Really dodgy wiring
Discussion
feef said:
First thing I did when I bought my house was test every light fitting and every socket with each of the breakers off in turn and note down the results. Fortunately there was nothing scary.
But I've been helping a friend out with a bit of DIY and that house is scary with spurs off spurs into the extension from the most 'convenient' wire, rather than the correct wire so there's some lights in the back room which are off the upstairs ring-main, some off the downstairs lighting circuit and the downstairs shower room shares power between the kitchen and the hall for the lights and extractor respectively.
Whilst this will provide a functional test it tells you nothing about earth-loop impedance and insulation resistance which are the crucial elements.But I've been helping a friend out with a bit of DIY and that house is scary with spurs off spurs into the extension from the most 'convenient' wire, rather than the correct wire so there's some lights in the back room which are off the upstairs ring-main, some off the downstairs lighting circuit and the downstairs shower room shares power between the kitchen and the hall for the lights and extractor respectively.
Dr. Tim, registered electrician.
wc98 said:
OpulentBob said:
I hadn't thought about it, but I run TV, PS4, WiFi, alexa, nest and the free view box from it, but to be honest that's purely down to the handy location rather than it being free 
Oh and for some strange reason, it's been installed rotated by 90 degrees so the cable coming from the bottom of the plug sticks out to the right. Go figure.
how long have you been in the house ? maybe someone was growing cannabis plants previously ?Oh and for some strange reason, it's been installed rotated by 90 degrees so the cable coming from the bottom of the plug sticks out to the right. Go figure.
Found a couple of issues when I bought my last house.
The previous owners had taken the wall lights in the lounge and had kindly left the live cables poking out of the wall. Traced to an unfused spur from a nearby socket (so protected by a 30amp breaker at the consumer unit).
Shortly after moving in I got a tingle from the washing machine (perfectly innocent, nothing crude
). The house had an overhead supply and no earth terminal was provided by the electricity company. In these instances, the consumer is responsible for providing their own earth. I traced the main earth cable and it just wasn't connected to anything. Whole house was not earthed!
This was all prior to Part P and I think the previous owner knew just enough to be dangerous.
The previous owners had taken the wall lights in the lounge and had kindly left the live cables poking out of the wall. Traced to an unfused spur from a nearby socket (so protected by a 30amp breaker at the consumer unit).
Shortly after moving in I got a tingle from the washing machine (perfectly innocent, nothing crude
). The house had an overhead supply and no earth terminal was provided by the electricity company. In these instances, the consumer is responsible for providing their own earth. I traced the main earth cable and it just wasn't connected to anything. Whole house was not earthed! This was all prior to Part P and I think the previous owner knew just enough to be dangerous.
wc98 said:
xstian said:
wibble cb said:
Years ago now, but a qualified electrician told my father he could remove an old piece of cable as it was not live, my father woke up the other side of the room, we learnt that even qualified people can be wrong, it’s nit just the diyers...
When ever someone tell a story about getting a shock, they always seem to be thrown across the room. I've had a few shocks, nature of the job. I reckon the day I get lifted off the ground, I'll be going to hospital. It amazes me how resilient some people are though.
after i and my plumber mate stopped laughing i mentioned how glad i was i waited on him to do it properly
TwistingMyMelon said:
When I looked round my house I recently bought I thought.,..Hmm the wiring doesnt look too great...I then found out the owner was an electrician!!
Coblers shoes and all that...My last house was owned by a builder, who has also done work on the plumbing and elec. Even his brick laying was fairly shoddy.
Daniel
OP, I have sympathy as have had some shockers in my 70s house myself.
But keep it in perspective, no one's got hurt, yes it needs sorting, but even correct wiring from when the kitchen was put in would almost certainly not be up to current spec now, so would need doing. And a complete rewire of the kitchen, assuming it is not miles from a legal and serviceable consumer unit, whilst all the kitchen out, is only going to be £750 or so.
It's just not worth worrying about. Get it sorted and move on. Oh and don't be surprised if you end up with more issues with the new wiring than the old, such as nuisance tripping etc, modern regs and heat, steam etc, lots of appliances we all have plugged in, can be a proper mare with the modern MCBs etc used!!
But keep it in perspective, no one's got hurt, yes it needs sorting, but even correct wiring from when the kitchen was put in would almost certainly not be up to current spec now, so would need doing. And a complete rewire of the kitchen, assuming it is not miles from a legal and serviceable consumer unit, whilst all the kitchen out, is only going to be £750 or so.
It's just not worth worrying about. Get it sorted and move on. Oh and don't be surprised if you end up with more issues with the new wiring than the old, such as nuisance tripping etc, modern regs and heat, steam etc, lots of appliances we all have plugged in, can be a proper mare with the modern MCBs etc used!!
OP, I have sympathy as have had some shockers in my 70s house myself.
But keep it in perspective, no one's got hurt, yes it needs sorting, but even correct wiring from when the kitchen was put in would almost certainly not be up to current spec now, so would need doing. And a complete rewire of the kitchen, assuming it is not miles from a legal and serviceable consumer unit, whilst all the kitchen out, is only going to be £750 or so.
It's just not worth worrying about. Get it sorted and move on. Oh and don't be surprised if you end up with more issues with the new wiring than the old, such as nuisance tripping etc, modern regs and heat, steam etc, lots of appliances we all have plugged in, can be a proper mare with the modern MCBs etc used!!
But keep it in perspective, no one's got hurt, yes it needs sorting, but even correct wiring from when the kitchen was put in would almost certainly not be up to current spec now, so would need doing. And a complete rewire of the kitchen, assuming it is not miles from a legal and serviceable consumer unit, whilst all the kitchen out, is only going to be £750 or so.
It's just not worth worrying about. Get it sorted and move on. Oh and don't be surprised if you end up with more issues with the new wiring than the old, such as nuisance tripping etc, modern regs and heat, steam etc, lots of appliances we all have plugged in, can be a proper mare with the modern MCBs etc used!!
mudster said:
Found a couple of issues when I bought my last house.
The previous owners had taken the wall lights in the lounge and had kindly left the live cables poking out of the wall. Traced to an unfused spur from a nearby socket (so protected by a 30amp breaker at the consumer unit).
Shortly after moving in I got a tingle from the washing machine (perfectly innocent, nothing crude ). The house had an overhead supply and no earth terminal was provided by the electricity company. In these instances, the consumer is responsible for providing their own earth. I traced the main earth cable and it just wasn't connected to anything. Whole house was not earthed!
This was all prior to Part P and I think the previous owner knew just enough to be dangerous.
Ooh, thank you for reminding me... Our bathroom had an end of cable poking out of the ceiling, tucked next to a beam. Turned out to be live whenever the lights were on... and just above the metal bathtub, fortunately the other end to the shower!The previous owners had taken the wall lights in the lounge and had kindly left the live cables poking out of the wall. Traced to an unfused spur from a nearby socket (so protected by a 30amp breaker at the consumer unit).
Shortly after moving in I got a tingle from the washing machine (perfectly innocent, nothing crude
). The house had an overhead supply and no earth terminal was provided by the electricity company. In these instances, the consumer is responsible for providing their own earth. I traced the main earth cable and it just wasn't connected to anything. Whole house was not earthed! This was all prior to Part P and I think the previous owner knew just enough to be dangerous.
Should I sue somebody? I could have been killed several times, and not even recovered in time for tea.
V8 Fettler said:
On commercial refurbs in the previous century, it was standard practice to cut 'n blow existing live cables where there was no obvious isolation point or diistribution board. I used to employ a labourer who enjoyed doing this with cable shears, can't recall a risk assessment.
lol, i have a mad sparky mate (a good one) that occasionally employs that tactic to this day. the look of surprise when it isn't expected is priceless though.someone up thread mentioned lighting wires out the wall.when i lived in tehran as a kid the previous occupants had removed their light fittings and left the wires bare. a few days after moving in i decided they would be a good place for my king kong action figure. my father found me lying in a pool of blood in the middle of the floor some time later. the shock must have knocked me off the settee i was standing on the back of and my head hit a marble table on the way down.
since then one mild belt from a three phase supply and an interesting one placing a live pump with dodgy insulation into a tank of salt water have been my only mistakes.
mudster said:
Found a couple of issues when I bought my last house.
The previous owners had taken the wall lights in the lounge and had kindly left the live cables poking out of the wall. Traced to an unfused spur from a nearby socket (so protected by a 30amp breaker at the consumer unit).
Shortly after moving in I got a tingle from the washing machine (perfectly innocent, nothing crude ). The house had an overhead supply and no earth terminal was provided by the electricity company. In these instances, the consumer is responsible for providing their own earth. I traced the main earth cable and it just wasn't connected to anything. Whole house was not earthed!
This was all prior to Part P and I think the previous owner knew just enough to be dangerous.
Current house. 1930s ex Housing Association. Previous previous owners bought the house Right to buy in late 90s. They knew enough also, to be dangerous.The previous owners had taken the wall lights in the lounge and had kindly left the live cables poking out of the wall. Traced to an unfused spur from a nearby socket (so protected by a 30amp breaker at the consumer unit).
Shortly after moving in I got a tingle from the washing machine (perfectly innocent, nothing crude
). The house had an overhead supply and no earth terminal was provided by the electricity company. In these instances, the consumer is responsible for providing their own earth. I traced the main earth cable and it just wasn't connected to anything. Whole house was not earthed! This was all prior to Part P and I think the previous owner knew just enough to be dangerous.
Kept getting the occasional nuisance trip. Often during rain.
Heard a ticking noise up on the wall outside and assumed it was some sort of insect/ animal. It got really bad so decided to investigate the black thing sticking out the wall. Expecting it to be some sort of moth or bee, it was actually the old security light wiring that had just been cut flush and was arcing all the time, like some s
tty Kentish Mortal Kombat cover.Welcome to owning a house.
[quote=Who me ?]
Problem with GU10 stuff is heat. Contact quality is not good enough and contact heat occurs, added to that lamp heat damages wiring to lamp contact and lamp fails. By then lamp contacts have semi welded to holder and it needs force to part lamp and holder. As an experiment, I've replaced all my GU10 50W mains spots with 50W equivalent LED units. Mains units lasted at best three months. So far ,after a year, all eight are still working.
Lethal absolutely fAdrian E said:
I've not found their quality bad, at DIY level. Replaced all the face plates in our early 80s house when we moved there in the early noughties, and were still fine when we moved out late last year, as were the ceiling pendants.
Got Schneider wall plates in the new house throughout, but the cheapest, nastiest GU10 LED downlighters all over the house that are driving me fecking mental - all spring loaded wiring and no screw terminals.....that and the quality bodge job wiring for the kitchen downlights under the cupboards with a mile of excess cable floating about on top of the units.....house built in 2015 (and not cheap).
What brands are considered dependable, from any of the qualified folk commenting?
Recently had a LA kitchen rewire and re socket. Sparky( large national firm ,working to LA standards) told me that for price vs quality, they reckon on :HAGAR stuff. Got Schneider wall plates in the new house throughout, but the cheapest, nastiest GU10 LED downlighters all over the house that are driving me fecking mental - all spring loaded wiring and no screw terminals.....that and the quality bodge job wiring for the kitchen downlights under the cupboards with a mile of excess cable floating about on top of the units.....house built in 2015 (and not cheap).
What brands are considered dependable, from any of the qualified folk commenting?
Problem with GU10 stuff is heat. Contact quality is not good enough and contact heat occurs, added to that lamp heat damages wiring to lamp contact and lamp fails. By then lamp contacts have semi welded to holder and it needs force to part lamp and holder. As an experiment, I've replaced all my GU10 50W mains spots with 50W equivalent LED units. Mains units lasted at best three months. So far ,after a year, all eight are still working.
king lethal Halogen GU10 spots in my opinion. Ive seen roof joists blackened. ive replaced mine too.KAgantua said:
Current house. 1930s ex Housing Association. Previous previous owners bought the house Right to buy in late 90s. They knew enough also, to be dangerous.
Kept getting the occasional nuisance trip. Often during rain.
Heard a ticking noise up on the wall outside and assumed it was some sort of insect/ animal. It got really bad so decided to investigate the black thing sticking out the wall. Expecting it to be some sort of moth or bee, it was actually the old security light wiring that had just been cut flush and was arcing all the time, like some stty Kentish Mortal Kombat cover.
Welcome to owning a house.
Electrical arcing can cause your TV signal to go blocky for a few moments. So if you are getting that and have a decent antenna it could be worth investigating if something like that is happening. It could also be kids on dodgy scramblers though.Kept getting the occasional nuisance trip. Often during rain.
Heard a ticking noise up on the wall outside and assumed it was some sort of insect/ animal. It got really bad so decided to investigate the black thing sticking out the wall. Expecting it to be some sort of moth or bee, it was actually the old security light wiring that had just been cut flush and was arcing all the time, like some s
tty Kentish Mortal Kombat cover.Welcome to owning a house.
Manners2001 said:
OP - I discovered this after my dishwasher conked out last week.
That blue neutral wire had charred black, so this had obviously been going on a while. A lose connection on the neutral could be human error, things happen. However, what really, really boiled my p1ss is that when I came to disconnect it I found that it was being ran from the 'upstairs sockets' fuse so I got a lovely little zap after 'only' isolating everything downstairs. We've only been in year and the chap who sold the house to us was a builder by trade that had completely renovated it.
I've now checked every socket with a socket tester, checked every fuse switch and will be paying for the some re-wiring. If I see the chap in the local I may have words.
Had somebody soldered the ends of the wires on that?That blue neutral wire had charred black, so this had obviously been going on a while. A lose connection on the neutral could be human error, things happen. However, what really, really boiled my p1ss is that when I came to disconnect it I found that it was being ran from the 'upstairs sockets' fuse so I got a lovely little zap after 'only' isolating everything downstairs. We've only been in year and the chap who sold the house to us was a builder by trade that had completely renovated it.
I've now checked every socket with a socket tester, checked every fuse switch and will be paying for the some re-wiring. If I see the chap in the local I may have words.
It used to be a thing years ago, tinning wires before using screw terminals, people used to do it in mains plugs too.
I was recently repairing a 3 phase refrigeration controller, and somebody had tinned the wires going into the main isolation switch, over time the terminals squashed the solder and became loose (solder also oxidises and makes a very poor contact material), the high current and the poor connection completely melted the switch and half the wiring, and where this controller was located it could easily have burned down the entire facility. The worst thing is, i've worked on these controllers before and seen quite a few like this, so some t
t of a designer clearly decided it was a great idea and did an entire production run like it.lyonspride said:
Had somebody soldered the ends of the wires on that?
It used to be a thing years ago, tinning wires before using screw terminals, people used to do it in mains plugs too.
I was recently repairing a 3 phase refrigeration controller, and somebody had tinned the wires going into the main isolation switch, over time the terminals squashed the solder and became loose (solder also oxidises and makes a very poor contact material), the high current and the poor connection completely melted the switch and half the wiring, and where this controller was located it could easily have burned down the entire facility. The worst thing is, i've worked on these controllers before and seen quite a few like this, so some tt of a designer clearly decided it was a great idea and did an entire production run like it.
Lyonspride - no, I don't think so, they just did a really poor job of tightening the screw down and didn't twist the individual copper strands!It used to be a thing years ago, tinning wires before using screw terminals, people used to do it in mains plugs too.
I was recently repairing a 3 phase refrigeration controller, and somebody had tinned the wires going into the main isolation switch, over time the terminals squashed the solder and became loose (solder also oxidises and makes a very poor contact material), the high current and the poor connection completely melted the switch and half the wiring, and where this controller was located it could easily have burned down the entire facility. The worst thing is, i've worked on these controllers before and seen quite a few like this, so some t
t of a designer clearly decided it was a great idea and did an entire production run like it.
Pica-Pica said:
In the past fuses were there to save the cables from melting. Nowadays Residual Current Devices (RCDs) and Miniature Circuit Breakers (MCBs) additionally protect the individual from shock.
When I was about 8, and plugs did not have insulated pins, I got a 240v shock. I assure you I am very much alive. As I said re-wire with full RCD protection.
https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/guides-an...
And that's the daft thing. Working with electricity in a domestic environment has got so much safer, yet the regs have got so much more restrictive.When I was about 8, and plugs did not have insulated pins, I got a 240v shock. I assure you I am very much alive. As I said re-wire with full RCD protection.
https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/guides-an...
Still, it's the way of things. i didn't used to test for dead before earthing at 11kV, but I do now. We have all become so risk averse.
I remember working in a dodgy devon hotel in the bar, wet hands from serving ale, I reached down to turn off the plug in heater, which didnt have a back on the plug, touched the live and ooouuucccchhh!! That would buy me a nice little holiday now a days!! Instead I had a couple of brandys and carried on she shift!
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