Are Smart Motorways Dangerous?

[eccles]

bolidemichael said:

Digga said:

bolidemichael said:

Digga said:

I do not think most users are well suited, spatially, to multiple lanes, three is enough of a challenge. Often, on a four lane motorway, the outer two lanes are little different in use to a three.

People will tend to hog the outermost lane minus one. It's a terrible cultural trait of driving standard complacency. Apols for going OT.

No, it is way on topic.

What 'Smart Motorways' has done, is use the sticking plaster of extra (less well utilised) lanes to the existing roads, instead of building redundancy and capacity through alternate routes, as the Germans have.

Now, when there is an accident and the whole north or southbound or whatever is shut, it's four lanes out of action. Had there been another road, even if it was only a dual carriageway, there'd still be lanes moving.

France and Germany are really large countries - the UK doesn't have the real estate capacity to be creating newer and wider roads. I really advocate signs emblazoned with 'keep left unless overtaking' on every display.

I drove down the new bit of the A14 round Cambridge over Christmas. It's been years in the making and is designed to reduce congestion, yet I could cruise down the inside lane passing cars sat in the middle and outer lanes for miles.
There needs to be a massive and sustained campaign about lane discipline, with huge penalties, that will be the only way anyone will take notice.

[bolidemichael]

eccles said:

bolidemichael said:

Digga said:

bolidemichael said:

Digga said:

I do not think most users are well suited, spatially, to multiple lanes, three is enough of a challenge. Often, on a four lane motorway, the outer two lanes are little different in use to a three.

People will tend to hog the outermost lane minus one. It's a terrible cultural trait of driving standard complacency. Apols for going OT.

No, it is way on topic.

What 'Smart Motorways' has done, is use the sticking plaster of extra (less well utilised) lanes to the existing roads, instead of building redundancy and capacity through alternate routes, as the Germans have.

Now, when there is an accident and the whole north or southbound or whatever is shut, it's four lanes out of action. Had there been another road, even if it was only a dual carriageway, there'd still be lanes moving.

France and Germany are really large countries - the UK doesn't have the real estate capacity to be creating newer and wider roads. I really advocate signs emblazoned with 'keep left unless overtaking' on every display.

I drove down the new bit of the A14 round Cambridge over Christmas. It's been years in the making and is designed to reduce congestion, yet I could cruise down the inside lane passing cars sat in the middle and outer lanes for miles.
There needs to be a massive and sustained campaign about lane discipline, with huge penalties, that will be the only way anyone will take notice.

The guidance I received when doing IAM was move left if you'll occupy that lane for at least ten seconds.

[frisbee]

dmsims said:

frisbee said:

I'm pretty sure they've changed that article, when I read it yesterday it had the total distance of all motorway in the UK and total deaths, 2000 miles and 90.

Smart and total deaths/mile came out about the same, given that smart motorways will be busier the numbers didn't really support their argument.

You have conveniently forgotten that not all "Smart" motorways are of the same design

No, you conveniently edited my post to eradicate the actual point that I was making...

[sparkythecat]

Heads up!
BBC1 8.30pm tonight
Britain's Killer Motorways

[anonymous-user]

Trialed with 600m between refuge areas, now these are up to 4000m apart. That is a disgrace. Every L1 on every smart motorway should be permanently closed immediately, to be used as a hard shoulder. This spineless transport MP should've made this happen the moment he was told there was a fundamental issue.

Edited by mstrbkr on Monday 27th January 20:48

[Gary C]

I must admit, being in the north, I did not realise that the majority of smart Mways use the hard shoulder as a live line and even worse, switch them on and off.

Does seem daft.

The variable speed limits I do think help, but not having anywhere to stop does seem wrong.

[largelunchbox]

It’s a simple fix, just have lane 1 with a permanent x so it’s converts them back to the good old hard shoulder and at no cost. If you want to spend some cash then paint in a solid white line like there used to be.

[Gary C]

largelunchbox said:

It’s a simple fix, just have lane 1 with a permanent x so it’s converts them back to the good old hard shoulder and at no cost. If you want to spend some cash then paint in a solid white line like there used to be.

Agreed.

[lost in espace]

ITV revealed that the review approved these smart motorways with radar detection.

It is interesting that Shapps said that all lane running is an issue as there are too many types of smart motorway, well construction of all lane running is planned for March 2020 here in Welwyn on the A1.

[anonymous-user]

fk me, most of the UK's motorways don't have the "smart" functionality to be able to close the lanes automatically. They should be closed immediately. How can this transport MP sleep at night?

[grumpy52]

Just two sections of motorway have the radar system that was promised in the initial planning .
Every upgraded section of motorway has speed enforcement cameras that are very quickly set to be live
All this in the name of "SAFETY" .
Just think about it for a minute .
The one thing that would help with safety is not fitted , but the system that gathers revenue is fitted everywhere .
Not a money maker ?

[Gary C]

I know one thing, im not driving down the first lane on a smart Mway. Even the second can be dangerous

Smart Motorways, justifying MLM's !

[Bradgate]

That was a very worrying episode of Panorama. It’s clear that as currently configured and operated, ‘smart’ motorways are : A, nothing of the sort & B, not fit for purpose.

I really hope Grant Shapps is serious about sorting this fiasco out, but I’m old and cynical enough to think nothing will actually change until a HGV ploughs into a coach full of children which has broken down between refuges on a ‘smart’ motorway .

[jm doc]

grumpy52 said:

Just two sections of motorway have the radar system that was promised in the initial planning .
Every upgraded section of motorway has speed enforcement cameras that are very quickly set to be live
All this in the name of "SAFETY" .
Just think about it for a minute .
The one thing that would help with safety is not fitted , but the system that gathers revenue is fitted everywhere .
Not a money maker ?

I think there are probably more deaths on smart motorways caused by live lane accidents than the entire rest of the motorway network caused by exceeding the speed limit . And most people are sent to prison for that

[Gary C]

Once a new petitions committee is in place, maybe we should start one on making the hard shoulder a permanent requirement on motorways,

[fatboy18]

I have been a Near miss victim on the so called smart Motorway,
Stationary traffic M25 between Godstone and Clackets Lane services, I was in lane 3 and the top radiator hose burst on the car. Once traffic started crawling I managed to get the car over to Lane 1, but there was a barrier (no grass)so I could not get out of the lane (also in the Viper LHD) so had to open LH Door,
Phoned AA who in turn phoned 999 at least 1/2 hr before assistance came, other drivers swearing at me for stopping Irish Artic Lorry missed the car by inches. Then when Highways Agency finally got to me they closed off ALL LANES before hooking me up to the back of their disco rover and towing me into the services.
How the hell they can continue rolling out this system beats the hell out of me.
The contractors must be loving the the cash being paid to them, I can't help thinking there have been some serious backhanders paid out to people along the way to continue this dangerous system! God forbid you break down at night on a non lit stretch of Motorway!
Ministers have Blood on their hands, the Panorama Program clearly Proved that.

I would urge everyone here to write to your MP stating your concerns.

[largelunchbox]

I didn’t understand the program blaming the smart motorway for the 2 men who [had a bump] and stopped to exchanged details, I know they lost there lives and it’s very sad but surely they should of carried on to the refuge area to exchanged details? The program didn’t say that the vehicles were not drivable so I’m assuming they were. So I put this unfortunate loss of life down to bad judgment on both drivers.

[fatboy18]

largelunchbox said:

I didn’t understand the program blaming the smart motorway for the 2 men who [had a bump] and stopped to exchanged details, I know they lost there lives and it’s very sad but surely they should of carried on to the refuge area to exchanged details? The program didn’t say that the vehicles were not drivable so I’m assuming they were. So I put this unfortunate loss of life down to bad judgment on both drivers.

It did not say exactly where the drivers stopped, if it had been on a raised section of smart motorway they would have had nowhere to go.

You might call it stupidity but most people if they have an accident normally phone Police and wait for them to attend before moving vehicles!

I don't know the full circumstances and neither do you, but the fact remains they may have survived "IF" there had been a Hard shoulder.

[anonymous-user]

largelunchbox said:

I didn’t understand the program blaming the smart motorway for the 2 men who [had a bump] and stopped to exchanged details, I know they lost there lives and it’s very sad but surely they should of carried on to the refuge area to exchanged details? The program didn’t say that the vehicles were not drivable so I’m assuming they were. So I put this unfortunate loss of life down to bad judgment on both drivers.

The smart motorway is supposed to automatically detect stopped vehicles and obstructions. It did not detect these two, and so the lane was left open. Blood is most definitely on a few hands.

[fatboy18]

But a smart motorway cannot detect broken down vehicles fast enough in busy traffic, as was clearly shown in the program resulting in the lady losing her Son, from her Sons car stopping to the Accident was 45 seconds!