Driving high on coke runs over teen

[Gavia]

mac96 said:

She created the hazard, with no excuse for so doing. The fact that a driver might fail to avoid her was entirely predictable and does not to my mind make it their fault, if their driving was otherwise legal at the time.
If someone sails out from a side road into the path of a legally driven truck and are killed, it's their fault, irrespective of whether the truck driver might have avoided them had he made another choice of action. Seems similar to me.
Don't get me wrong, it's tragic and I feel very sorry for the poor girl. We have probably all done stupid things while drunk. It does not seem fair to blame other people for failing to save us from the consequences though.

If a car is parked on double yellows at the side of the road does that make it OK to drive into it?

[Pistonheader101]

Had similar on the way home one very early morning in the way back from the airport.

A chap passed out drunk laying on the road, albeit on the other side, no street lighting nothing. Wasn't apparent until I got pretty close.

I proceeded to park right next to him so he wouldn't get hit. Although it did look like i ran him over (had my hazards on).Passer by called for an ambulance.

Not sure why people think the middle of the road is the best place for a kip?

[TooMany2cvs]

Pistonheader101 said:

Not sure why people think the middle of the road is the best place for a kip?

They're pissed?

[mac96]

Gavia said:

mac96 said:

She created the hazard, with no excuse for so doing. The fact that a driver might fail to avoid her was entirely predictable and does not to my mind make it their fault, if their driving was otherwise legal at the time.
If someone sails out from a side road into the path of a legally driven truck and are killed, it's their fault, irrespective of whether the truck driver might have avoided them had he made another choice of action. Seems similar to me.
Don't get me wrong, it's tragic and I feel very sorry for the poor girl. We have probably all done stupid things while drunk. It does not seem fair to blame other people for failing to save us from the consequences though.

If a car is parked on double yellows at the side of the road does that make it OK to drive into it?

Of course not- it's not 'OK' to deliberately drive into an obvious hazard.

Not really comparable though is it? Every time anyone drives in an urban area they see and avoid parked cars, many parked illegally- an entirely predictable hazard. And too big to mistake for a binbag.

On the other hand, a human lying in the road is not a common or predictable hazard. I have not seen one in 40 years driving- perhaps I have been lucky.

If you would like another parallel- you may remember a famous PH thread (sorry don't remember the poster's name) describing life in prison following a conviction for causing death by dangerous driving.
Poster had been out for a hoon and lost control; they did not hit anything, but came to rest across the road. At that very moment a motorbike came around the corner in the other direction and hit the obstruction- rider killed.

Now, quite possibly the rider was driving too fast/dangerously, or could have avoided the stationary car had he reacted differently when he saw it. Nevertheless, car driver prosecuted.

That seems fair parallel-creater of an unpredictable obstruction (less unpredictable than a body) judged at fault at least in part. I appreciate we do not know if the motorcyclist would have also been charged with dangerous driving if he had lived- that's why I say'in part'.

[Gavia]

mac96 said:

Gavia said:

mac96 said:

She created the hazard, with no excuse for so doing. The fact that a driver might fail to avoid her was entirely predictable and does not to my mind make it their fault, if their driving was otherwise legal at the time.
If someone sails out from a side road into the path of a legally driven truck and are killed, it's their fault, irrespective of whether the truck driver might have avoided them had he made another choice of action. Seems similar to me.
Don't get me wrong, it's tragic and I feel very sorry for the poor girl. We have probably all done stupid things while drunk. It does not seem fair to blame other people for failing to save us from the consequences though.

If a car is parked on double yellows at the side of the road does that make it OK to drive into it?

Of course not- it's not 'OK' to deliberately drive into an obvious hazard.

Not really comparable though is it? Every time anyone drives in an urban area they see and avoid parked cars, many parked illegally- an entirely predictable hazard. And too big to mistake for a binbag.

On the other hand, a human lying in the road is not a common or predictable hazard. I have not seen one in 40 years driving- perhaps I have been lucky.

If you would like another parallel- you may remember a famous PH thread (sorry don't remember the poster's name) describing life in prison following a conviction for causing death by dangerous driving.
Poster had been out for a hoon and lost control; they did not hit anything, but came to rest across the road. At that very moment a motorbike came around the corner in the other direction and hit the obstruction- rider killed.

Now, quite possibly the rider was driving too fast/dangerously, or could have avoided the stationary car had he reacted differently when he saw it. Nevertheless, car driver prosecuted.

That seems fair parallel-creater of an unpredictable obstruction (less unpredictable than a body) judged at fault at least in part. I appreciate we do not know if the motorcyclist would have also been charged with dangerous driving if he had lived- that's why I say'in part'.

The driver parked on double yellows though. They created the obstacle with no excuse to do so, exactly as your opening line.

Are you in the habit of driving over bin bags in the road? I avoid them, as they could do a lot of damage if full of rubbish. I also try to avoid all other obstacles on the road

I think you’ve got a rose tinted view of the crash on Hartside Pass.

http://www.cwherald.com/a/archive/car-driver-jaile...

Your “innocent” driver overtook two cars on a blind bend and hit the biker riding the other way.

Edited by Gavia on Friday 27th April 19:07

[dandarez]

Talking of drink-driving - something I've never done - in 50 years. Why? My d. licence is too precious as I love cars and driving. End of.

Which brings me to this. The fking imbeciles on the roads today. Nothing shocks but a lenient sentence or what? Should have been custodial imo. F. unbelievable!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5660973/SH...

[mac96]

Gavia said:

mac96 said:

Gavia said:

mac96 said:

She created the hazard, with no excuse for so doing. The fact that a driver might fail to avoid her was entirely predictable and does not to my mind make it their fault, if their driving was otherwise legal at the time.
If someone sails out from a side road into the path of a legally driven truck and are killed, it's their fault, irrespective of whether the truck driver might have avoided them had he made another choice of action. Seems similar to me.
Don't get me wrong, it's tragic and I feel very sorry for the poor girl. We have probably all done stupid things while drunk. It does not seem fair to blame other people for failing to save us from the consequences though.

If a car is parked on double yellows at the side of the road does that make it OK to drive into it?

Of course not- it's not 'OK' to deliberately drive into an obvious hazard.

Not really comparable though is it? Every time anyone drives in an urban area they see and avoid parked cars, many parked illegally- an entirely predictable hazard. And too big to mistake for a binbag.

On the other hand, a human lying in the road is not a common or predictable hazard. I have not seen one in 40 years driving- perhaps I have been lucky.

If you would like another parallel- you may remember a famous PH thread (sorry don't remember the poster's name) describing life in prison following a conviction for causing death by dangerous driving.
Poster had been out for a hoon and lost control; they did not hit anything, but came to rest across the road. At that very moment a motorbike came around the corner in the other direction and hit the obstruction- rider killed.

Now, quite possibly the rider was driving too fast/dangerously, or could have avoided the stationary car had he reacted differently when he saw it. Nevertheless, car driver prosecuted.

That seems fair parallel-creater of an unpredictable obstruction (less unpredictable than a body) judged at fault at least in part. I appreciate we do not know if the motorcyclist would have also been charged with dangerous driving if he had lived- that's why I say'in part'.

The driver parked on double yellows though. They created the obstacle with no excuse to do so, exactly as your opening line.

Are you in the habit of driving over bin bags in the road? I avoid them, as they could do a lot of damage if full of rubbish. I also try to avoid all other obstacles on the road

I think you’ve got a rose tinted view of the crash on Hartside Pass.

http://www.cwherald.com/a/archive/car-driver-jaile...

Your “innocent” driver overtook two cars on a blind bend and hit the biker riding the other way.

Edited by Gavia on Friday 27th April 19:07

You know perfectly well that parked cars are a predictable hazard whereas bodies are not. And that you cannot deliberately drive into obstructions because they are illegal, which, if we are going to pick each others posts apart, is what you said.
And I agree that it's best not to drive over a binbag and I would avoid doing so.

On 10 PS ,sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear, but you have missed my point. I am not defending him- he was not an 'innocent' driver- he was guilty, having carelessly created a dangerous obstruction.That makes his acts comparable (in that respect only) to someone who lies down in the road.

However I must admit that I had not seen that newspaper cutting- it implies a head on collision which is not what 10PS described here. I don't know who was correct, but i wouldn't automatically believe the newspaper version. 10PS had no reason not to be truthful on PH- as I recall he was most definitely not trying to justify himself and was very much posting as a warning of consequences of idiot driving, and of the fact that if you kill someone whilst driving dangerously, the other guy's possible dangerous driving won't keep you from being charged with Death by Dangerous Driving.

[Gavia]

mac96 said:

You know perfectly well that parked cars are a predictable hazard whereas bodies are not. And that you cannot deliberately drive into obstructions because they are illegal, which, if we are going to pick each others posts apart, is what you said.
And I agree that it's best not to drive over a binbag and I would avoid doing so.

On 10 PS ,sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear, but you have missed my point. I am not defending him- he was not an 'innocent' driver- he was guilty, having carelessly created a dangerous obstruction.That makes his acts comparable (in that respect only) to someone who lies down in the road.

However I must admit that I had not seen that newspaper cutting- it implies a head on collision which is not what 10PS described here. I don't know who was correct, but i wouldn't automatically believe the newspaper version. 10PS had no reason not to be truthful on PH- as I recall he was most definitely not trying to justify himself and was very much posting as a warning of consequences of idiot driving, and of the fact that if you kill someone whilst driving dangerously, the other guy's possible dangerous driving won't keep you from being charged with Death by Dangerous Driving.

I think we’re pretty much agreeing now. I wouldn’t drive over a binbag, or a person, or into a car if I could avoid it, which I’d hope to be able to do all the time. The key point is that a competent driver should be able to avoid a hazard on the road. If you don’t avoid them then your driving isn’t up to scratch and a prosecution is likely to follow, especially where there has been a death.

I’d believe a report written by someone’s who was in court. I never saw the thread, but have seen it referred to a lot on here and I ride that road a lot too. It’s highly unlikely that you’ll drive / ride into a stationary object on it, at any sort of speed, but highly likely that some muppet will be in your side of the road. If it was how you describe it, then there’s little likelihood of a custodial sentence.

[mac96]

Gavia said:

mac96 said:

You know perfectly well that parked cars are a predictable hazard whereas bodies are not. And that you cannot deliberately drive into obstructions because they are illegal, which, if we are going to pick each others posts apart, is what you said.
And I agree that it's best not to drive over a binbag and I would avoid doing so.

On 10 PS ,sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear, but you have missed my point. I am not defending him- he was not an 'innocent' driver- he was guilty, having carelessly created a dangerous obstruction.That makes his acts comparable (in that respect only) to someone who lies down in the road.

However I must admit that I had not seen that newspaper cutting- it implies a head on collision which is not what 10PS described here. I don't know who was correct, but i wouldn't automatically believe the newspaper version. 10PS had no reason not to be truthful on PH- as I recall he was most definitely not trying to justify himself and was very much posting as a warning of consequences of idiot driving, and of the fact that if you kill someone whilst driving dangerously, the other guy's possible dangerous driving won't keep you from being charged with Death by Dangerous Driving.

I think we’re pretty much agreeing now. I wouldn’t drive over a binbag, or a person, or into a car if I could avoid it, which I’d hope to be able to do all the time. The key point is that a competent driver should be able to avoid a hazard on the road. If you don’t avoid them then your driving isn’t up to scratch and a prosecution is likely to follow, especially where there has been a death.

I’d believe a report written by someone’s who was in court. I never saw the thread, but have seen it referred to a lot on here and I ride that road a lot too. It’s highly unlikely that you’ll drive / ride into a stationary object on it, at any sort of speed, but highly likely that some muppet will be in your side of the road. If it was how you describe it, then there’s little likelihood of a custodial sentence.

Fair enough -and interesting that you know that road which evidently gives you an insight into likely issues there.

[Gavia]

mac96 said:

Fair enough -and interesting that you know that road which evidently gives you an insight into likely issues there.

Have a look on streetview on google maps. Hartside Pass the A686 from Melmerby to Hartside Cafe (now sadly a burned out shell). It’s a popular route for a hoon on bikes and cars, but not one that you’d want to go balls out on.

[anonymous-user]

Gavia said:

mac96 said:

Fair enough -and interesting that you know that road which evidently gives you an insight into likely issues there.

Have a look on streetview on google maps. Hartside Pass the A686 from Melmerby to Hartside Cafe (now sadly a burned out shell). It’s a popular route for a hoon on bikes and cars, but not one that you’d want to go balls out on.

Blimey I missed that Hartside Cafe had burned down, been there loads of times for a cuppa and to admire the view, even took my kit car up there for a blat. Hope they get it rebuilt.