Fined for taking a 4 year old out of school
Discussion
MB140 said:
We will have to agree to disagree. I took holidays during term time when I was at school (many moons ago) before fines and snotty letters. As did many children I should imagine. You were simply given the work beforehand or afterwards and expected to catch up. As I always did. It didn’t effect my education 1 bit. I went on to get 10 gcse all A or B. I got 3 A levels, numerous city and guilds, NC, HNC/D and finally did my degree via the OU.
I could understand if your talking great swathes of time off but a few weeks makes no difference.
My niece when she was 13 or 14 contracted Guillain-Barré syndrom. Nearly died and took a year to learn to walk again. She got all her school work sent to the hospital a lot of this was electronic through an online portal and whilst there was talk of her retaking a year she refused to do so and just got on with it (attitude of both parents and child to continue her education).
She started University last week to become a nurse (partly due to the time she spent in hospital at the QMC and the great care she received from the nurses).
My long winded point is that it’s more to do with the attitude of the parents and child than when they take time off and issuing fines will make not a jot of difference imho.
Well done, you have managed to both entirely miss the point and hit the nail square on the head!I could understand if your talking great swathes of time off but a few weeks makes no difference.
My niece when she was 13 or 14 contracted Guillain-Barré syndrom. Nearly died and took a year to learn to walk again. She got all her school work sent to the hospital a lot of this was electronic through an online portal and whilst there was talk of her retaking a year she refused to do so and just got on with it (attitude of both parents and child to continue her education).
She started University last week to become a nurse (partly due to the time she spent in hospital at the QMC and the great care she received from the nurses).
My long winded point is that it’s more to do with the attitude of the parents and child than when they take time off and issuing fines will make not a jot of difference imho.
The attitude of a large proportion of parents these days is diabolical and they would have no problem with taking 2 week holidays 3 times a year during term time and not make their children do any of the work because “it’s an oliday innit!” so therefore these rules unfortunately need to be introduced. Most of us on here will hate them, because they’re not aimed at us. We can all argue until the cows come home that the government should let us just be sensible when it comes to our children’s education, but too many people can’t be trusted to be sensible these days. The desire for parents to want a better life for their children has gone.
Those who grew up in poverty 30/40/50 years ago wanted a better life for their children, those who should be in poverty these days are paid to sit on their arses in front of their massive TV’s and do nothing, why would they want anything else for their children?
MB140 said:
Setting aside the law part of the argument as to should the parents be fined or not (it seems in this case the child is too young and that matter should be sorted eventually. Then I have a question for people in the know.
1) What are the implication (apart from fine) for the child if they are marked as unauthorised absence.
Is it put on any university application for instance.
If you get to many can they suspend the child/kick the child out of school.
If there is no real implication to the child’s future then surely every parent would just factor the £60 cost in to the how much the holiday costs.
As everybody tells me holiday prices can be £100s more in term time then it’s a no brainer.
To respond to an earlier post, I have spent literally hours and hours looking in to this. My wife won’t allow our children to be taken out of school simply because it’s against the rules and she doesn’t want to teach our children that rules are there for breaking.1) What are the implication (apart from fine) for the child if they are marked as unauthorised absence.
Is it put on any university application for instance.
If you get to many can they suspend the child/kick the child out of school.
If there is no real implication to the child’s future then surely every parent would just factor the £60 cost in to the how much the holiday costs.
As everybody tells me holiday prices can be £100s more in term time then it’s a no brainer.
Holidays are actually often £1000’s cheaper during term time, especially for places like Disney or all-inclusives. The numbers don’t stack up in the slightest because the fine is nowhere near enough to put anyone off.
As far as I can work out it becomes a simple moral issue and if you pay the fine then as long as their attendance doesn’t drop to stupidly low levels then nothing whatsoever happens.
Therefore in my situation, I will be 1000’s of pounds down, but at least I still have the moral high ground
(a daft one though it might be!)ThunderSpook said:
Well done, you have managed to both entirely miss the point and hit the nail square on the head!
The attitude of a large proportion of parents these days is diabolical and they would have no problem with taking 2 week holidays 3 times a year during term time and not make their children do any of the work because “it’s an oliday innit!” so therefore these rules unfortunately need to be introduced. Most of us on here will hate them, because they’re not aimed at us. We can all argue until the cows come home that the government should let us just be sensible when it comes to our children’s education, but too many people can’t be trusted to be sensible these days. The desire for parents to want a better life for their children has gone.
Those who grew up in poverty 30/40/50 years ago wanted a better life for their children, those who should be in poverty these days are paid to sit on their arses in front of their massive TV’s and do nothing, why would they want anything else for their children?
It's an interesting conundrum, and one that has bothered me for years. I live in an affluent area of London, and there's a clear line drawn between those folks who use the state system and those who choose to educate their kids privately. Typically, the ones who use the state system have two or more new cars on their drives, mostly uber expensive motors that most of us can't afford, and the parents who educate their kids privately (whilst paying for a state education that their kids never receive) drive heaps of crap that only just pass the MOT. The attitude of a large proportion of parents these days is diabolical and they would have no problem with taking 2 week holidays 3 times a year during term time and not make their children do any of the work because “it’s an oliday innit!” so therefore these rules unfortunately need to be introduced. Most of us on here will hate them, because they’re not aimed at us. We can all argue until the cows come home that the government should let us just be sensible when it comes to our children’s education, but too many people can’t be trusted to be sensible these days. The desire for parents to want a better life for their children has gone.
Those who grew up in poverty 30/40/50 years ago wanted a better life for their children, those who should be in poverty these days are paid to sit on their arses in front of their massive TV’s and do nothing, why would they want anything else for their children?
Personally, I love the fact that my sons go to a top school for which I'll be paying for many years more. If my penance for that is having to drive a s
t-box land rover, then so be it; but I'd much rather be that than send my kids to an average school and have a top-of-the-range beemer sat on my drive.Shoot me down if you want to, but we're here on this planet to do the very best that we can for the people we care about. Having a flash motor is lovely, but it pares into insignificance when put up against a child winning prizes for achievement. Key here is that it's not about you, you've had your chance and you've f
ked it up (often through no fault of your own) . It's all about giving your kids the best start in life that they could hope for.They won't thank you for it, but when you're 85 with no pension and looking at social housing, these little buggers might just ride to your rescue.
MB140 said:
If there is no real implication to the child’s future then surely every parent would just factor the £60 cost in to the how much the holiday costs.
As everybody tells me holiday prices can be £100s more in term time then it’s a no brainier. I could understand if a child was in the final years of GCSE but aged 4.
My only real memory from around age 4 was my uncle vic having a heart attack in front of me and dying. Quite a traumatic event.
So what is so important to teach a child aged 4 that missing 1 week is so important. Nothing.
It's a case a values, really. If you want to teach your child that responsibilities are more important than rights, that your moral compass should extend to more than the impact that your actions have on yourself, and that an education is the most important thing that you can possess, then you should act accordingly.As everybody tells me holiday prices can be £100s more in term time then it’s a no brainier. I could understand if a child was in the final years of GCSE but aged 4.
My only real memory from around age 4 was my uncle vic having a heart attack in front of me and dying. Quite a traumatic event.
So what is so important to teach a child aged 4 that missing 1 week is so important. Nothing.
If on the other hand you want to teach your child that they are more important than anybody else, that what they see is the only thing that matters, and that an education is a triviality that can be shunted aside in the name of saving a few quid - then go ahead.
Nicely valid but polarised points guys with some gold nuggets dotted about too!
I too know a couple in the expensive SE that are virtually bankrupt and drive a shed but the kids go to private school... It was really important to them. The holiday thing is totally irrelevant as they cant afford any! I'm however taking my two to Machu Picchu soon (yes, in a nice car to the airport too ) but they go to a decent state school (yes they really do exist!) where they mix with everyone from society and are already well rounded individuals who are fluently bilingual - I consider these huge life assets that you wouldn't get in a private system... May rule them out of ever being in a Tory cabinet mind; phew! . Horses/courses but I do like the point about altruism; I don't really get it but that is maybe since I always looked at schools as a chore to gain some A levels rather than any wonderful positive opportunity - it was something that held me back rather than inspired me. That happened once I was 'free'... 
All very individual inc my biases...
I too know a couple in the expensive SE that are virtually bankrupt and drive a shed but the kids go to private school... It was really important to them. The holiday thing is totally irrelevant as they cant afford any! I'm however taking my two to Machu Picchu soon (yes, in a nice car to the airport too
) but they go to a decent state school (yes they really do exist!) where they mix with everyone from society and are already well rounded individuals who are fluently bilingual - I consider these huge life assets that you wouldn't get in a private system... May rule them out of ever being in a Tory cabinet mind; phew! . Horses/courses but I do like the point about altruism; I don't really get it but that is maybe since I always looked at schools as a chore to gain some A levels rather than any wonderful positive opportunity - it was something that held me back rather than inspired me. That happened once I was 'free'... All very individual inc my biases...
ThunderSpook said:
The attitude of a large proportion of parents these days is diabolical and they would have no problem with taking 2 week holidays 3 times a year during term time and not make their children do any of the work because “it’s an oliday innit!” so therefore these rules unfortunately need to be introduced.
No the rules as they are now didn't have to be introduced. You can get a £60 fine for a single day off for a reason the school doesn't like (e.g. going to a wedding) and the trailer park trash gets the same £60 fine for taking two weeks off. ClaphamGT3 said:
How dreadful to be so horribly inconvenienced by your children's education 
I’m sorry that some people can’t live up to your fking expectations of unlimited cash and have to deal with problems that champions such as yourself have overcome. Like actually being able to plan around their kids being in school a whole school day, so the parents can do things like go to work, to pay for things which you, using your clearly superior abilities don’t worry about, like paying the rent or mortgage and buying food. Please tell us how living legends get it done?creampuff said:
ClaphamGT3 said:
How dreadful to be so horribly inconvenienced by your children's education
I’m sorry that some people can’t live up to your fking expectations of unlimited cash and have to deal with problems that champions such as yourself have overcome. Like actually being able to plan around their kids being in school a whole school day, so the parents can do things like go to work, to pay for things which you, using your clearly superior abilities don’t worry about, like paying the rent or mortgage and buying food. Please tell us how living legends get it done?Drive an older car
Save a bit more
Take a cheaper holiday
Extend the time taken between holidays.
Life is all about priorities. I think your child’s education takes precedence over a cheap 2 weeks in
creampuff said:
ThunderSpook said:
The attitude of a large proportion of parents these days is diabolical and they would have no problem with taking 2 week holidays 3 times a year during term time and not make their children do any of the work because “it’s an oliday innit!” so therefore these rules unfortunately need to be introduced.
No the rules as they are now didn't have to be introduced. You can get a £60 fine for a single day off for a reason the school doesn't like (e.g. going to a wedding) and the trailer park trash gets the same £60 fine for taking two weeks off. The fine is also per parent per child, so for a 2 parent 2 child family for example it would be £240, hence Wayne and Waynetta magically break up just before their holiday and claim there is only one parent so halve the fine.
Countdown said:
A combination of
Drive an older car
Save a bit more
Take a cheaper holiday
Extend the time taken between holidays.
Life is all about priorities. I think your child’s education takes precedence over a cheap 2 weeks inTorremolinos “somewhere educational where Grace and Oliver really absorbed the culture, yah? “
What are you talking about? My post was about the economic cost to parents of having multiple weeks of get-used-to-school quarter, half or three-quarter days, which mean parents cannot go to work. That was what was posted and that was what I replied to. Drive an older car
Save a bit more
Take a cheaper holiday
Extend the time taken between holidays.
Life is all about priorities. I think your child’s education takes precedence over a cheap 2 weeks in
And anyway, who is it for you to judge anybody elses holiday? So if a school organises a school trip abroad, it is all good and educational but if the parents have a holiday abroad, then you have just decided, all by yourself, that it has no value?
creampuff said:
ClaphamGT3 said:
How dreadful to be so horribly inconvenienced by your children's education
I’m sorry that some people can’t live up to your fking expectations of unlimited cash and have to deal with problems that champions such as yourself have overcome. Like actually being able to plan around their kids being in school a whole school day, so the parents can do things like go to work, to pay for things which you, using your clearly superior abilities don’t worry about, like paying the rent or mortgage and buying food. Please tell us how living legends get it done?There is absolutely no excuse for a new parent to be surprised by phased reception inductions or to claim that they don't have the time to make necessary arrangements to make them work. An organised parent will know five months in advance what the induction arrangements for the school their child will attend are.
To those who talk about reception induction being "finger painting", I have children aged 9 & 10 and I am a governor at 2 LA primary schools. The reception induction week is an important part of settling a child into school, helping them to fit in with classmates whilst they are all 'in the same boat' and to allow the class teacher to spot and address any settling in challenges with parents before school 'proper' gets going two weeks into term.
To those saying that this is overbearing nanny-statism, there is no bigger advocate of small government and personal freedom than me but, in instances like this, it is only common sense to acknowledge that a school is likely to have more experience in inducting a child into the beginning of their formal education than parents
ClaphamGT3 said:
There is absolutely no excuse for a new parent to be surprised by phased reception inductions or to claim that they don't have the time to make necessary arrangements to make them work. An organised parent will know five months in advance what the induction arrangements for the school their child will attend are.
I did not ask how parents should find out about extended inductions. I asked how parents should manage the economic cost to themselves of extended inductions, due to being unable to go to work, because they have to pick children up from school at varying times over several weeks.I'm sorry that there are people in this country who don't have the financial resources to organise their life the way you think they should. Thank goodness you know best so you can lecture them.
Edited by creampuff on Saturday 22 September 13:15
creampuff said:
I'm sorry that there are people in this country who don't have the financial resources to organise their life the way you think they should. Thank goodness you know best so you can lecture them.
Maybe they should have thought about these sort of scenarios before deciding to have children? Edited by creampuff on Saturday 22 September 13:15
Schools are not there as a day care centre to look after your sprog when it suits you.
If your work is more important than looking after your child, then maybe a child wasnt right for you, or hire a nanny to look after them for you?
Contract Killer said:
Maybe they should have thought about these sort of scenarios before deciding to have children?
Schools are not there as a day care centre to look after your sprog when it suits you.
If your work is more important than looking after your child, then maybe a child wasnt right for you, or hire a nanny to look after them for you?
I see. Another person who has no concept that people go to work to earn money. That some people do not have as much money or resources that you have. So I'll spell it out so you can understand; This is not about hiring a nanny. You just have no concept that people cannot afford to hire a nanny. They need to go to work so they can pay the rent or pay the mortgage or buy food. Hiring a nanny is a pipe dream. This has been pointed out, several times but you still haven't got it. Given that, I don't really think you are qualified to give everybody a lecture about anything to do with school, if you can't even understand that. Schools are not there as a day care centre to look after your sprog when it suits you.
If your work is more important than looking after your child, then maybe a child wasnt right for you, or hire a nanny to look after them for you?
Also school starts at about 5, so over 5 years after conception. Call it 5 years and 9 months after conception. What will you be doing in March 2024, broken down to the day over month long period. You seem to expect this of others, so tell us what you will be doing.
Edited by creampuff on Saturday 22 September 15:40
I remember a teacher mate having a pop at me for moaning about a random Inset day that cost me a day's contract work. No sympathy. She said it was a school and not a babysitting service. Harsh.
Guess she had about as much sympathy as contract killing Contract Killer. Maybe I should have borne that in mind when having sex 8 years previously - MY FAIL. Caveat capitalistic emptor and sod the breadwinner that makes the money to pay the teachers!!! I seriously think they have no concept of working parents at times - we dont all finish at 3 either!!! Harsh.
Guess she had about as much sympathy as contract killing Contract Killer. Maybe I should have borne that in mind when having sex 8 years previously - MY FAIL. Caveat capitalistic emptor and sod the breadwinner that makes the money to pay the teachers!!! I seriously think they have no concept of working parents at times - we dont all finish at 3 either!!! Harsh.
creampuff said:
ClaphamGT3 said:
There is absolutely no excuse for a new parent to be surprised by phased reception inductions or to claim that they don't have the time to make necessary arrangements to make them work. An organised parent will know five months in advance what the induction arrangements for the school their child will attend are.
I did not ask how parents should find out about extended inductions. I asked how parents should manage the economic cost to themselves of extended inductions, due to being unable to go to work, because they have to pick children up from school at varying times over several weeks.I'm sorry that there are people in this country who don't have the financial resources to organise their life the way you think they should. Thank goodness you know best so you can lecture them.
Edited by creampuff on Saturday 22 September 13:15
Ken Figenus said:
I remember a teacher mate having a pop at me for moaning about a random Inset day that cost me a day's contract work. No sympathy. She said it was a school and not a babysitting service. Harsh.
Guess she had about as much sympathy as contract killing Contract Killer. Maybe I should have borne that in mind when having sex 8 years previously - MY FAIL. Caveat capitalistic emptor and sod the breadwinner that makes the money to pay the teachers!!! I seriously think they have no concept of working parents at times - we dont all finish at 3 either!!! Harsh.
I don’t think teachers have any concept of outside their world.Guess she had about as much sympathy as contract killing Contract Killer. Maybe I should have borne that in mind when having sex 8 years previously - MY FAIL. Caveat capitalistic emptor and sod the breadwinner that makes the money to pay the teachers!!! I seriously think they have no concept of working parents at times - we dont all finish at 3 either!!! Harsh.
My daughter recently went on a school trio. The coach was advertised as leaving at 6.45am. Theeefore like organised people we were there at 6:30 (having overturned daylights request for 6:-15).. the teachers tuned up at 6:45 and the bus left at 7:15.
This it was apparent was intentional to make sure we were not late. Well not until they made us late... the knock on made me late for 2 days...
And that’s also overlooking the walk they did just before the summer holidays where they stopped to have a picnic lunch by a quarry lake. Cheers for showing the kids that - someone died swimming in it 2 years ago...
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