Bad driving on M25
Discussion
Youtube said:
Carrying on from part 1, after the collision the driver refused to stop but eventually was stopped by the driver of the hit car, police attended and said no offence committed did not breathalise either driver and actually held the driver of the hit car for 30 minutes because they said he was aggressive!! Go figure.
Just seen this on the description of the video. Sounds like a typical DCW... 
travel is dangerous said:
Mr10secs said:
Have you driven on the M25? Leave a bigger gap and you just get pushed back.
I know. One time I tried to leave the two second gap. I was trying to go from junction 8 to 11 but by the time I turned off I’d been pushed back all the way to junction 4. In the end I used the opposite carriageway to head towards junction 1. Fortunately this pushed me all the way round to 11.
vonhosen said:
Don't think it's gone the way he hoped so I suspect he's going to punish you & not tell!
Youtube description: The driver was held for 30 minutes as the police deemed them aggressive.I suspect that is where the indignation comes in.
Viewing the footage - typical M25 nose-tail in L4 with L1/2 under utilised... often better and safer progress made there without exceeding the limit in these conditions. But I digress.
The Ford has come up the inside and then tried to manoeuvre into the side of him, without really being clear. After literally forcing his car into the non-gap he's hit the brakes. The dash cam driver hasn't taken obvious defensive action when one might reasonably have done so.
It's not unreasonable to me that one might initially back off and give a bit of horn entirely expecting the other car to correct course. Hitting the brakes wouldn't be my immediate reaction, but covering them would. If the manoeuvre is then continued you're already covering for a sharp stab to make space and avoid the accident.
Let me make it clear: the ford driver is an utter cock wobble, likely caused the accident and should IMO have been punished to dissuade such appalling driving in future. If he got away with it I'd have expressed some distain as well, but without any aggression.
Where it falls apart for the dash cam driver is that he appears to speed up once the guy starts moving over, difficult to tell on a silent clip, but he's clearly seen cockwomble doing the same to other cars and should have been more defensive off the bat.
I'd suspect BiB felt it was more borderline than I do, and a poor response form the dash cam driver plus evidence he was already aware of the Fords erratic driving perhaps built an opinion that he was increasing speed in a passive aggressive move. 'If the driver had maintained course and speed, would he have hit the Ford'? If the answer is No then as much as it was a cockish move, they may have determined that punishing neither (and hopefully giving the Ford driver a b
king) was the best action.Ross_T_Boss said:
vonhosen said:
Don't think it's gone the way he hoped so I suspect he's going to punish you & not tell!
Youtube description: The driver was held for 30 minutes as the police deemed them aggressive.I suspect that is where the indignation comes in.
Viewing the footage - typical M25 nose-tail in L4 with L1/2 under utilised... often better and safer progress made there without exceeding the limit in these conditions. But I digress.
The Ford has come up the inside and then tried to manoeuvre into the side of him, without really being clear. After literally forcing his car into the non-gap he's hit the brakes. The dash cam driver hasn't taken obvious defensive action when one might reasonably have done so.
It's not unreasonable to me that one might initially back off and give a bit of horn entirely expecting the other car to correct course. Hitting the brakes wouldn't be my immediate reaction, but covering them would. If the manoeuvre is then continued you're already covering for a sharp stab to make space and avoid the accident.
Let me make it clear: the ford driver is an utter cock wobble, likely caused the accident and should IMO have been punished to dissuade such appalling driving in future. If he got away with it I'd have expressed some distain as well, but without any aggression.
Where it falls apart for the dash cam driver is that he appears to speed up once the guy starts moving over, difficult to tell on a silent clip, but he's clearly seen cockwomble doing the same to other cars and should have been more defensive off the bat.
I'd suspect BiB felt it was more borderline than I do, and a poor response form the dash cam driver plus evidence he was already aware of the Fords erratic driving perhaps built an opinion that he was increasing speed in a passive aggressive move. 'If the driver had maintained course and speed, would he have hit the Ford'? If the answer is No then as much as it was a cockish move, they may have determined that punishing neither (and hopefully giving the Ford driver a b
king) was the best action.
untakenname said:
I don't see the dcw doing anything wrong tbh, they are in their lane leaving the correct distance for the conditions in the m25, if you left the anymore gap you would just get idiots constantly trying to push in like the one in the clip..
^^ This.(Can't believe so many are disagreeing - probably just the usual PH thing of disagreeing with the OP regardless of the subject I suppose. Weird phenomenon)
monthefish said:
untakenname said:
I don't see the dcw doing anything wrong tbh, they are in their lane leaving the correct distance for the conditions in the m25, if you left the anymore gap you would just get idiots constantly trying to push in like the one in the clip..
^^ This.(Can't believe so many are disagreeing - probably just the usual PH thing of disagreeing with the OP regardless of the subject I suppose. Weird phenomenon)
vonhosen said:
What's wrong is the mindset of seeing space in front as yours & be willing to have an accident in order to try & stop others from using it. If you keep viewing the world of driving as simply trying to get one up on others around you, or trying to stop others from getting (what you perceive as) one up on you, you're doomed to a world of agitation, frustration & pain.
That sums up half the people on here and half that aren't.vonhosen said:
What's wrong is the mindset of seeing space in front as yours & be willing to have an accident in order to try & stop others from using it. If you keep viewing the world of driving as simply trying to get one up on others around you, or trying to stop others from getting (what you perceive as) one up on you, you're doomed to a world of agitation, frustration & pain.
<nods>Phew!! Thought it might have been me when I saw the thread title!
I limped a misfiring Alfa round the M25 recently - stayed in the LH lane as I was sure it was a question of when - not if - I would break down.
I actually had a pretty good run - passed (on the inside) loads of traffic in the outer 2 lanes - often with the lane to the right of me empty as well.
Got angry reactions from a few motorists!
Only problem is that the carriageway is completely ruined in places.
I limped a misfiring Alfa round the M25 recently - stayed in the LH lane as I was sure it was a question of when - not if - I would break down.
I actually had a pretty good run - passed (on the inside) loads of traffic in the outer 2 lanes - often with the lane to the right of me empty as well.
Got angry reactions from a few motorists!
Only problem is that the carriageway is completely ruined in places.
Ok guys it seriously wasnt me, the traffic at the time was moving at 40mph, the gap to me looks like 4 car lengths in the dash cam car, the driver siad he braked when the car contacted him although I would say doesnt appear to, the first clip is showing I agree 2 drivers in the wrong but is not the same 2 cars. The white ford refued to stop and I believe called the police because the driver of dashcam car followed him trying to stop him, I think he pulled over at a spot the police told him to as he was he said frightened, he denied any content or forcing into non existent gaps, he refused to speak to dashcam driver and the police took his details and sent him on his way after viewing the clip, they said an error of judgement, they refused to breathalise him and held dash cam driver for a period that he could not follow the white car. saying nothing to investigate.
Are we saying the 4 car gap is to small at 40mph? And again I ask if this had resulted in a pile up who would be liable? Driver of the white ford was a 60 something male and I do not think there was any 'incident' earlier on, it appears white ford man just drives like this all the time.
Edit to say that while I do not know the dash cam driver particularly well he does not strike me as the aggressive type, just normal middle age guy.
Are we saying the 4 car gap is to small at 40mph? And again I ask if this had resulted in a pile up who would be liable? Driver of the white ford was a 60 something male and I do not think there was any 'incident' earlier on, it appears white ford man just drives like this all the time.
Edit to say that while I do not know the dash cam driver particularly well he does not strike me as the aggressive type, just normal middle age guy.
Edited by Mr10secs on Monday 2nd April 13:33
Mr10secs said:
Ok guys it seriously wasnt me, the traffic at the time was moving at 40mph, the gap to me looks like 4 car lengths in the dash cam car, the driver siad he braked when the car contacted him although I would say doesnt appear to, the first clip is showing I agree 2 drivers in the wrong but is not the same 2 cars. The white ford refued to stop and I believe called the police because the driver of dashcam car followed him trying to stop him, I think he pulled over at a spot the police told him to as he was he said frightened, he denied any content or forcing into non existent gaps, he refused to speak to dashcam driver and the police took his details and sent him on his way after viewing the clip, they said an error of judgement, they refused to breathalise him and held dash cam driver for a period that he could not follow the white car. saying nothing to investigate.
Are we saying the 4 car gap is to small at 40mph? And again I ask if this had resulted in a pile up who would be liable? Driver of the white ford was a 60 something male and I do not think there was any 'incident' earlier on, it appears white ford man just drives like this all the time.
Edit to say that while I do not know the dash cam driver particularly well he does not strike me as the aggressive type, just normal middle age guy.
So you don't know either driver, but are privy to the conversations between them, and between them and the police - and have access to the dashcam in the second incident?Are we saying the 4 car gap is to small at 40mph? And again I ask if this had resulted in a pile up who would be liable? Driver of the white ford was a 60 something male and I do not think there was any 'incident' earlier on, it appears white ford man just drives like this all the time.
Edit to say that while I do not know the dash cam driver particularly well he does not strike me as the aggressive type, just normal middle age guy.
<re-reads> Hold on - you ARE aware they're two completely different incidents, right? Different surrounding traffic, different white Fords, different vehicles playing pushy-shovey with them...
At the end of the day, the Ford drivers simply didn't look... while the other drivers actively manufactured a situation. One of them is careless, the other is dangerous. And it isn't the way round you seem to think.
Mr10secs said:
Ok guys it seriously wasnt me, the traffic at the time was moving at 40mph, the gap to me looks like 4 car lengths in the dash cam car, the driver siad he braked when the car contacted him although I would say doesnt appear to, the first clip is showing I agree 2 drivers in the wrong but is not the same 2 cars. The white ford refued to stop and I believe called the police because the driver of dashcam car followed him trying to stop him, I think he pulled over at a spot the police told him to as he was he said frightened, he denied any content or forcing into non existent gaps, he refused to speak to dashcam driver and the police took his details and sent him on his way after viewing the clip, they said an error of judgement, they refused to breathalise him and held dash cam driver for a period that he could not follow the white car. saying nothing to investigate.
Are we saying the 4 car gap is to small at 40mph? And again I ask if this had resulted in a pile up who would be liable? Driver of the white ford was a 60 something male and I do not think there was any 'incident' earlier on, it appears white ford man just drives like this all the time.
Edit to say that while I do not know the dash cam driver particularly well he does not strike me as the aggressive type, just normal middle age guy.
To attempt to stop people getting into the gap in front of you is a fool's game. On roads like motorways, where often vehicles in adjacent lanes are travelling at not hugely different speeds, it's pretty much an impossibility to stop it. A vehicle can physically fit into a gap not much larger than itself. The only way to then physically stop it is to drive so close to the vehicle in front that the gap is smaller than the vehicle wishing to enter that gap or if a vehicle does try to get in when you leave a larger gap than that is to the try at that point to reduce the gap size or drive at that vehicle attempting to enter. Like I said, all a fool's game.Are we saying the 4 car gap is to small at 40mph? And again I ask if this had resulted in a pile up who would be liable? Driver of the white ford was a 60 something male and I do not think there was any 'incident' earlier on, it appears white ford man just drives like this all the time.
Edit to say that while I do not know the dash cam driver particularly well he does not strike me as the aggressive type, just normal middle age guy.
Edited by Mr10secs on Monday 2nd April 13:33
Better to leave plenty of space in front & if something enters that space to try & re-establish your original space rather than get in this silly dangerous game described above. The fear is that by allowing vehicles to do this moving in front that it is delaying you but that fear is irrational. There are vehicles both entering & leaving the lane ahead of you all the way up the road ahead & it's net effect on your overall journey time is absolutely negligible. Instead what people do is have an emotional response to what they perceive as a (in truth non-existent) injustice & behave irrationally. The driver who responds as the camera car did is not much different to the driver who headlamp flashes a car that has just overtaken them.
Stop worrying about the actions of others, other than to maximise your space from them in order to avoid collisions & leave what you perceive as their failings to the Police rather than trying to Police them yourself. If you can adopt a mindset of indifference towards other's failings & concentrate on maintaining your own safety zones it will all become far less stressful.
Leave Policing of others to the Police. If they get away with it this time then hey ho, that's like when you committed an offence & got away with it. They'll get caught at some point if they keep rolling the dice.
Mr10secs said:
Ok guys it seriously wasnt me, the traffic at the time was moving at 40mph, the gap to me looks like 4 car lengths in the dash cam car,
OMG it just gets worse! Acoording to the highway code, at 40mph there should be at least a NINE car distance IN GOOD WEATHER between the cars and double when raining. So what should have been an 18 car gap was 4!! But the OP, his friend (yeah right!), monthefish and untakenname all believe this to be OK.
All you need is another 47 morons like them and that's why there are 50-car pile ups on the motorways as soon as there is a hint of fog.
cmaguire said:
Having said all that, the concept of 'no further action' for that scenario whilst dishing out countless FPNs for trivial speeding offences does absolutely nothing to alleviate the contempt I have for the system.
Those who did 'no further action' would the be the same who would likely do 'no further action' for your speeding as well.Also they'd probably more likely have taken action if they had (jndependently) witnessed it themselves, rather than having a 'he said V he said' allegation/counter allegation to rely on.
vonhosen said:
cmaguire said:
Having said all that, the concept of 'no further action' for that scenario whilst dishing out countless FPNs for trivial speeding offences does absolutely nothing to alleviate the contempt I have for the system.
Those who did 'no further action' would the be the same who would likely do 'no further action' for your speeding as well.Also they'd probably more likely have taken action if they had (jndependently) witnessed it themselves, rather than having a 'he said V he said' allegation/counter allegation to rely on.
But back to topic, they had the video to view didn't they, so hardly a 'he said vs he said' situation.
The behaviour of the Ford driver is beyond careless, irrespective of the other camera car.
cmaguire said:
vonhosen said:
cmaguire said:
Having said all that, the concept of 'no further action' for that scenario whilst dishing out countless FPNs for trivial speeding offences does absolutely nothing to alleviate the contempt I have for the system.
Those who did 'no further action' would the be the same who would likely do 'no further action' for your speeding as well.Also they'd probably more likely have taken action if they had (jndependently) witnessed it themselves, rather than having a 'he said V he said' allegation/counter allegation to rely on.
But back to topic, they had the video to view didn't they, so hardly a 'he said vs he said' situation.
The behaviour of the Ford driver is beyond careless, irrespective of the other camera car.
vonhosen said:
It's still a tit for tat, counter allegations (video or not). The actions of both are idiotic.
So both are idiotic, yet 'no further action' taken.Meanwhile, get caught at 79 in the dry with no other vehicles nearby on the same road and it'll be SAC or 3pts and £100. How more idiotic is that?
They're fiddling while Rome burns in this s
thole.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff