Police view of lane hoggers
Discussion
Graveworm said:
So the blocking is stupid and wrong but "Merge in turn" can often get "Misinterpreted" as fly along a stationary line of traffic and then I will force my way in. .
I "interpret" it as, "merge in turn, but every numpty has decided to form a British queue, and consequently made the tailback twice as long as it should be, blocking other exits, roundabouts, junctions" (junctions and roundabouts on dual carriageways). I don't "fly" along a stationary line of traffic. I drive down an empty land that SHOULD be full of merging cars. I then filter in (not force my way in. If bloody minded people creep forward I just slip in behind).You choose to sit in a pointless queue, then don't get arsey when others choose not to be sheeple.
At our local Sainsbury petrol station, the problem with the sheeple queueing got so bad (blocking all exit roudabouts to the actual supermarket with the long tailbacks) that they marked 4, yes 4 lanes for queing to the pumps, with "QUEUE HERE" written in massive letters in each lane to the pumps. But still, the sheeple form one orderly line, for 8 lanes of pumps. I arrived to this a couple of days ago , with the traffic queing back and blocking a roundabout), drove all the way past the queue on one of the 3 remaining empty lanes (marked Queue here in massive letters) - to be greeted by a guy at the front who beeped and pulled out in front of me. I drove round him.
As another indicator of the British weird queing, people do the same thing when paying. 4 tills, one queue, running out of the door and into the rain outside.
RogerDodger said:
I "interpret" it as, "merge in turn, but every numpty has decided to form a British queue, and consequently made the tailback twice as long as it should be, blocking other exits, roundabouts, junctions" (junctions and roundabouts on dual carriageways). I don't "fly" along a stationary line of traffic. I drive down an empty land that SHOULD be full of merging cars. I then filter in (not force my way in. If bloody minded people creep forward I just slip in behind).
You choose to sit in a pointless queue, then don't get arsey when others choose not to be sheeple.
At our local Sainsbury petrol station, the problem with the sheeple queueing got so bad (blocking all exit roudabouts to the actual supermarket with the long tailbacks) that they marked 4, yes 4 lanes for queing to the pumps, with "QUEUE HERE" written in massive letters in each lane to the pumps. But still, the sheeple form one orderly line, for 8 lanes of pumps. I arrived to this a couple of days ago , with the traffic queing back and blocking a roundabout), drove all the way past the queue on one of the 3 remaining empty lanes (marked Queue here in massive letters) - to be greeted by a guy at the front who beeped and pulled out in front of me. I drove round him.
As another indicator of the British weird queing, people do the same thing when paying. 4 tills, one queue, running out of the door and into the rain outside.
I definitely don't "get arsey" life is too short. I am a huge fan of merge in turn; it is the most efficient way of doing things, in every way. It works when everyone uses the lanes equally. When that doesn't happen, which is frequently, then you get into the others have done something wrong so I am going to do something wrong as well; as you perfectly describe. It is the textbook definition of driving without reasonable consideration. You are behind someone, who is queueing, you pass them and then rejoin ahead; which means you gain a little, they and everyone else you pass loses the same amount. So your gain, causes actual inconvenience to many. Merge in You choose to sit in a pointless queue, then don't get arsey when others choose not to be sheeple.
At our local Sainsbury petrol station, the problem with the sheeple queueing got so bad (blocking all exit roudabouts to the actual supermarket with the long tailbacks) that they marked 4, yes 4 lanes for queing to the pumps, with "QUEUE HERE" written in massive letters in each lane to the pumps. But still, the sheeple form one orderly line, for 8 lanes of pumps. I arrived to this a couple of days ago , with the traffic queing back and blocking a roundabout), drove all the way past the queue on one of the 3 remaining empty lanes (marked Queue here in massive letters) - to be greeted by a guy at the front who beeped and pulled out in front of me. I drove round him.
As another indicator of the British weird queing, people do the same thing when paying. 4 tills, one queue, running out of the door and into the rain outside.
TURN would mean that you use both lanes and everyone keeps their relative position on the road. What usually happens though is the few like to think merge when my lane is about to end or stop.
Highways agency have recently clarified that, only where there are merge in turn signs, does the lane of traffic being joined not have priority. CPS have it in their guidelines. You can only merge into slow moving traffic, you can't merge into stationary traffic by definition; what needs to happen, is for someone in the lane of traffic having to slow down or alter course to accommodate the merging vehicle If you cause it to happen, it is bad driving.
Edited by Graveworm on Wednesday 20th June 12:19
Graveworm said:
You can only merge into slow moving traffic you can't merge into stationary traffic by definition, what needs to happen is for someone in the lane of traffic having to slow down or alter course to accommodate the merging vehicle, which, if you cause it to happen, is bad driving.
Stationary traffic also can't slow down or alter course by definitionGraveworm said:
Johnnytheboy said:
Not this s
t again....
Helpful thanks for moving the discussion forwards. t again....Graveworm said:
You are behind someone, who is queueing, you pass them and then rejoin ahead; which means you gain a little, they and everyone else you pass loses the same amount. So your gain, causes actual inconvenience to many. Merge in
TURN would mean that you use both lanes and everyone keeps their relative position on the road. What usually happens though is the few like to think merge when my lane is about to end or stop.
Highways agency have recently clarified that, only where there are merge in turn signs, does the lane of traffic being joined not have priority. CPS have it in their guidelines. You can only merge into slow moving traffic, you can't merge into stationary traffic by definition; what needs to happen, is for someone in the lane of traffic having to slow down or alter course to accommodate the merging vehicle If you cause it to happen, it is bad driving.
Don't be a pedantic d*ck, merge in turn means that both lanes have equal priority (hence the name - merge in turn). If you need it explaining in English then that means that cars in Lane 1 and Lane 2 merge alternately with equal priority. Whether they are moving or stationary makes no odds to priority or how this system operates.TURN would mean that you use both lanes and everyone keeps their relative position on the road. What usually happens though is the few like to think merge when my lane is about to end or stop.
Highways agency have recently clarified that, only where there are merge in turn signs, does the lane of traffic being joined not have priority. CPS have it in their guidelines. You can only merge into slow moving traffic, you can't merge into stationary traffic by definition; what needs to happen, is for someone in the lane of traffic having to slow down or alter course to accommodate the merging vehicle If you cause it to happen, it is bad driving.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 20th June 12:19
Your mentality of getting irate by seeing (with your skewed interpretation of the rules) someone else gaining advantage through doing something that you should have done yourself if you'd have been sensible smacks of exactly the sort of people who cause these extended single file queue's in the first place. I suspect the reason that these extended queue's form is because of folk like yourself making life unpleasant for folk who are just trying to do the right thing by using all available road space. Clueless folk often scowl at, or block, or act aggressively towards those who don't conform to their 'must join the back of a queue' ethos, making life unpleasant for folk who don;t follow the herd but do what the highway code says they should do.
Wouldn't surprise me if you're the sort self righteous c*ck who straddles two lanes with your vehicle to block anyone else getting past them. Grrrrrr.
bad company said:
Greetings from the USA. Here drivers overtake both sides and it works ok.
I wonder how that would work at home if they simply made it legal?
An American colleague told me that strictly speaking it's not legal to undertake on freeways in the US. Is it one of those things that varies by State?I wonder how that would work at home if they simply made it legal?
In the UK I honestly think it would be a nightmare - most drivers do 70ish and there'd be some doing 100+ weaving from lane to lane like a slalom.
Sheepshanks said:
An American colleague told me that strictly speaking it's not legal to undertake on freeways in the US. Is it one of those things that varies by State?
In the UK I honestly think it would be a nightmare - most drivers do 70ish and there'd be some doing 100+ weaving from lane to lane like a slalom.
The issue here is the 2/3 lanes of traffic all going about 70. On the m5 I often find lane 3 has more traffic than any other lane and there not going any faster than lanes 1/2.In the UK I honestly think it would be a nightmare - most drivers do 70ish and there'd be some doing 100+ weaving from lane to lane like a slalom.
Problem is as a nation we aren't good at multilane carriageways probably because its not part of the driving test.
if I am lane 2/3 apart from lifting my vision up and down looking for vehicles I overtake I will be looking at lanes 1/2 and seeing if vehicles look like they are closing on vehicles in front. I will then move out allowing them to overtake and not hamper my progress.
Only because I have had various driver training and learnt how to drive properly on a motorway using all the lanes. Despite my best efforts I have been caught in lane 1 by middle lane hogs who come up and sit next to me.
Also, another bug bear is slip roads, they tapper for a reason but many people aren't taught to use this to make a smooth transition onto the carriageway. They got to broken line and then try and dive into live lanes.
Finally merge in turn needs to be addressed as many drivers think these are some sort of que buster.
Have seen people forced into oncoming traffic.
surveyor_101 said:
Sheepshanks said:
An American colleague told me that strictly speaking it's not legal to undertake on freeways in the US. Is it one of those things that varies by State?
In the UK I honestly think it would be a nightmare - most drivers do 70ish and there'd be some doing 100+ weaving from lane to lane like a slalom.
The issue here is the 2/3 lanes of traffic all going about 70. On the m5 I often find lane 3 has more traffic than any other lane and there not going any faster than lanes 1/2.In the UK I honestly think it would be a nightmare - most drivers do 70ish and there'd be some doing 100+ weaving from lane to lane like a slalom.
Problem is as a nation we aren't good at multilane carriageways probably because its not part of the driving test.
if I am lane 2/3 apart from lifting my vision up and down looking for vehicles I overtake I will be looking at lanes 1/2 and seeing if vehicles look like they are closing on vehicles in front. I will then move out allowing them to overtake and not hamper my progress.
Only because I have had various driver training and learnt how to drive properly on a motorway using all the lanes. Despite my best efforts I have been caught in lane 1 by middle lane hogs who come up and sit next to me.
Also, another bug bear is slip roads, they tapper for a reason but many people aren't taught to use this to make a smooth transition onto the carriageway. They got to broken line and then try and dive into live lanes.
Finally merge in turn needs to be addressed as many drivers think these are some sort of que buster.
Have seen people forced into oncoming traffic.
I honestly don't think I have ever come across a 'merge in turn' sign in all my 10 years of driving. Most equivalent situations seem to be the right lane merging into the left lane like this part of the A3
I've always treated those as left lane has priority, but will generally use the right hand lane if it is empty
I've always treated those as left lane has priority, but will generally use the right hand lane if it is empty
Graveworm said:
Johnnytheboy said:
Not this st again....
Helpful thanks for moving the discussion forwards. t again....It has been discussed, dissected, and explained (at length, by the people responsible for installing and locating them) many times on PH over the last 10 years.
If you do a PH search for "APIS" you should find it.
Edit splenlign.
Edited by OpulentBob on Wednesday 20th June 14:18
surveyor_101 said:
Despite my best efforts I have been caught in lane 1 by middle lane hogs who come up and sit next to me.
I regularly do 200 mile motorway trips during the main part of the day when it's not too busy and that will happen a couple of times per trip, sometimes taking me down from 75MPH to the 56MPH the truck in lane 1 is doing. Of course if I pull out early, the MLM will rush up behind and sit there, as if I'm the MLM Or they'll pass me, and then slow down to lower than my speed. Once I get past the truck and go back to lane 1, I'll then be passing them on the inside.
Graveworm said:
You are behind someone, who is queueing, you pass them and then rejoin ahead; which means you gain a little, they and everyone else you pass loses the same amount. So your gain, causes actual inconvenience to many.
You don't get it do you? At what point would one decide that the merging stops and it is now a "queue" ? lol when it's 100 yards, 300? 1 mile? 2 miles?I'm not "getting an advantage over you". (pushing in is what you mean)
You are waiting longer because you sit in line, innapropriately, because you are not man enough to do what makes more sense. If it is an issue, why not pull out and follow me?
Andy20vt said:
Don't be a pedantic d*ck, merge in turn means that both lanes have equal priority (hence the name - merge in turn). If you need it explaining in English then that means that cars in Lane 1 and Lane 2 merge alternately with equal priority. Whether they are moving or stationary makes no odds to priority or how this system operates.
Your mentality of getting irate by seeing (with your skewed interpretation of the rules) someone else gaining advantage through doing something that you should have done yourself if you'd have been sensible smacks of exactly the sort of people who cause these extended single file queue's in the first place. I suspect the reason that these extended queue's form is because of folk like yourself making life unpleasant for folk who are just trying to do the right thing by using all available road space. Clueless folk often scowl at, or block, or act aggressively towards those who don't conform to their 'must join the back of a queue' ethos, making life unpleasant for folk who don;t follow the herd but do what the highway code says they should do.
Wouldn't surprise me if you're the sort self righteous c*ck who straddles two lanes with your vehicle to block anyone else getting past them. Grrrrrr.
This ! :-)Your mentality of getting irate by seeing (with your skewed interpretation of the rules) someone else gaining advantage through doing something that you should have done yourself if you'd have been sensible smacks of exactly the sort of people who cause these extended single file queue's in the first place. I suspect the reason that these extended queue's form is because of folk like yourself making life unpleasant for folk who are just trying to do the right thing by using all available road space. Clueless folk often scowl at, or block, or act aggressively towards those who don't conform to their 'must join the back of a queue' ethos, making life unpleasant for folk who don;t follow the herd but do what the highway code says they should do.
Wouldn't surprise me if you're the sort self righteous c*ck who straddles two lanes with your vehicle to block anyone else getting past them. Grrrrrr.
So Graveworm has explained in minute detail how he doesn't understand merging
LOL
If there's an empty lane up to the merge point on the right and a 1\2 mile queue on the left i'm using the right hand lane.
If traffic is moving at merge point then its moving and I can merge, if the traffic is stationary then someone having to wait to let me in isn't causing them to alter their speed or direction as they are stationary anyway so by definition they don't have a vector.
If the people on the left don't like having to wait for me to merge then perhaps they should consider using all the lanes so the selfish twunts don't clog up the roads......the tarmac is there for a reason, use it
LOL
If there's an empty lane up to the merge point on the right and a 1\2 mile queue on the left i'm using the right hand lane.
If traffic is moving at merge point then its moving and I can merge, if the traffic is stationary then someone having to wait to let me in isn't causing them to alter their speed or direction as they are stationary anyway so by definition they don't have a vector.
If the people on the left don't like having to wait for me to merge then perhaps they should consider using all the lanes so the selfish twunts don't clog up the roads......the tarmac is there for a reason, use it
Car-Matt said:
So Graveworm has explained in minute detail how he doesn't understand merging
LOL
If there's an empty lane up to the merge point on the right and a 1\2 mile queue on the left i'm using the right hand lane.
If traffic is moving at merge point then its moving and I can merge, if the traffic is stationary then someone having to wait to let me in isn't causing them to alter their speed or direction as they are stationary anyway so by definition they don't have a vector.
If the people on the left don't like having to wait for me to merge then perhaps they should consider using all the lanes so the selfish twunts don't clog up the roads......the tarmac is there for a reason, use it
What merge point?? You mean the end of the lane? Without signage that's all it is. I understand merging I also understand merge in Turn which is not the same thing. LOL
If there's an empty lane up to the merge point on the right and a 1\2 mile queue on the left i'm using the right hand lane.
If traffic is moving at merge point then its moving and I can merge, if the traffic is stationary then someone having to wait to let me in isn't causing them to alter their speed or direction as they are stationary anyway so by definition they don't have a vector.
If the people on the left don't like having to wait for me to merge then perhaps they should consider using all the lanes so the selfish twunts don't clog up the roads......the tarmac is there for a reason, use it
Look I really am not looking to change anyone's minds, the CPS, the Highways agency, the IAM and trafpol have a different view but the chances are no one will fall foul or have any grief if they do either.
Mathematically it's way better overall, the more people who use the outer lane, but it's not currently what is the "Right" way. Once there is a situation on the approach to the end of a lane where someone you are behind will have to "Let you in" it becomes inconsiderate.
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