Bad driving on M25
Discussion
cmaguire said:
vonhosen said:
It's still a tit for tat, counter allegations (video or not). The actions of both are idiotic.
So both are idiotic, yet 'no further action' taken.Meanwhile, get caught at 79 in the dry with no other vehicles nearby on the same road and it'll be SAC or 3pts and £100. How more idiotic is that?
They're fiddling while Rome burns in this s
thole.I may be doing them a disservice but it could be laziness on their part, or they simply don't see it as a good use of their time, as would probably be the case with the driver doing 79.
They are more likely to deal with what they see directly as it makes it easier for them too.
DocSteve said:
It is possible to leave a safe gap on any UK motorway without prolonging journey time. The driving in those clips is poor - by all, including the camera cars.
I find it interesting that when driving in some countries (some parts of Europe and SE Asia in particular) the attitude seems to be that if you pull off a manoeuvre which places you "ahead" then fair play. In the UK, drivers often take offence and will put themselves and others in danger to make their own point.
These situations are avoidable - don't let others' bad driving irritate you and instead concentrate on driving well. Sounds patronising and not aimed at anyone on this thread but I've learned from this advice given to me many years ago.
Automation of cars through adaptable cruise control, side scan, DSG/Auto etc. makes it much easier to drive our motorways - especially as it's not really possible to speed anymore on these specific roads due to average, fixed, mobile, and undercover speed cameras/police, and the newer 'shop someone using dash cams for the remotest indiscretion). Set the cruise control and let it go.I find it interesting that when driving in some countries (some parts of Europe and SE Asia in particular) the attitude seems to be that if you pull off a manoeuvre which places you "ahead" then fair play. In the UK, drivers often take offence and will put themselves and others in danger to make their own point.
These situations are avoidable - don't let others' bad driving irritate you and instead concentrate on driving well. Sounds patronising and not aimed at anyone on this thread but I've learned from this advice given to me many years ago.
However, you are totally correct on your point above. Someone is more than willing to place themselves in danger to prove a point.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&...
TooMany2cvs said:
So you don't know either driver, but are privy to the conversations between them, and between them and the police - and have access to the dashcam in the second incident?
<re-reads> Hold on - you ARE aware they're two completely different incidents, right? Different surrounding traffic, different white Fords, different vehicles playing pushy-shovey with them...
At the end of the day, the Ford drivers simply didn't look... while the other drivers actively manufactured a situation. One of them is careless, the other is dangerous. And it isn't the way round you seem to think.
Are you actually stupid or just trying to cause an argument or maybe cannot read that well as I state that I do not know the dashcam driver that well, ie he is not amongst my close circle of friends! And you come back with 'so you don't know either driver etc. Does the village know you are missing yet?<re-reads> Hold on - you ARE aware they're two completely different incidents, right? Different surrounding traffic, different white Fords, different vehicles playing pushy-shovey with them...
At the end of the day, the Ford drivers simply didn't look... while the other drivers actively manufactured a situation. One of them is careless, the other is dangerous. And it isn't the way round you seem to think.
Mr10secs said:
I state that I do not know the dashcam driver that well, ie he is not amongst my close circle of friends! And you come back with 'so you don't know either driver etc.
<sigh> YKWIM, and I suspect the vehemence of your protestation speaks volumes.He's apparently some kind of vague acquaintance, yet you seem to know him well enough to take his account at absolute face value and be handed a copy of the video.
Mr10secs said:
So its ok for a car in lane 2 to just drive into lane 3 twice with no concern as to what is there? Even worse when stopped he is unaware of any collision or doubtful driving, in fact he pulled straight off hard shoulder in front of an Artic causing it to swerve into lane 2. You guys seriously think this guy should have a licence ? Why would you think a competent driver would just carry on turning into a lane with no room. Theres actually another thread on here asking about very similar scenario where a car comes down a slip road and car in lane 1 moves to lane 2 but slip road car comes into lane 2, asking if a crash occurs who is at fault and the answer was car coming down the slip road. So answer this if the car in lane 3 filming had braked and got hit from behind who is responsible?
No need to brake. If these are the same incident the car behind the one originally was travelling too close to the silver car and the silver car too close to the one in front of it. Easing off the throttle when the white fiesta (?) started indicating instead of indingnantly and self-centredly holding position to try and stop it getting in front would have saved any impact and clearly been the better approach. The old fart taking my driver awareness course a few years back said something which has stuck with me: Try and leave a 2 second gap between you and the cars both in front and behind - a 4 second overall gap, if you will. If the car behind is too close, drop back from the car in front so the overall gap stays 4 seconds. Generally this has the desired effect of waking the driver behind from their tailgating stupor resulting in them dropping back, so everyone wins.
Fiesta driver was s
t. So was everyone else.TooMany2cvs said:
<sigh> YKWIM, and I suspect the vehemence of your protestation speaks volumes.
He's apparently some kind of vague acquaintance, yet you seem to know him well enough to take his account at absolute face value and be handed a copy of the video.
Actually yes, a vague acquaintance who is part of another forum that we all regularly meet up and go road trips to Europe etc, and yes why would I not believe him. He's apparently some kind of vague acquaintance, yet you seem to know him well enough to take his account at absolute face value and be handed a copy of the video.
Mr10secs said:
Actually yes, a vague acquaintance who is part of another forum that we all regularly meet up and go road trips to Europe etc, and yes why would I not believe him.
then tell him he is a dangerous twonk and should learn from this result because (mostly) it was HIS fault due to HIS aggressive st driving ?The Dangerous Elk said:
Mr10secs said:
Actually yes, a vague acquaintance who is part of another forum that we all regularly meet up and go road trips to Europe etc, and yes why would I not believe him.
then tell him he is a dangerous twonk and should learn from this result because (mostly) it was HIS fault due to HIS aggressive st driving ?The fact so many here seem to think otherwise perhaps goes some way to explaining why I see so much incompetent driving on a regular basis.
cmaguire said:
It was actually mostly the Fiesta driver's fault.
The fact so many here seem to think otherwise perhaps goes some way to explaining why I see so much incompetent driving on a regular basis.
Thats the way I saw it but we are clearly in the minority in that respect, but I suppose everyone has an opinion and mine was clearly either wrong or not correct according to the masses. I would only add that had dashcam car actively been trying to close the gap (which doesnt really look like it closes) then surely he would have actually kept the car alongside him and not let him get into a position where there was any opportunity to pull in front. On that note guys hope you all enjoy whats left of the Easter holidays and all back to work in the morning. The fact so many here seem to think otherwise perhaps goes some way to explaining why I see so much incompetent driving on a regular basis.
cmaguire said:
It was actually mostly the Fiesta driver's fault.
The fact so many here seem to think otherwise perhaps goes some way to explaining why I see so much incompetent driving on a regular basis.
Let's just re-watch those vids, shall we?The fact so many here seem to think otherwise perhaps goes some way to explaining why I see so much incompetent driving on a regular basis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLnP27Pj7Po
What d'you reckon the gap is between the Skoda and the black car? 1 car length? 2 at most?
0.07 - the Fiesta's indicator comes on, and he starts to gently bimble towards the line.
0.09 - the Fiesta's tyres cross the line, and the Skoda's brake lights come on - but he actually closes the gap on the black car.
0.11 - they're both side-by-side in L3, the Skoda's mirror damn near touching the solid white line to the right of the lane, and the Fiesta more in L3 than L2. They're closer to the black car than ever - and the Skoda's brake lights go out.
0.13 - the Fiesta's nearside tyres touch the L2/3 lines, and the Skoda's still alongside him - but he's gone back on the brakes.
0.15 - finally, the Skoda admits defeat, and drops back and into the centre of the lane.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6kSseT07xo
Absolutely pissing wet, seems to be less than a second gap between the camera car and the car in front, going by the lane dividers. Dark car in front in L4 not really closing on the car in L3.
0.02 - here comes the front wing of the Fiesta on the left...
0.06 - and here's the tail light.
0.09 - the Fiesta's no further forward, clear of the camera car, but starts to move towards the lane divider. Gap to car in front still the same.
0.10 - the Fiesta's completely in front of the camera car, and the tyres are clear of the divider line... And the camera car accelerates, and visibly closing on the car in front.
0.12 - the cars ahead in L3 and L4 are now alongside each other, barely two or three car lengths ahead of the camera car and Fiesta.
0.13 - we can see the Fiesta's centre brake light - off. VERY close to the front of the camera car.
0.14 - the Fiesta's completely in front, and brakes after he's nudged.
0.15 - the Fiesta pulls forward a bit relative to the camera car, but still on the brakes, and moves back to L3, now about a car length from the back of the car originally in L4.
Now, tell me how I've misinterpreted that, how this wasn't utter contributory wuckfittery on the part of the Skoda in the first clip and camera car in the second, and how the Skoda and camera car did everything they could possibly have done to avoid these situations developing...?
Edited by TooMany2cvs on Monday 2nd April 16:33
TooMany2cvs said:
Let's just re-watch those vids, shall we?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLnP27Pj7Po
What d'you reckon the gap is between the Skoda and the black car? 1 car length? 2 at most?
0.07 - the Fiesta's indicator comes on, and he starts to gently bimble towards the line.
0.09 - the Fiesta's tyres cross the line, and the Skoda's brake lights come on - but he actually closes the gap on the black car.
0.11 - they're both side-by-side in L3, the Skoda's mirror damn near touching the solid white line to the right of the lane, and the Fiesta more in L3 than L2. They're closer to the black car than ever - and the Skoda's brake lights go out.
0.13 - the Fiesta's nearside tyres touch the L2/3 lines, and the Skoda's still alongside him - but he's gone back on the brakes.
0.15 - finally, the Skoda admits defeat, and drops back and into the centre of the lane.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLnP27Pj7Po
Absolutely pissing wet, seems to be less than a second gap between the camera car and the car in front, going by the lane dividers. Dark car in front in L4 not really closing on the car in L3.
0.02 - here comes the front wing of the Fiesta on the left...
0.06 - and here's the tail light.
0.09 - the Fiesta's no further forward, clear of the camera car, but starts to move towards the lane divider. Gap to car in front still the same.
0.10 - the Fiesta's completely in front of the camera car, and the tyres are clear of the divider line... And the camera car accelerates, and visibly closing on the car in front.
0.12 - the cars ahead in L3 and L4 are now alongside each other, barely two or three car lengths ahead of the camera car and Fiesta.
0.13 - we can see the Fiesta's centre brake light - off. VERY close to the front of the camera car.
0.14 - the Fiesta's completely in front, and brakes after he's nudged.
0.15 - the Fiesta pulls forward a bit relative to the camera car, but still on the brakes, and moves back to L3, now about a car length from the back of the car originally in L4.
Now, tell me how I've misinterpreted that, how this wasn't utter contributory wuckfittery on the part of the Skoda in the first clip and camera car in the second, and how the Skoda and camera car did everything they could possibly have done to avoid these situations developing...?
Lets watch clip 2 again! the fiesta when contact is made is NOT in front of the camera car as the camera car contacts his rear wing/side of bumper and almost performs a PIT manoeuvre on the fiesta as you can see it starts to almost spin out.I would say he then braked which is why the fiesta did not spin outhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLnP27Pj7Po
What d'you reckon the gap is between the Skoda and the black car? 1 car length? 2 at most?
0.07 - the Fiesta's indicator comes on, and he starts to gently bimble towards the line.
0.09 - the Fiesta's tyres cross the line, and the Skoda's brake lights come on - but he actually closes the gap on the black car.
0.11 - they're both side-by-side in L3, the Skoda's mirror damn near touching the solid white line to the right of the lane, and the Fiesta more in L3 than L2. They're closer to the black car than ever - and the Skoda's brake lights go out.
0.13 - the Fiesta's nearside tyres touch the L2/3 lines, and the Skoda's still alongside him - but he's gone back on the brakes.
0.15 - finally, the Skoda admits defeat, and drops back and into the centre of the lane.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLnP27Pj7Po
Absolutely pissing wet, seems to be less than a second gap between the camera car and the car in front, going by the lane dividers. Dark car in front in L4 not really closing on the car in L3.
0.02 - here comes the front wing of the Fiesta on the left...
0.06 - and here's the tail light.
0.09 - the Fiesta's no further forward, clear of the camera car, but starts to move towards the lane divider. Gap to car in front still the same.
0.10 - the Fiesta's completely in front of the camera car, and the tyres are clear of the divider line... And the camera car accelerates, and visibly closing on the car in front.
0.12 - the cars ahead in L3 and L4 are now alongside each other, barely two or three car lengths ahead of the camera car and Fiesta.
0.13 - we can see the Fiesta's centre brake light - off. VERY close to the front of the camera car.
0.14 - the Fiesta's completely in front, and brakes after he's nudged.
0.15 - the Fiesta pulls forward a bit relative to the camera car, but still on the brakes, and moves back to L3, now about a car length from the back of the car originally in L4.
Now, tell me how I've misinterpreted that, how this wasn't utter contributory wuckfittery on the part of the Skoda in the first clip and camera car in the second, and how the Skoda and camera car did everything they could possibly have done to avoid these situations developing...?
Edited by Mr10secs on Monday 2nd April 16:32
Mr10secs said:
Lets watch clip 2 again! the fiesta when contact is made is NOT in front of the camera car as the camera car contacts his rear wing/side of bumper and almost performs a PIT manoeuvre on the fiesta as you can see it starts to almost spin out.I would say he then braked which is why the fiesta did not spin out, there is not a gap between fiesta and dashcam car or he would have nudged him straight in the rear!
Edited by Mr10secs on Monday 2nd April 16:32
TooMany2cvs said:
Let's just re-watch those vids, shall we?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLnP27Pj7Po
What d'you reckon the gap is between the Skoda and the black car? 1 car length? 2 at most?
0.07 - the Fiesta's indicator comes on, and he starts to gently bimble towards the line.
0.09 - the Fiesta's tyres cross the line, and the Skoda's brake lights come on - but he actually closes the gap on the black car.
0.11 - they're both side-by-side in L3, the Skoda's mirror damn near touching the solid white line to the right of the lane, and the Fiesta more in L3 than L2. They're closer to the black car than ever - and the Skoda's brake lights go out.
0.13 - the Fiesta's nearside tyres touch the L2/3 lines, and the Skoda's still alongside him - but he's gone back on the brakes.
0.15 - finally, the Skoda admits defeat, and drops back and into the centre of the lane.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLnP27Pj7Po
Absolutely pissing wet, seems to be less than a second gap between the camera car and the car in front, going by the lane dividers. Dark car in front in L4 not really closing on the car in L3.
0.02 - here comes the front wing of the Fiesta on the left...
0.06 - and here's the tail light.
0.09 - the Fiesta's no further forward, clear of the camera car, but starts to move towards the lane divider. Gap to car in front still the same.
0.10 - the Fiesta's completely in front of the camera car, and the tyres are clear of the divider line... And the camera car accelerates, and visibly closing on the car in front.
0.12 - the cars ahead in L3 and L4 are now alongside each other, barely two or three car lengths ahead of the camera car and Fiesta.
0.13 - we can see the Fiesta's centre brake light - off. VERY close to the front of the camera car.
0.14 - the Fiesta's completely in front, and brakes after he's nudged.
0.15 - the Fiesta pulls forward a bit relative to the camera car, but still on the brakes, and moves back to L3, now about a car length from the back of the car originally in L4.
Now, tell me how I've misinterpreted that, how this wasn't utter contributory wuckfittery on the part of the Skoda in the first clip and camera car in the second, and how the Skoda and camera car did everything they could possibly have done to avoid these situations developing...?
Was that you in that Fiesta?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLnP27Pj7Po
What d'you reckon the gap is between the Skoda and the black car? 1 car length? 2 at most?
0.07 - the Fiesta's indicator comes on, and he starts to gently bimble towards the line.
0.09 - the Fiesta's tyres cross the line, and the Skoda's brake lights come on - but he actually closes the gap on the black car.
0.11 - they're both side-by-side in L3, the Skoda's mirror damn near touching the solid white line to the right of the lane, and the Fiesta more in L3 than L2. They're closer to the black car than ever - and the Skoda's brake lights go out.
0.13 - the Fiesta's nearside tyres touch the L2/3 lines, and the Skoda's still alongside him - but he's gone back on the brakes.
0.15 - finally, the Skoda admits defeat, and drops back and into the centre of the lane.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLnP27Pj7Po
Absolutely pissing wet, seems to be less than a second gap between the camera car and the car in front, going by the lane dividers. Dark car in front in L4 not really closing on the car in L3.
0.02 - here comes the front wing of the Fiesta on the left...
0.06 - and here's the tail light.
0.09 - the Fiesta's no further forward, clear of the camera car, but starts to move towards the lane divider. Gap to car in front still the same.
0.10 - the Fiesta's completely in front of the camera car, and the tyres are clear of the divider line... And the camera car accelerates, and visibly closing on the car in front.
0.12 - the cars ahead in L3 and L4 are now alongside each other, barely two or three car lengths ahead of the camera car and Fiesta.
0.13 - we can see the Fiesta's centre brake light - off. VERY close to the front of the camera car.
0.14 - the Fiesta's completely in front, and brakes after he's nudged.
0.15 - the Fiesta pulls forward a bit relative to the camera car, but still on the brakes, and moves back to L3, now about a car length from the back of the car originally in L4.
Now, tell me how I've misinterpreted that, how this wasn't utter contributory wuckfittery on the part of the Skoda in the first clip and camera car in the second, and how the Skoda and camera car did everything they could possibly have done to avoid these situations developing...?
You appear to think pulling across in front of another vehicle at 60mph odd when you've barely cleared them in an adjacent lane and it is also pissing down is fair game, and it is entirely up to the other driver to accommodate your idiocy. At least you indicated, at some point.
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