will still retains the OP/tenant’s rights under the original Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreement.
If the OP pays his rent on the 24th day of a month then it is assumed the monthly periodic tenancy starts on that same day in any month. To serve a correct two (2) month Notice, then the landlord would have to serve the Notice before the 24th, the same ending the tenancy two month time so 24th March (rent payment day) start of new monthly tenancy, with end of two month tenancy Notice 23rd May 2018.
Once the Section 21 Notice has expired, then if the OP/ tenant is still in occupation then landlord will be required to obtain a possession order from the court before he can take back the property. This is because the expiry of the notice does not mean the end of the tenancy. Therefore, all the landlord’s obligations, including those relating to repairs, continue. Where the tenant does leave, the landlord of course is free to take back possession and re-let.
Up to 70% of possession proceedings before the courts are thrown out by the courts, mainly due to Section 21 Notices being incorrectly completed. If the Section 21 is completed correctly, and the landlord takes proceedings to the court, then repossession of the rental property can take between 5-6 months one can add on a further three months if the Section 21 Notice is completed incorrectly.
A Section 21 Notice will be deemed invalid if a landlord (or an agent) has failed to provide the OP/tenant with an Energy Performance Certificate/EPC, the latest annual Gas Safety Certificate, and a “How to Rent” Guide. Also the Section 21Notice will be deemed invalid if the landlord has failed to register the OP/tenant’s Deposit monies and provided the prescribed information to the OP/tenant within 30 days of taking the Deposit.
Whilst from the information posted by the OP it would appear that the OP’s tenancy is a monthly Statutory Periodic Tenancy Agreement, the same will still retains the OP/tenant’s rights under the original Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreement.
If the OP pays his rent on the 24th day of a month then it is assumed the monthly periodic tenancy starts on that same day in any month. To serve a correct two (2) month Notice, then the landlord would have to serve the Notice before the 24th, the same ending the tenancy two month time so 24th March (rent payment day) start of new monthly tenancy, with end of two month tenancy Notice 23rd May 2018.
Wings said:
Also the Section 21 Notice will be deemed invalid if the landlord has failed to register the OP/tenant’s Deposit monies and provided the prescribed information to the OP/tenant within 30 days of taking the Deposit.
Wings, I'm with you all the way here - you always provide good advice and know what you are talking about. As a landlord myself (since 2002 - portfolio ranging from 1 to 6 and back to 3 but aiming for 2 currently) I'm keen to stay on the right side of the regs etc, but I've not had a tenancy go from the old rules to the new rules ref registering deposits. All of my current tenancies are well within the new scheme and indeed have their deposits registered (with TDS in my case).But, in the OP's case, his tenancy started prior to the registration of deposits - when the rules changed, did all existing deposits have to be registered or could they stay as they were under grandfather rights? If so, apart from the other very good info you posted regarding the rules on S21 notices, how might this affect the OP?
S6PNJ said:
Wings, I'm with you all the way here - you always provide good advice and know what you are talking about. As a landlord myself (since 2002 - portfolio ranging from 1 to 6 and back to 3 but aiming for 2 currently) I'm keen to stay on the right side of the regs etc, but I've not had a tenancy go from the old rules to the new rules ref registering deposits. All of my current tenancies are well within the new scheme and indeed have their deposits registered (with TDS in my case).
But, in the OP's case, his tenancy started prior to the registration of deposits - when the rules changed, did all existing deposits have to be registered or could they stay as they were under grandfather rights? If so, apart from the other very good info you posted regarding the rules on S21 notices, how might this affect the OP?
^^^^Thanks for pointing out the above, without seeing the OP’s tenancy documents etc., one can only offer general advice, and that is why there is no substitute for a tenant placing those same documents, before either a local solicitor, citizen advice bureau or the local council’s private housing office.But, in the OP's case, his tenancy started prior to the registration of deposits - when the rules changed, did all existing deposits have to be registered or could they stay as they were under grandfather rights? If so, apart from the other very good info you posted regarding the rules on S21 notices, how might this affect the OP?
As for the protection of the OP’s Deposit, it will very much depend on the end of the OP’s original Fixed Term Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreement (hereafter AST) . If the AST’s fixed term started before 6 April 2007, and then rolled over after that same date into a Periodic Tenancy, then the following applies under the Deregulation Act 2015.
“ If the deposit has not been protected, the landlord now has a period of 90 days from 26 March 2015 (or before the Court hearing to determine a tenant claim for compensation or to determine the landlord’s claim for possession under s.21, whichever is the earlier) to protect the deposit and serve the prescribed information.”
Therefore in the OP’s case, if the original AST ended after 6 April 2007, then the OP’s Deposit needed to be protected within 90 days after 26 March 2015.
As a landlord myself, if I found myself in a similar position to the OP’s landlord, that is whether the Section 21 was valid, due to the above Deposit not being protected then I would return the OP/tenant’s Deposit when serving the Section 21 Notice. Section 215 of the Housing Act does allow for the serving of a Section 21 Notice, where the tenant has received the return of their Deposit.
In the OP’s case it could well be that none of the above will apply, and that the OP will find alternation rental accommodation within the two month Notice period, or that the landlord will allow the OP further time to locate the same.
The OP, or any other tenant in a similar situation, should retain the above information, and not share the same with their landlord/agent that is until any court hearing, thereby if the Section 21 is proved to be invalid, then the court will throw out the landlord’s case.
mikecassie said:
You're better off away if that's his attitude IMO. If I could get a good tenant in for a long term I'd see no point in increasing the rent, any gains I'm sure are lost in the faff of freshening up the place and the risks of getting in unknowns. Yes they pay more but what extra costs will they bring with them...
Agreed. All my current tenants are long term and I have not increased the rents at all. A bad tenant will cost you dearly. My last bad one stopped paying the rent, trashed the place, and stole the white goods. I would say I was about 5-6k out of pocket + all my time spent fixing the place back up.
Could possibly be a personal reason, I had a tenancy for two years, was on a 1st name basis with the landlord, who had 3 properties (one of which was the garage across the street I used to frequent). We had a fairly good relationship, as such he was fairly up front with me when he had to kick me out on short notice.
His mum had some bad health, he wanted to move her up to be with the rest of the family, and my small 1 bedroom tenament was the most appropriate property for her.
Now if we weren't on a 1st name basis I could totally see why he wouldn't disclose that and simply say he was renting to another tenant.
His mum had some bad health, he wanted to move her up to be with the rest of the family, and my small 1 bedroom tenament was the most appropriate property for her.
Now if we weren't on a 1st name basis I could totally see why he wouldn't disclose that and simply say he was renting to another tenant.
If you're going to stay in one house for 10 + years why on earth would you choose to rent rather than buy?
Surely if you can pay rent, you can pay mortgage (which would probably be cheaper anyway). You gain security and build up your own equity rather than your landlords.
What am I missing?
Edited to add, this isn't directed at the OP, it's more in general.
Surely if you can pay rent, you can pay mortgage (which would probably be cheaper anyway). You gain security and build up your own equity rather than your landlords.
What am I missing?
Edited to add, this isn't directed at the OP, it's more in general.
Edited by Helicopter123 on Saturday 24th March 16:59
Helicopter123 said:
If you're going to stay in one house for 10 + years why on earth would you choose to rent rather than buy?
Surely if you can pay rent, you can pay mortgage (which would probably be cheaper anyway). You gain security and build up your own equity rather than your landlords.
What am I missing?
Edited to add, this isn't directed at the OP, it's more in general.
Lots! Surely if you can pay rent, you can pay mortgage (which would probably be cheaper anyway). You gain security and build up your own equity rather than your landlords.
What am I missing?
Edited to add, this isn't directed at the OP, it's more in general.
Edited by Helicopter123 on Saturday 24th March 16:59
I currently rent a 2 bed house just of J11 of the M4 near Reading. It’s a lovely place, big enough for me and my kids at the weekends. I pay a very reasonable £900 (all things in perspective) when my landlady could easy get £1100pcm.
An identical house on the estate has just gone on the market for £375k.... Even a 10% deposit on that is £37k, which I actually have. The problem is on my modest salary (Circa £40k) I couldn’t mortgage the remaining £340k!! So I can afford to rent a house that I can’t afford to buy.
Thanks again to everyone, and particularly to Wings, for all the excellent advice. I now have reason to believe that the Section 21 I received isn't valid. I'm still planning on getting out as soon as possible, but it's some comfort to know that I could have some extra time if I absolutely need it.
Just tell them you're moving out 2 weeks after they expect you to whether you like or not because they've got the law wrong. No chance theyll even try to get you out before then because they can't.
s
tty that this can happen tbh. I'm usually all for free markets but I really like the rental laws in Canada, where I am now. Rent rises each year are regulated and a landlord can only evict if they're selling, doing substantial work, moving into it themselves or you break the terms of your lease.
s
tty that this can happen tbh. I'm usually all for free markets but I really like the rental laws in Canada, where I am now. Rent rises each year are regulated and a landlord can only evict if they're selling, doing substantial work, moving into it themselves or you break the terms of your lease. Spumfry said:
2008.
Just spoken to the agent and they've said categorically he only has to give me two months notice, 'the law changed' about it running from the start of the rental period. Which is weird because everything online says it does have to run from the rental period.
Found this on the gov website:
'If it’s a periodic tenancy, you must also let your tenants stay for any additional time covered by their final rent payment.'
There is some confusion introduced by the govt. So you are on an old TA. has the rent increased since the last tenancy agreement?Just spoken to the agent and they've said categorically he only has to give me two months notice, 'the law changed' about it running from the start of the rental period. Which is weird because everything online says it does have to run from the rental period.
Found this on the gov website:
'If it’s a periodic tenancy, you must also let your tenants stay for any additional time covered by their final rent payment.'
Edited by Spumfry on Friday 23 March 16:32
two different s21 notices "may" be issued.
The old one s21 1b or the new one s21 6a
the rules have changed slightly - under the new s21 6a form 2 months notice can be given at any stage although 'overpaid' rent will have to be paid back. s21 6a does infact say this. That's what the estate agents are thinking about.
if the old form s21 1b was used then yes it has to be from a rent date. so 2 clear months notice from a rent date.
You said you have the old notice 1b thus this should be from a rent date.
In practice its going to be easier and less stressful just looking for a new property to move into.
Edited by superlightr on Monday 26th March 12:53
Edited by superlightr on Monday 26th March 12:54
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