S3 lotus esprit off eBay. What could go wrong. Read on.
Discussion
Durzel said:
No offence to Welshbeef but can anyone else back up what he is saying about how it's basically a diamond in the rough?
To the untrained eye it looks like a disaster zone, and the OP sounds like the sort of person who just wants a functional car, and isn't really looking for (or skilled to handle) a serious project such as this.
There is also the issue of how you feel about it too. The OP didn't buy this car knowing it would be a project, he bought it with expectations that it was something other than what it is based on the sellers (fraudulent) description of it. In that context he's probably looking at it with a degree of resignation, and isn't mentally prepared for what is going to be involved in getting it even up to the spec that he thought he was getting.
Think this sums my feelings up.To the untrained eye it looks like a disaster zone, and the OP sounds like the sort of person who just wants a functional car, and isn't really looking for (or skilled to handle) a serious project such as this.
There is also the issue of how you feel about it too. The OP didn't buy this car knowing it would be a project, he bought it with expectations that it was something other than what it is based on the sellers (fraudulent) description of it. In that context he's probably looking at it with a degree of resignation, and isn't mentally prepared for what is going to be involved in getting it even up to the spec that he thought he was getting.
I knew it would need money (2-3 grand maybe?)
Tyres,cam belt,service,consumables,bit of paint etc.
Relevant straight forward stuff, to make nice.
This however. . . . !
I told the guy I would take it back and even give him a good drink for the inconvenience.
Made no bones about the fact it wasn't anything like described, completely the opposite and i did not want the car.
As regards restoration, it would be my least favourite option, I wouldn't feel comfortable putting another 10-15k into it.
Which I'm estimating (with no great knowledge).
Think offering it back for sale whilst being honest and upfront and taking the hit.
Regards
Fy
flyinyam said:
Think offering it back for sale whilst being honest and upfront and taking the hit.
I think that's your most realistic option, given what you have said. 
Obviously go down the path of trying to get a return & refund, but if that fails then put it straight up for sale as a restoration project and chalk it up to experience.
It goes without saying that you don't surrender the car without cleared funds on the refund, of course.
Welshbeef said:
Collective knowledge - what it really worth as is?
Is it a £5k Bath for OP or is this nearing weigh in value only? If the latter surely he’d then be better off breaking - but I’m not convinced OP is up for that ball ache either
You seem very keen to see it saved so over to you WB, do the dirty deed, make Op an offer he can't refuse, you have already said there is good money in it properly restored.Is it a £5k Bath for OP or is this nearing weigh in value only? If the latter surely he’d then be better off breaking - but I’m not convinced OP is up for that ball ache either
Welshbeef said:
Collective knowledge - what it really worth as is?
Is it a £5k Bath for OP or is this nearing weigh in value only? If the latter surely he’d then be better off breaking - but I’m not convinced OP is up for that ball ache either
Considered the option of breaking , but someone with more skill, knowledge and enthusiasm could probably turn it round.Is it a £5k Bath for OP or is this nearing weigh in value only? If the latter surely he’d then be better off breaking - but I’m not convinced OP is up for that ball ache either
Fy
Welshbeef said:
Why are nearly all PH petrol head posters here basically saying what was a super car shouldn’t be cleaned instead send it to the scrapper.... have I just walked into Mumsnet?
I’m not sure why anyone would want to lose such a special car
ummmm..........Because it's fI’m not sure why anyone would want to lose such a special car
ked? 
Now I'm no Esprit expert, but I'm pretty sure the bodyshells don't crack like that above the door because someone leant on the car, or slammed the door closed a bit too vigorously! - My very basic knowledge of Esprit's tells me that that crack is a bad sign!
I also suspect that, to repair the bodyshell properly will take a bit more than a bit of fibreglass, some filler, primer and paint! - My monies on that crack weakening the structure of the car, and needing a proper, professional repair that will cost £££££'s.
Added to that, there's the DIY sunroof panel that needs sorting out, the severe corrosion all over the place, all of the mechanical issues that need dealing with, the need for a complete new interior, and a whole host of other repairs that are not yet known about, all of which means that the OP would have to spend a lot more to put the car right than it's ever going to be worth - In the words of American car nuts: "It's a parts car at best!"
If the OP has got the time to do most of the work themselves, and it's a labour of love for the car, then it might make some sense to restore this car despite the cost, but I get the impression the OP isn't looking for a long term project that needs major work and money spending on it, but was hoping to find an easy, "tidy-up and use it" car instead.
As it stands, at the end of the day, even someone with half a brain can see that this car is f
ked!I ran one of these back in the early 90’s and had someone hit the nearside front. The front section was damaged and unfortunately the chassis was also bent.
The car went to Steve at SJ sportscars in Devon who replaced the entire front end and fitted a brand new chassis. He is still in business and would 100% be my first call for an inspection/advice.
Over the years I also did a lot of work on the car and so I do have a decent understanding of it - that’s a restoration car for certain. Trying to do anything else will just be a frustrating bodge that never ends.
So, the first thing that a prospective purchaser is going to want is a better understanding of what the car is. So, if you’re going to sell it as a restoration car but with proper credentials and honesty get it to a garage and up on a ramp and get some photos. Measure the chassis alignment and then you can be sure it’s straight and true. Check the chassis for corrosion. Show the suspension components with the wheels off etc.
The boot panels come out very easily and leave you looking down over the gearbox - you get a much better view of the back end like that and you can make an easier judgement.
There will be an owner for this car. The worst thing you can do now is panic sell it. Relax, take a breath and learn about the car...
Best of luck with it
The car went to Steve at SJ sportscars in Devon who replaced the entire front end and fitted a brand new chassis. He is still in business and would 100% be my first call for an inspection/advice.
Over the years I also did a lot of work on the car and so I do have a decent understanding of it - that’s a restoration car for certain. Trying to do anything else will just be a frustrating bodge that never ends.
So, the first thing that a prospective purchaser is going to want is a better understanding of what the car is. So, if you’re going to sell it as a restoration car but with proper credentials and honesty get it to a garage and up on a ramp and get some photos. Measure the chassis alignment and then you can be sure it’s straight and true. Check the chassis for corrosion. Show the suspension components with the wheels off etc.
The boot panels come out very easily and leave you looking down over the gearbox - you get a much better view of the back end like that and you can make an easier judgement.
There will be an owner for this car. The worst thing you can do now is panic sell it. Relax, take a breath and learn about the car...
Best of luck with it
I mainly lurk and don't post much but even to me it's clear WB doesnt have a clue what he's talking about (in this case and most others).
OP, if you end up stuck with this, unless you are able to carry out the restoration work yourself in a fully kitted workshop, I would pass it on to somebody else. Even if it means taking a £3k hit.
Having restored a few old bikes with limited parts availability, the cost is much more than the obvious items. There's the tools you don't have, the small welding/machining/fabrication jobs, finding someone competent to work on the bits you can't, finding correct information and parts, buying used parts that turn out to be worse than the ones you already have, etc..
I'm doing one at the moment and spent £100 this weekend in bits and bats (degreaser, paint, a few non standard bolts and a tool to do one specific job). Those £100's quickly add up and a car like that can swallow a few K in things you don't even notice like brackets, bearings, seals, pipes and bits of trim, depending on what's missing/broken.
OP, if you end up stuck with this, unless you are able to carry out the restoration work yourself in a fully kitted workshop, I would pass it on to somebody else. Even if it means taking a £3k hit.
Having restored a few old bikes with limited parts availability, the cost is much more than the obvious items. There's the tools you don't have, the small welding/machining/fabrication jobs, finding someone competent to work on the bits you can't, finding correct information and parts, buying used parts that turn out to be worse than the ones you already have, etc..
I'm doing one at the moment and spent £100 this weekend in bits and bats (degreaser, paint, a few non standard bolts and a tool to do one specific job). Those £100's quickly add up and a car like that can swallow a few K in things you don't even notice like brackets, bearings, seals, pipes and bits of trim, depending on what's missing/broken.
Oddball and others what is so wrong with a fellow OH being glass overflowing full when it comes to a super car that could be saved a real barn find - unintentionally.
If everyone scrapped all these cars where would we be no one or very few people getting to own of these lovely supercars and prices out of everyone’s / all bar the speculators reach. The
If everyone scrapped all these cars where would we be no one or very few people getting to own of these lovely supercars and prices out of everyone’s / all bar the speculators reach. The
OP must have realised that at Sub £10k that was 1/3rd of the market price of the cheapest (going by autocars for sale currently) surely that in itself would ring bells of deal of the decade here or clearly it’s in need of a fair amount of work.
Similar to say being able to buy an M140i for £6-7k all up clearly something is unusual about that either a pricing error or it’s a major lemon
Similar to say being able to buy an M140i for £6-7k all up clearly something is unusual about that either a pricing error or it’s a major lemon
Welshbeef said:
Oddball and others what is so wrong with a fellow OH being glass overflowing full when it comes to a super car that could be saved a real barn find - unintentionally.
If everyone scrapped all these cars where would we be no one or very few people getting to own of these lovely supercars and prices out of everyone’s / all bar the speculators reach. The
It's easy to be overflowing full when it's not your money...If everyone scrapped all these cars where would we be no one or very few people getting to own of these lovely supercars and prices out of everyone’s / all bar the speculators reach. The
Welshbeef said:
OP must have realised that at Sub £10k that was 1/3rd of the market price of the cheapest (going by autocars for sale currently) surely that in itself would ring bells of deal of the decade here or clearly it’s in need of a fair amount of work.
Similar to say being able to buy an M140i for £6-7k all up clearly something is unusual about that either a pricing error or it’s a major lemon
You're barking. The car's a basket case and the OP was ripped off by the seller who clearly lied to get shot of it.Similar to say being able to buy an M140i for £6-7k all up clearly something is unusual about that either a pricing error or it’s a major lemon
Welshbeef said:
If everyone scrapped all these cars where would we be no one or very few people getting to own of these lovely supercars and prices out of everyone’s / all bar the speculators reach.
Buy it off the OP then, commit your own resources to it.I must admit, I'd be tempted, luckily the combination of lacking driveway space and spare pennies prevents me doing something silly.
OP thought he could buy a £10k project and put £3k or so into it to have a decent car. That's probably unrealistic, certainly with the "well I wouldn't start from here..." factor of this example. Assuming he's been left high and dry by the seller, taking a hit and moving it on, then buying a more reasonable one as a going concern, is likely to be the best way to get from here to there.
If we're misjudging the OP, and he has a fully equipped workshop and plenty of experience, fair enough, it might be viable, but I get the impression he's more wanting a car for sprucing up rather than a full rebuild.
InitialDave said:
Buy it off the OP then, commit your own resources to it.
I must admit, I'd be tempted, luckily the combination of lacking driveway space and spare pennies prevents me doing something silly.
OP thought he could buy a £10k project and put £3k or so into it to have a decent car. That's probably unrealistic, certainly with the "well I wouldn't start from here..." factor of this example. Assuming he's been left high and dry by the seller, taking a hit and moving it on, then buying a more reasonable one as a going concern, is likely to be the best way to get from here to there.
If we're misjudging the OP, and he has a fully equipped workshop and plenty of experience, fair enough, it might be viable, but I get the impression he's more wanting a car for sprucing up rather than a full rebuild.
But a 66%+ discount off the next cheapest £20k saving and outright spend of Sub £10k seems either no knowledge or even basic 2 min check of for sale prices in the market place.I must admit, I'd be tempted, luckily the combination of lacking driveway space and spare pennies prevents me doing something silly.
OP thought he could buy a £10k project and put £3k or so into it to have a decent car. That's probably unrealistic, certainly with the "well I wouldn't start from here..." factor of this example. Assuming he's been left high and dry by the seller, taking a hit and moving it on, then buying a more reasonable one as a going concern, is likely to be the best way to get from here to there.
If we're misjudging the OP, and he has a fully equipped workshop and plenty of experience, fair enough, it might be viable, but I get the impression he's more wanting a car for sprucing up rather than a full rebuild.
Welshbeef said:
Oddball and others what is so wrong with a fellow OH being glass overflowing full when it comes to a super car that could be saved a real barn find - unintentionally.
It’s ‘wrong’ because you are in no position to judge how much it’ll actually cost to restore, and whether that cost will ever be covered by what it subsequently will then be worth. Looking at the ads and guessing at what parts cost doesn’t count as being in a position to judge. Potentially throwing lots of good momey after bad isn’t some romantic notion of ‘saving a super car’, it’s stupid.
A rational balance would be to suggest the OP obtain an assessment as to how much it would be likely to cost to restore.
Welshbeef said:
But a 66%+ discount off the next cheapest £20k saving and outright spend of Sub £10k seems either no knowledge or even basic 2 min check of for sale prices in the market place.
I don't understand what you're trying to write.The OP had an unrealistic expectation going into this? Yes, I agree.
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