Police Snooper gets £270 fine and Community Service

[Dibble]

Rovinghawk said:

I'm wondering how long she'll be suspended on full pay & rations whilst internal proceedings carry on- I suspect it will be several months.

How long does it take to convene a board to establish whether she has a conviction, conclude she should be gone & remove her from post? Surely even an incompetent HR department can do it in a day or so?

No idea on the timescales to be honest. I do know that, like everything, there’s a process that has to be followed. More of the boards are having independent, often legally qualified, chairs, which I think is a good thing. It provides oversight and reduces allegations of OBN. I guess some of the time taken will be to arrange the availability of all parties for any hearing and (again, I’m guessing), as with any HR/disciplinary process, there are timescales for service of papers/evidence etc. Better IMHO to stick to the timescales and it drag on a bit, rather than risk cocking up the process so that she can claim unfair dismissal or the like.

My own force has run discipline hearings before court cases and got rid of people before conviction. Obviously the burden of proof in a discipline case is lower than criminal court, but there would still be the risk if not convicted at court any dismissal/sanction could potentially be challenged later. That said, the former head of out professional standards unit used to be a PC on my team (he’s gone on to brighter and better things since!) felt this was an acceptable risk, because the actual figures didn’t support that view - people just weren’t successful or often didn’t bother challenging disciplinary hearings, even when not convicted at court, so the few successful challenges were more than covered by the savings made by getting shot of them early doors (I hope that makes sense).

I’d like to think she’ll be gone before too long. I’ve zero time for people like her in the cops.

[Greendubber]

I don't think it'll be long. Someone I joined with got convicted of drink drive, he was gone within about 2 weeks of the court hearing.

[Sa Calobra]

Evidence on Police systems. It won't take long. That's documented traces and unless she claimed she left her PC unlocked she still couldn't claim the miraculous coincidences.

If it was a allegation from other officer(s) it can be dragged out especially if the officer in question refuses to leave.

[Bigends]

Sa Calobra said:

Evidence on Police systems. It won't take long. That's documented traces and unless she claimed she left her PC unlocked she still couldn't claim the miraculous coincidences.

If it was a allegation from other officer(s) it can be dragged out especially if the officer in question refuses to leave.

Shell have left a trace on each and every useage. Certainly in my force- systems terminals lock if left unused for more than a couple of minutes - its a pain but stops them being accessed if left unattended

[Red 4]

Greendubber said:

I don't think it'll be long. Someone I joined with got convicted of drink drive, he was gone within about 2 weeks of the court hearing.

Timescales for disciplinary hearings can vary, especially without the benefit/ proof of a criminal conviction.

As an example, Cheshire Constabulary's Chief has been suspended since August 2017 - the hearing is due to start this July (there's been a bit of legal wrangling).

Place your bets ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-43...

For the benefit of carinaman - yep, he'll still be on full pay - due process and stuff ...

[Bigends]

Red 4 said:

Timescales for disciplinary hearings can vary, especially without the benefit/ proof of a criminal conviction.

As an example, Cheshire Constabulary's Chief has been suspended since August 2017 - the hearing is due to start this July (there's been a bit of legal wrangling).

Place your bets ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-43...

For the benefit of carinaman - yep, he'll still be on full pay - due process and stuff ...

She could well be quickly sacked by the Chief without notice

[TooMany2cvs]

Red 4 said:

Timescales for disciplinary hearings can vary, especially without the benefit/ proof of a criminal conviction.

As an example, Cheshire Constabulary's Chief has been suspended since August 2017 - the hearing is due to start this July (there's been a bit of legal wrangling).

Place your bets ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-43...

Big difference between the Chief Constable being accused of bullying, and a lowly PC getting caught sniffing her neighbours in the PNC.

[Red 4]

TooMany2cvs said:

Big difference between the Chief Constable being accused of bullying, and a lowly PC getting caught sniffing her neighbours in the PNC.

Which one (if the case against Byrne is proved) is worse ?

[Rovinghawk]

Red 4 said:

Timescales for disciplinary hearings can vary, especially without the benefit/ proof of a criminal conviction.

In this case I'd expect there to have been a conviction as she's been sentenced. Accepting Dibble's & others' comments regarding doing it properly, I'd still like to think that proceedings could be done within a reasonable timescale.

[7795]

TooMany2cvs said:

carinaman said:

So she's been given Community Service and a £270 fine.

And is also going to lose her career and 20yrs-worth of police pension entitlement.

I've had an ex look on the PCN and tell me things that only could've been gained from looking on the PCN.

I'm fully aware it is a big big no no but it goes on all the time. All the time.

[vonhosen]

7795 said:

TooMany2cvs said:

carinaman said:

So she's been given Community Service and a £270 fine.

And is also going to lose her career and 20yrs-worth of police pension entitlement.

I've had an ex look on the PCN and tell me things that only could've been gained from looking on the PCN.

I'm fully aware it is a big big no no but it goes on all the time. All the time.

Penalty Charge Notice?

[Greendubber]

7795 said:

TooMany2cvs said:

carinaman said:

So she's been given Community Service and a £270 fine.

And is also going to lose her career and 20yrs-worth of police pension entitlement.

I've had an ex look on the PCN and tell me things that only could've been gained from looking on the PCN.

I'm fully aware it is a big big no no but it goes on all the time. All the time.

No it really doesn't. In 11 years I've only worked with one officer that's PNC trained. Each check we do is done via an operative, who we usually wont know and wants the third degree prior to carrying out the check.

[Bigends]

Greendubber said:

No it really doesn't. In 11 years I've only worked with one officer that's PNC trained. Each check we do is done via an operative, who we usually wont know and wants the third degree prior to carrying out the check.

This doesnt just relate to PNC though. Every voters check, incident view, crime report and intel check, personnel check - the list is endless - all must have a Policing purpose and are open to misuse.

[7795]

Greendubber said:

7795 said:

TooMany2cvs said:

carinaman said:

So she's been given Community Service and a £270 fine.

And is also going to lose her career and 20yrs-worth of police pension entitlement.

I've had an ex look on the PCN and tell me things that only could've been gained from looking on the PCN.

I'm fully aware it is a big big no no but it goes on all the time. All the time.

No it really doesn't. In 11 years I've only worked with one officer that's PNC trained. Each check we do is done via an operative, who we usually wont know and wants the third degree prior to carrying out the check.

Apologies, maybe my terminology is incorrect. It was used to find out where I was living at the time and where my car was registered to.

I didn't take it further or report it as it was a friendly break up, but I did ask her not to look at my details again as I know the consequences of her actions. There was no reason she would've had to look me up...

[Greendubber]

Bigends said:

Greendubber said:

No it really doesn't. In 11 years I've only worked with one officer that's PNC trained. Each check we do is done via an operative, who we usually wont know and wants the third degree prior to carrying out the check.

This doesnt just relate to PNC though. Every voters check, incident view, crime report and
intel check, personnel check - the list is endless - all must have a Policing purpose and are open to misuse.

It does when the person I'm replying to specifically mentioned PNC (even though it was in the wrong order)

[ED209]

TooMany2cvs said:

And is also going to lose her career and 20yrs-worth of police pension entitlement.

She will not loose the pension that she has already built up. It can't be taken off her as its hers, she's paid for it. It will however be deferred probably until she is 60 and she will probably loose enhancements.

Pension can only be forfeited in very serious cases.