Rejecting used main dealer car post 30 days. Anyone done it?
Discussion
Tony-Danger said:
I just had a car replaced in the past week after almost 12 weeks of ownership after there were issues within and after the 30 days.
Simple fact is, within the first 14 days you can reject for any reason. Within 30 you can reject on any fault. After 30 days but within 6 months it is the dealers responsibility to fix it. The law presumes the fault was there at purchase. You have to give them the chance of fixing first, if they don't manage that, you can reject for replacement or refund.
If you were sold the car and misled (for example, not being told it had an engine swap), you may be able to reject.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Consumer rights here: https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/the...
Good luck. Stick to your guns and you will win.
you are saying I can just change my mind on any car purchase within 2 weeks and ask for my money back? Well that's a new 'fact' for me.Simple fact is, within the first 14 days you can reject for any reason. Within 30 you can reject on any fault. After 30 days but within 6 months it is the dealers responsibility to fix it. The law presumes the fault was there at purchase. You have to give them the chance of fixing first, if they don't manage that, you can reject for replacement or refund.
If you were sold the car and misled (for example, not being told it had an engine swap), you may be able to reject.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Consumer rights here: https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/the...
Good luck. Stick to your guns and you will win.
OverSteery said:
you are saying I can just change my mind on any car purchase within 2 weeks and ask for my money back? Well that's a new 'fact' for me.
Sorry, I mistyped, only if the car was purchased under finance, as you can back out of the finance agreement. That's what I was lead to believe anyway while I was looking for advice to reject my i40. Also it depends where you buy from. My paperwork from Arnold Clark had a 14 day return policy in it.
Trevor555 said:
You need to get some proper advice.
But my understanding to get a full refund is :-
1. It has to be miss described.
2. They with held information that may have altered your decision about buying the car (used engine recently fitted)
3. A fault within 30 days of ownership.
To aid your case you'll use the "not in a condition expected of an approved used car from a main dealer" but that bit is probably not an absolute reason for rejection. As already said, it's just manufacturers blurb to give peace of mind.
If it was me I'd lean heavily on point number 2.
"If you'd have mentioned you'd just fitted a used engine I wouldn't have bought it"
These are only my suggestions, please get some proper legal advice.
I'll post the reasons I stated in my rejection letter later.But my understanding to get a full refund is :-
1. It has to be miss described.
2. They with held information that may have altered your decision about buying the car (used engine recently fitted)
3. A fault within 30 days of ownership.
To aid your case you'll use the "not in a condition expected of an approved used car from a main dealer" but that bit is probably not an absolute reason for rejection. As already said, it's just manufacturers blurb to give peace of mind.
If it was me I'd lean heavily on point number 2.
"If you'd have mentioned you'd just fitted a used engine I wouldn't have bought it"
These are only my suggestions, please get some proper legal advice.
By eventually offering £1000 he will probably argue that he is clearing 1 and 3 (fsh and faults). Its what I asked for over a month ago and I'd have accepted it and been happy at the time.
The ultimate irony is that in trying to wriggle out of that, his service manager inadvertently gave me the info about the replacement engine.
That really pissed me off, and I don't see how he can get out of that (2).
What do you actually "know" about the engine situation? (rather than hearsay)
Do you know that the engine was actually swapped (did you check the numbers?)
Do you actually know when?
Do you actually know why?
The advice on here about taking everything you are told by the daeler's people with a pinch of salt also includes what they might have told you about the engine. You need to check it all for yourself before heading off to court.
If the engine was swapped, you will need to prove to the judge why it was reasonable for you to assume that a 7 year old car with 60,000 miles that you have paid about a quarter of the new price for should have had anything better, or different.
The test is what was reasonable given the age mileage and price. ALL of the inconvenience and cost resulting from the distance to the dealer is your responsibilty, not his. And, finally, none of the problems with the car that you complained about in your original post are engine-related.
Do you know that the engine was actually swapped (did you check the numbers?)
Do you actually know when?
Do you actually know why?
The advice on here about taking everything you are told by the daeler's people with a pinch of salt also includes what they might have told you about the engine. You need to check it all for yourself before heading off to court.
If the engine was swapped, you will need to prove to the judge why it was reasonable for you to assume that a 7 year old car with 60,000 miles that you have paid about a quarter of the new price for should have had anything better, or different.
The test is what was reasonable given the age mileage and price. ALL of the inconvenience and cost resulting from the distance to the dealer is your responsibilty, not his. And, finally, none of the problems with the car that you complained about in your original post are engine-related.
Edited by hutchst on Saturday 28th July 08:30
My BMW experience for balance.
Bought a 640 cab blind but told sales guy I’d have his knackers for clackers if I travel 200 miles of mainly crap roads to be disappointed.
On arrival one of 5 cameras didn’t work, the mats were eBay and wind deflector missing.
They gave me a brand new 6 something to go home on, did all the work, supplied the parts and truth be told I didn’t really mind it was a great price and a lovely car.
Bought a 640 cab blind but told sales guy I’d have his knackers for clackers if I travel 200 miles of mainly crap roads to be disappointed.
On arrival one of 5 cameras didn’t work, the mats were eBay and wind deflector missing.
They gave me a brand new 6 something to go home on, did all the work, supplied the parts and truth be told I didn’t really mind it was a great price and a lovely car.
@hutchst
The service manager sent me a scan of the job log of everything done to the car in order by them, to demonstrate that the pre sales check was completed.
On this log it's states the mileage (10 miles or so before I purchased) with two lines:
'Investigate rough running' £0
'replacement engine': £2100.
Another scan is an email from the sales guy with 'engine replaced' written on it in pen.
The service manager sent me a scan of the job log of everything done to the car in order by them, to demonstrate that the pre sales check was completed.
On this log it's states the mileage (10 miles or so before I purchased) with two lines:
'Investigate rough running' £0
'replacement engine': £2100.
Another scan is an email from the sales guy with 'engine replaced' written on it in pen.
Copy paste from my letter of rejection:
Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 goods you supply must be of ‘Satisfactory Quality’, ‘Fit For Purpose’ & ‘As Described’.
I am now formally rejecting the car, and requesting that you give me a full refund including road tax.
My grounds for rejecting are:
Multiple serious issues were present at the time of sale and inexplicably not fixed prior to delivery. The car is not of ‘Satisfactory Quality’.
Despite giving xxxx multiple opportunities (and time) to resolve the issues, they have failed to propose a plan to resolve those issues, that does not cost me substantial time and money. Further inspections of the car 250 miles away at xxxcxc – with no guarantee of resolution, would cause me ‘significant cost and inconvenience’.
The lack of appropriate servicing (according to manufacturer’s recommendations) will negatively affect the warranty status of the car and its value. The car was ‘not as described’ as per the Mazda Approved Car Scheme.
The replacement engine is of unknown parentage, rendering the mileage on the car invalid, and negatively affecting the value of the car. Resolving this via ‘repair or replacement is impossible’.
The replacement engine, although fitted by xxxcxc only a few weeks prior to sale, was not disclosed to me. I would not have bought the car had this information been disclosed. The car was ‘not as described’ in the advertising.
Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 goods you supply must be of ‘Satisfactory Quality’, ‘Fit For Purpose’ & ‘As Described’.
I am now formally rejecting the car, and requesting that you give me a full refund including road tax.
My grounds for rejecting are:
Multiple serious issues were present at the time of sale and inexplicably not fixed prior to delivery. The car is not of ‘Satisfactory Quality’.
Despite giving xxxx multiple opportunities (and time) to resolve the issues, they have failed to propose a plan to resolve those issues, that does not cost me substantial time and money. Further inspections of the car 250 miles away at xxxcxc – with no guarantee of resolution, would cause me ‘significant cost and inconvenience’.
The lack of appropriate servicing (according to manufacturer’s recommendations) will negatively affect the warranty status of the car and its value. The car was ‘not as described’ as per the Mazda Approved Car Scheme.
The replacement engine is of unknown parentage, rendering the mileage on the car invalid, and negatively affecting the value of the car. Resolving this via ‘repair or replacement is impossible’.
The replacement engine, although fitted by xxxcxc only a few weeks prior to sale, was not disclosed to me. I would not have bought the car had this information been disclosed. The car was ‘not as described’ in the advertising.
Edited by Chimune on Saturday 28th July 13:31
OverSteery said:
Tony-Danger said:
I just had a car replaced in the past week after almost 12 weeks of ownership after there were issues within and after the 30 days.
Simple fact is, within the first 14 days you can reject for any reason. Within 30 you can reject on any fault. After 30 days but within 6 months it is the dealers responsibility to fix it. The law presumes the fault was there at purchase. You have to give them the chance of fixing first, if they don't manage that, you can reject for replacement or refund.
If you were sold the car and misled (for example, not being told it had an engine swap), you may be able to reject.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Consumer rights here: https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/the...
Good luck. Stick to your guns and you will win.
you are saying I can just change my mind on any car purchase within 2 weeks and ask for my money back? Well that's a new 'fact' for me.Simple fact is, within the first 14 days you can reject for any reason. Within 30 you can reject on any fault. After 30 days but within 6 months it is the dealers responsibility to fix it. The law presumes the fault was there at purchase. You have to give them the chance of fixing first, if they don't manage that, you can reject for replacement or refund.
If you were sold the car and misled (for example, not being told it had an engine swap), you may be able to reject.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Consumer rights here: https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/the...
Good luck. Stick to your guns and you will win.
Tony-Danger said:
I just had a car replaced in the past week after almost 12 weeks of ownership after there were issues within and after the 30 days.
Simple fact is, within the first 14 days you can reject for any reason. Within 30 you can reject on any fault. After 30 days but within 6 months it is the dealers responsibility to fix it. The law presumes the fault was there at purchase. You have to give them the chance of fixing first, if they don't manage that, you can reject for replacement or refund.
If you were sold the car and misled (for example, not being told it had an engine swap), you may be able to reject.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Consumer rights here: https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/the...
Good luck. Stick to your guns and you will win.
You are misleading people with the bit in bold. Simple fact is, within the first 14 days you can reject for any reason. Within 30 you can reject on any fault. After 30 days but within 6 months it is the dealers responsibility to fix it. The law presumes the fault was there at purchase. You have to give them the chance of fixing first, if they don't manage that, you can reject for replacement or refund.
If you were sold the car and misled (for example, not being told it had an engine swap), you may be able to reject.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Consumer rights here: https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/the...
Good luck. Stick to your guns and you will win.
If I wreck the car within the first 14 days I can just reject? Or I drive it 4000 miles in a week? Within 30 days, if the car was £500, has 200k miles and never had a new clutch and it starts slipping the dealer has to put a new one in? Really? Same for any fault within the first 6 months. Context is everything and each problem car will have a unique set of circumstances.
Chimune said:
The replacement engine, although fitted by xxxcxc only a few weeks prior to sale, was not disclosed to me. I would not have bought the car had this information been disclosed. The car was ‘not as described’ in the advertising.
This may be your best card: have a look a CPUTR Section 6(1)(a).The remedy in covered by the 2014 Amendment Regs Section 27E.
The time frame for unwinding is longer than the CRA 2015.
DSLiverpool said:
My BMW experience for balance.
Bought a 640 cab blind but told sales guy I’d have his knackers for clackers if I travel 200 miles of mainly crap roads to be disappointed..........
And that's the exact point at which the sales guy should have said "Goodbye!", and put the phone down on you!Bought a 640 cab blind but told sales guy I’d have his knackers for clackers if I travel 200 miles of mainly crap roads to be disappointed..........
There's no way I'd do business with anyone who makes that sort of statement/threat to me!
4rephill said:
DSLiverpool said:
My BMW experience for balance.
Bought a 640 cab blind but told sales guy I’d have his knackers for clackers if I travel 200 miles of mainly crap roads to be disappointed..........
And that's the exact point at which the sales guy should have said "Goodbye!", and put the phone down on you!Bought a 640 cab blind but told sales guy I’d have his knackers for clackers if I travel 200 miles of mainly crap roads to be disappointed..........
There's no way I'd do business with anyone who makes that sort of statement/threat to me!
andymc said:
none of the others will warrant money back and you have no chance on the tax, if they do refund you they are allowed to charge for the miles covered by yourself, IIRC 40p a mile has been mentioned before
So your saying the OP has to pay the dealer to take the car back after finding it had its engine replaced etc etc?No.
Sa Calobra said:
andymc said:
none of the others will warrant money back and you have no chance on the tax, if they do refund you they are allowed to charge for the miles covered by yourself, IIRC 40p a mile has been mentioned before
So your saying the OP has to pay the dealer to take the car back after finding it had its engine replaced etc etc?No.
4rephill said:
And that's the exact point at which the sales guy should have said "Goodbye!", and put the phone down on you!
There's no way I'd do business with anyone who makes that sort of statement/threat to me!
Agreed it's a silly statement to make if you're travelling to buy a Ford Fiesta, but I can't see any reasonable dealer selling a Scud or a Gallardo etc seeing any malice in that statement. A lot of performance metal is sold to buyers who have to travel to buy the vehicle so it's almost a given that a respectable garage will happily agree with that proviso.There's no way I'd do business with anyone who makes that sort of statement/threat to me!
I think I said the same thing when I bought my TVR.
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