Police view of lane hoggers
Discussion
Johnnytheboy said:
Dear God, is anyone this thick? This has to be a wind up.
Queue in Lane 1 already.
People in L2 keep driving down Lane 2.
Merge at end. In a perfect world in turn.
Due to queue in Lane 1 forming first, Lane 2 rapidly fills up as well.
Your bizarre interpretation would only hold true if literally everyone else except one driver was in Lane 1 from the dawn of time.
I actually agree this should happen, I have no issue with it at all. What often happens is most people in lane 2 join lane 1 (Incorrectly). So the traffic in lane 2 dwindles and then there are only 2 or 3 vehicles that follow lane 2 to the end. Then people approaching the queue in lane 2 make a choice and again nearly all join the queue. Those who adopt lane 2, I am sure, know that at some point someone will have to let them in. That is textbook inconsiderate driving by any definition. Queue in Lane 1 already.
People in L2 keep driving down Lane 2.
Merge at end. In a perfect world in turn.
Due to queue in Lane 1 forming first, Lane 2 rapidly fills up as well.
Your bizarre interpretation would only hold true if literally everyone else except one driver was in Lane 1 from the dawn of time.
Graveworm said:
Andy20vt said:
So what? I like to make progress when driving and if I can make easy progress past other traffic, whilst still remaining within the rules of the road then I'll sure as hell take that opportunity. If you want to queue then that's totally up to you and not my problem.
Where in the Highway Code does it say you must joint the back of a stationary queue when there is a second perfectly clear lane in front of you to use?
The highway code does say that you should not change lanes to overtake a queue of traffic, but of course as others have said if already in lane 2 continue in lane 2 is OK. What the RTA says is that you should not be inconsiderate when you drive. Clearly that's where we differ, it's clear a lot of people think it's not inconsiderate. I fail to see how me gaining and others losing is anything but inconsiderate. As I said Surrey Police on the A3 did have a purge and prosecuted loads of motorists for inconsiderate driving for doing exactly this so it's not just my view.Where in the Highway Code does it say you must joint the back of a stationary queue when there is a second perfectly clear lane in front of you to use?
If I were stopped by Plod for doing that I would fight them on it all the way to the top Court. They are not experts in road management, no matter what they say - you rarely see TrafPol as expert witnesses in court cases concerning highway designs and layouts. They may have given tickets to people who were driving inconsiderately - regardless of whether there was a lane drop or not - but if they were prosecuting for people using both lanes then that is unforgivable and utterly wrong.
Not plod bashing, my brother is one, but just because they have a uniform does not make them the experts.
Graveworm said:
The highway code does say that you should not change lanes to overtake a queue of traffic, but of course as others have said if already in lane 2 continue in lane 2 is OK. What the RTA says is that you should not be inconsiderate when you drive. Clearly that's where we differ, it's clear a lot of people think it's not inconsiderate. I fail to see how me gaining and others losing is anything but inconsiderate. As I said Surrey Police on the A3 did have a purge and prosecuted loads of motorists for inconsiderate driving for doing exactly this so it's not just my view.
No problem, you carry on believing what you want to believe, but at the same time allow others the courtesy of doing what they believe to be correct without inuring your irrational frustration. There are winners and losers in life - some people choose to take an opportunity when presented to them, others are to scared, lazy, or just don't see it. It's entirely up to you which you decide to become.It's like those that just wont overtake a slower moving vehicle resulting in a line of several vehicles traveling behind a slow vehicle for mile after mile. If I'm last in line, I'll give those in front a couple of decent stretches of clear road to overtake. Despite the safe and clear chances, if no one makes a move (which is usual), then I'll either start to overtake in stages, or given sufficient visibility, overtake the whole line of traffic (fairly easy with 450hp). Yet often I'll get flashed by people in their supposed queue, a queue which I'd never agreed to be part of.
As a sideline, if you were driving along and I overtook you perfectly legally, but then a couple of miles down the road you caught me up, waiting at traffic lights. The lights turn green but then red again just as I pass so that I get through but you don't and have to wait - would that promote the same sense of pent up frustration inside of you?
GravelyIncorrect said:
Andy20vt said:
So what? I like to make progress when driving and if I can make easy progress past other traffic, whilst still remaining within the rules of the road then I'll sure as hell take that opportunity. If you want to queue then that's totally up to you and not my problem.
Where in the Highway Code does it say you must joint the back of a stationary queue when there is a second perfectly clear lane in front of you to use?
The highway code does say that you should not change lanes to overtake a queue of traffic, but of course as others have said if already in lane 2 continue in lane 2 is OK. What the RTA says is that you should not be inconsiderate when you drive. That is defined as no road user should be inconvenienced by you. Clearly that's where we differ, it's clear a lot of people think it's not inconsiderate. I fail to see how me gaining and others losing is anything but inconsiderate. As I said Surrey Police on the A3 did have a purge and prosecuted loads of motorists for inconsiderate driving for doing exactly this so it's not just my view.Where in the Highway Code does it say you must joint the back of a stationary queue when there is a second perfectly clear lane in front of you to use?
Edited by worm on Friday 22 June 09:06
Really though your issue is with the whole gain and loss thing and your burning sense of injustice that someone has 'got past you'......some sort of therapy may help here
Andy20vt said:
No problem, you carry on believing what you want to believe, but at the same time allow others the courtesy of doing what they believe to be correct without inuring your irrational frustration. There are winners and losers in life - some people choose to take an opportunity when presented to them, others are to scared, lazy, or just don't see it. It's entirely up to you which you decide to become.
It's like those that just wont overtake a slower moving vehicle resulting in a line of several vehicles traveling behind a slow vehicle for mile after mile. If I'm last in line, I'll give those in front a couple of decent stretches of clear road to overtake. Despite the safe and clear chances, if no one makes a move (which is usual), then I'll either start to overtake in stages, or given sufficient visibility, overtake the whole line of traffic (fairly easy with 450hp). Yet often I'll get flashed by people in their supposed queue, a queue which I'd never agreed to be part of.
As a sideline, if you were driving along and I overtook you perfectly legally, but then a couple of miles down the road you caught me up, waiting at traffic lights. The lights turn green but then red again just as I pass so that I get through but you don't and have to wait - would that promote the same sense of pent up frustration inside of you?
What pent up frustration. If I got wound up by driving in my career then I would have been long dead, I am the guy smiling and waving you into the space in front of me. I am unlikely to be the one holding you up by declining overtakes. I feel for you though with only 450hp though, do you have to ask your passengers to get out on slopes? It's like those that just wont overtake a slower moving vehicle resulting in a line of several vehicles traveling behind a slow vehicle for mile after mile. If I'm last in line, I'll give those in front a couple of decent stretches of clear road to overtake. Despite the safe and clear chances, if no one makes a move (which is usual), then I'll either start to overtake in stages, or given sufficient visibility, overtake the whole line of traffic (fairly easy with 450hp). Yet often I'll get flashed by people in their supposed queue, a queue which I'd never agreed to be part of.
As a sideline, if you were driving along and I overtook you perfectly legally, but then a couple of miles down the road you caught me up, waiting at traffic lights. The lights turn green but then red again just as I pass so that I get through but you don't and have to wait - would that promote the same sense of pent up frustration inside of you?
I am not trying to change minds, I am giving my view and supporting it where I can. I am trying to be civil. I am also asking for others to support their view with facts or evidence. So far it has mostly been supported by reductio ad absurdum or straw man arguments. I know I am in the minority on here so happy to call it a day.
Edited by Graveworm on Friday 22 June 09:41
Edited by Graveworm on Friday 22 June 09:47
Graveworm said:
I am also asking for others to support their view with facts or evidence.........
Says the man who tried to prove his lane priority theory with a quote from a small Driving School in Derby..........hardly a lofty position from which to cast stones....Edited by Graveworm on Friday 22 June 09:41
Car-Matt said:
Says the man who tried to prove his lane priority theory with a quote from a small Driving School in Derby..........hardly a lofty position from which to cast stones....
Thanks for proving my point, I also sited the Highways agency clarification from Pistonheads along with the DOT and HA manual. Hence straw man. Graveworm said:
hanks for proving my point, I also sited the Highways agency clarification from Pistonheads along with the DOT and HA manual. Hence straw man.
No you haven't, there is nothing in any official guidance to drivers stating which lane has priority as we have done to death above, you are incorrectly interpreting what you have cited to suit your view based around your interpretation of inconsiderate.Edited by Car-Matt on Friday 22 June 09:53
jagnet said:
Graveworm said:
The highway code does say that you should not change lanes to overtake a queue of traffic ... Surrey Police on the A3 did have a purge and prosecuted loads of motorists for inconsiderate driving for doing exactly this
Citation neededEdit to add: that he sees the two as equivalent both explains the moral outrage (to overstate a little!
) and his confusion. I’m sure we all object to a car bullying its way between lanes in slow moving traffic to ineffectually try and get a couple of car lengths ahead. Edited by DanL on Friday 22 June 10:01
Car-Matt said:
No you haven't, there is nothing in any official guidance to drivers stating which lane has priority as we have done to death above, you are incorrectly interpreting what you have cited to suit your view
Again straw man. You claimed that one lane is not ending and 2 become one. This doesn't happen. All sources clearly show that one lane ends and therefore you are joining another which is all that was about. No lane has priority but vehicles joining a lane have responsibilities. Happy to see anything you have to the contrary. DanL said:
e’s thinking about the guidance that you shouldn’t swap lanes in a traffic jam, i.e. when all 3 lanes are backed up. This isn’t the situation under discussion, where one lane is free and the other is queuing for reasons of their own...
What the code says is "Do not switch lanes to overtake queuing traffic" Graveworm said:
DanL said:
e’s thinking about the guidance that you shouldn’t swap lanes in a traffic jam, i.e. when all 3 lanes are backed up. This isn’t the situation under discussion, where one lane is free and the other is queuing for reasons of their own...
What the code says is "Do not switch lanes to overtake queuing traffic" Another edit to add: http://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/overtaking.html
I’m thinking of rule 268 - which one are you think of?
Edited by DanL on Friday 22 June 10:13
Car-Matt said:
I think perhaps your problem here is your linking of inconsiderate to 'gains' and 'losses', if you let another car into the gap in front of you that you should be leaving that is not a 'loss' its just using the road correctly..
What gap they should be leaving? The highway code says in slow moving traffic "reduce the distance between you and the vehicle ahead to maintain traffic flow" However if you are entering a gap that exists and no one is inconvenienced then that should be an issue with no one especially me. Where that doesn't or can't happen is the only place I disagree with the tone of this thread. Graveworm said:
Car-Matt said:
No you haven't, there is nothing in any official guidance to drivers stating which lane has priority as we have done to death above, you are incorrectly interpreting what you have cited to suit your view
Again straw man. You claimed that one lane is not ending and 2 become one. This doesn't happen. All sources clearly show that one lane ends and therefore you are joining another which is all that was about. No lane has priority but vehicles joining a lane have responsibilities. Happy to see anything you have to the contrary. page 115 https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen... lane lost, not lane ended, and zero indication of priority, you are interpreting blending as being inconsiderate as we've already discussed.
Car-Matt said:
You claim that a lane is ending..........theres no such terminology, on roadworks its lane closure or a merge its loss of lane, this is usually signified by a sign showing the number of lanes and the lanes ending with a horizontal red bar across them and a distance marker. for a lane closure.......... a lane closure is not signified by one arrow bending into another......iv'e already explained this to you and given you the government published guidance......no straw man, just hard fact
page 115 https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen... lane lost, not lane ended, and zero indication of priority, you are interpreting blending as being inconsiderate as we've already discussed.
From the DOT traffic signs manual Chapter 5 4.56:page 115 https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen... lane lost, not lane ended, and zero indication of priority, you are interpreting blending as being inconsiderate as we've already discussed.
4.56 When a dual carriageway road changes to a
single carriageway road other than at a junction,
traffic should be guided into the slower lane when
leaving the dual carriageway section.
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