whiplash claim, 2mph
Discussion
ZOLLAR said:
It's fine to disagree but the information is asked of policyholder whether they or any persons involved have had injuries whether they're the third parties or not, remember passengers in policyholders cars can claim for injury and there's not always a third party insurer to claim from, it's also not unknown for those passengers to try and enter fraudulent claims even if they're close related or friends with the policyholder.
It also may help should your policyholder attempt to make a fraudulent claim against the TP through exaggerated injuries, all insurers are required to do what they can to reduce fraud.
Fair enough on the passengers. Not convinced by the policyholder questions and fraud angle. You’re unlikely to share that data anyway. It also may help should your policyholder attempt to make a fraudulent claim against the TP through exaggerated injuries, all insurers are required to do what they can to reduce fraud.
Gavia said:
ZOLLAR said:
It's fine to disagree but the information is asked of policyholder whether they or any persons involved have had injuries whether they're the third parties or not, remember passengers in policyholders cars can claim for injury and there's not always a third party insurer to claim from, it's also not unknown for those passengers to try and enter fraudulent claims even if they're close related or friends with the policyholder.
It also may help should your policyholder attempt to make a fraudulent claim against the TP through exaggerated injuries, all insurers are required to do what they can to reduce fraud.
Fair enough on the passengers. Not convinced by the policyholder questions and fraud angle. You’re unlikely to share that data anyway. It also may help should your policyholder attempt to make a fraudulent claim against the TP through exaggerated injuries, all insurers are required to do what they can to reduce fraud.
ZOLLAR said:
Well as a fraud investigator I'd argue otherwise.
Fair enough, but as someone who’s also been very involved in this side of things I’d say that data sharing unless blatant fraud / part of a known ring is extremely unlikely. Plus it will often only be requested by the IFB and not offered up by you. ZOLLAR said:
If insurers were to skirt the issue and bury their head in the sand about a potential injury then then claimant party is highly likely to end up with an accident management company/solicitor with inflated costs incoming, if the insurer asks these details straight away and gets all the information needed they have far better chances of controlling the costs and avoiding inflated or fraudulent claims.
The horse has bolted from the stable on injury claims, people know they can claim for injury and will, insurers have to pre-empt and mitigate these costs and they certainly won't be able to do that without asking a few simple questions.
When someone ran into the back of the car my wife drives I contacted our insurer and let them deal with it. The 3rd party insurer tried to contact her directly and wouldn't speak to me, despite me being the owner and policyholder. I've been told that likely they'd have wanted to make a pre-emptive payment to head-off any potential claim.The horse has bolted from the stable on injury claims, people know they can claim for injury and will, insurers have to pre-empt and mitigate these costs and they certainly won't be able to do that without asking a few simple questions.
My daughters car was written off a few weeks ago by a van driving into the back of it, and shunting it into the car in front. She has no whiplash at all. I will say that the whole thing has been a lot more hassle than I imagined and I can certainly see why people think getting an extra grand or so out of it is 'fair'.
Hit a Peugeot 206 from behind on a wet road a couple of years ago. Probably 5mph. Case has just been settled. Car repairs were £460 for a repainted bumper on his car, and..... £35,000 personal injury. He refused to get out the car, and demanded an ambulance. He knew how to play the game and had probably been waiting his whole life for someone to hit him. He sat there waiting for the ambulance smoking cigarettes, and laughing.
cbmotorsport said:
Hit a Peugeot 206 from behind on a wet road a couple of years ago. Probably 5mph. Case has just been settled. Car repairs were £460 for a repainted bumper on his car, and..... £35,000 personal injury. He refused to get out the car, and demanded an ambulance. He knew how to play the game and had probably been waiting his whole life for someone to hit him. He sat there waiting for the ambulance smoking cigarettes, and laughing.
should have pushed the car off the nearest cliff to get monies worthcbmotorsport said:
Hit a Peugeot 206 from behind on a wet road a couple of years ago. Probably 5mph. Case has just been settled. Car repairs were £460 for a repainted bumper on his car, and..... £35,000 personal injury. He refused to get out the car, and demanded an ambulance. He knew how to play the game and had probably been waiting his whole life for someone to hit him. He sat there waiting for the ambulance smoking cigarettes, and laughing.
Rubbish. Injury claim payouts are controlled via the JSB. Unless he lost a limb he didn’t receive that amount. I doubt he received anything like that much.
Someone hit me and the only thing I got was needless calls from the same sorts of companies trying to get me to claim, telling me the other party had already done so.
All in similar areas and all probably using numbers purchased from one of these b
ds who buys up tons of redundant numbers in areas and sells them in bulk to claim companies so they can call you from hundreds of numbers instead of one.
I decided to have it out with one once, told him I was out of work, I honestly could not fault the bloke, he was literally trying to convince me that grey was black by the end, he was so convinced that he was going to get me to sign up. Quite pushy, rather rude, but utterly sold by his own bull.
I was told 3500 about the max. And I told him to stuff it as this is why most peoples insurance is going up all the time, because of cretinous crap like this, you being there to be paid, all this money set aside (allegedly)
It is the most farcical industry I have ever had dealings with, why? because it's law stupid.
Someone hit me and the only thing I got was needless calls from the same sorts of companies trying to get me to claim, telling me the other party had already done so.
All in similar areas and all probably using numbers purchased from one of these b
ds who buys up tons of redundant numbers in areas and sells them in bulk to claim companies so they can call you from hundreds of numbers instead of one.I decided to have it out with one once, told him I was out of work, I honestly could not fault the bloke, he was literally trying to convince me that grey was black by the end, he was so convinced that he was going to get me to sign up. Quite pushy, rather rude, but utterly sold by his own bull.
I was told 3500 about the max. And I told him to stuff it as this is why most peoples insurance is going up all the time, because of cretinous crap like this, you being there to be paid, all this money set aside (allegedly)
It is the most farcical industry I have ever had dealings with, why? because it's law stupid.
Gavia said:
ZOLLAR said:
Well as a fraud investigator I'd argue otherwise.
Fair enough, but as someone who’s also been very involved in this side of things I’d say that data sharing unless blatant fraud / part of a known ring is extremely unlikely. Plus it will often only be requested by the IFB and not offered up by you.ZOLLAR said:
I'd have to disagree with that, there are procedures in place for insurers to share information, whilst the IFB play a big part in what we assess they aren't the be all and end all of data sharing and investigation.
I’m not looking for a big argument, but I can’t see you sharing this info as a matter of course. You ask for the info, but if a TP insurer comes to you and asks for this info it would be a bit strange for you to just give it to them, after all there’s no guarantee that the other insurers are as robust with their questioning of their own customer’s injuries. Equally, the idea that you want to try to scupper your customers with their (potentially genuine) injury claims seems a bit strange. It’s also a process that could have significant TCF implications.
There’s no issue with people identified as potentially part of a wider fraud ring, but not systemic data sharing of Mrs Miggins, just in case she’s a “bit dodgy”.
Gavia said:
I’m not looking for a big argument, but I can’t see you sharing this info as a matter of course. You ask for the info, but if a TP insurer comes to you and asks for this info it would be a bit strange for you to just give it to them, after all there’s no guarantee that the other insurers are as robust with their questioning of their own customer’s injuries.
Equally, the idea that you want to try to scupper your customers with their (potentially genuine) injury claims seems a bit strange. It’s also a process that could have significant TCF implications.
There’s no issue with people identified as potentially part of a wider fraud ring, but not systemic data sharing of Mrs Miggins, just in case she’s a “bit dodgy”.
I’m not looking for an argument either just simply saying I disagree with you based on first hand knowledge.Equally, the idea that you want to try to scupper your customers with their (potentially genuine) injury claims seems a bit strange. It’s also a process that could have significant TCF implications.
There’s no issue with people identified as potentially part of a wider fraud ring, but not systemic data sharing of Mrs Miggins, just in case she’s a “bit dodgy”.
I’m also not saying that we’d actively send out information where no concern exists or release under a phishing exercise but if we’re approached by an insurer directly under the relevant data release procedure and we deem the concern sufficient to comply with the request we will.
We can only get that information initially if the correct questions are asked (arcing back to my earlier reply)
I think it’s best to agree to disagree on these points.
ZOLLAR said:
Gavia said:
I’m not looking for a big argument, but I can’t see you sharing this info as a matter of course. You ask for the info, but if a TP insurer comes to you and asks for this info it would be a bit strange for you to just give it to them, after all there’s no guarantee that the other insurers are as robust with their questioning of their own customer’s injuries.
Equally, the idea that you want to try to scupper your customers with their (potentially genuine) injury claims seems a bit strange. It’s also a process that could have significant TCF implications.
There’s no issue with people identified as potentially part of a wider fraud ring, but not systemic data sharing of Mrs Miggins, just in case she’s a “bit dodgy”.
I’m not looking for an argument either just simply saying I disagree with you based on first hand knowledge.Equally, the idea that you want to try to scupper your customers with their (potentially genuine) injury claims seems a bit strange. It’s also a process that could have significant TCF implications.
There’s no issue with people identified as potentially part of a wider fraud ring, but not systemic data sharing of Mrs Miggins, just in case she’s a “bit dodgy”.
I’m also not saying that we’d actively send out information where no concern exists or release under a phishing exercise but if we’re approached by an insurer directly under the relevant data release procedure and we deem the concern sufficient to comply with the request we will.
We can only get that information initially if the correct questions are asked (arcing back to my earlier reply)
I think it’s best to agree to disagree on these points.
Whilst driving up a narrowish road with cars parked on the right I waited for a car coming down the road past the parked cars. One of the parked cars decide to pull out and touched the car. I suspect as she was going so slowly he thought she had stopped to let him out. Anyway agreed to be a witness that he had bumped (touched) her car. Didn’t think anything more about it. A few weeks later I got a letter from her solicitor asking me to “support” or be a witness (cannot remember the exact wording) for her claim for whiplash. She was going so slowly in her car and the chap who pulled out touched her car on the side. Not sure how that works for whiplash.
Anyway I swiftly replied that I would not support any fraudulent claim for whiplash.
We all pay for this fraud and it really annoys me.
Anyway I swiftly replied that I would not support any fraudulent claim for whiplash.
We all pay for this fraud and it really annoys me.
whiplash can happen at any speed ,
Last year , I flew back from Bulgaria, got the train to Norwich and had my daughters husband come collect me in my M3.
I had a very stress free journey ,nice and relaxed after a few months relaxing abroad, the plane journey was ok and the train journey again ok.
Got in my car and drove about 3 miles ,and queued at a roundabout, I got to the front of the queue ,was stationary and looking right for a gap in traffic to pull out.
The woman driver behind me pulled forward and hit the back of my car ,pretty much dead in the middle, I felt It but my passenger wasnt sure . swapped insurance details etc and went home.
Unpacked my bags etc ,,couldnt be arsed to open any post until the morning and went to bed...I woke up a couple of hours later in agony..severe neck pain.
After an hour or so I decided to go to hospital...treated like i was making it up and the doctor refused to examine me ,the only time he touched me was to shake my hand as he told me to go home and come back in 2 weeks if it still hurt...over a year later I am still on pain killers and have bad headaches.
Last year , I flew back from Bulgaria, got the train to Norwich and had my daughters husband come collect me in my M3.
I had a very stress free journey ,nice and relaxed after a few months relaxing abroad, the plane journey was ok and the train journey again ok.
Got in my car and drove about 3 miles ,and queued at a roundabout, I got to the front of the queue ,was stationary and looking right for a gap in traffic to pull out.
The woman driver behind me pulled forward and hit the back of my car ,pretty much dead in the middle, I felt It but my passenger wasnt sure . swapped insurance details etc and went home.
Unpacked my bags etc ,,couldnt be arsed to open any post until the morning and went to bed...I woke up a couple of hours later in agony..severe neck pain.
After an hour or so I decided to go to hospital...treated like i was making it up and the doctor refused to examine me ,the only time he touched me was to shake my hand as he told me to go home and come back in 2 weeks if it still hurt...over a year later I am still on pain killers and have bad headaches.
tuneltek said:
whiplash can happen at any speed ,
Last year , I flew back from Bulgaria, got the train to Norwich and had my daughters husband come collect me in my M3.
I had a very stress free journey ,nice and relaxed after a few months relaxing abroad, the plane journey was ok and the train journey again ok.
Got in my car and drove about 3 miles ,and queued at a roundabout, I got to the front of the queue ,was stationary and looking right for a gap in traffic to pull out.
The woman driver behind me pulled forward and hit the back of my car ,pretty much dead in the middle, I felt It but my passenger wasnt sure . swapped insurance details etc and went home.
Unpacked my bags etc ,,couldnt be arsed to open any post until the morning and went to bed...I woke up a couple of hours later in agony..severe neck pain.
After an hour or so I decided to go to hospital...treated like i was making it up and the doctor refused to examine me ,the only time he touched me was to shake my hand as he told me to go home and come back in 2 weeks if it still hurt...over a year later I am still on pain killers and have bad headaches.
Sorry but I'm not convinced. Whiplash is caused by sudden movement of the head - i.e like your head snapping back when you're rear ended. It seems rather unlikely that happened to you whilst your passenger didn't even feel the impact.Last year , I flew back from Bulgaria, got the train to Norwich and had my daughters husband come collect me in my M3.
I had a very stress free journey ,nice and relaxed after a few months relaxing abroad, the plane journey was ok and the train journey again ok.
Got in my car and drove about 3 miles ,and queued at a roundabout, I got to the front of the queue ,was stationary and looking right for a gap in traffic to pull out.
The woman driver behind me pulled forward and hit the back of my car ,pretty much dead in the middle, I felt It but my passenger wasnt sure . swapped insurance details etc and went home.
Unpacked my bags etc ,,couldnt be arsed to open any post until the morning and went to bed...I woke up a couple of hours later in agony..severe neck pain.
After an hour or so I decided to go to hospital...treated like i was making it up and the doctor refused to examine me ,the only time he touched me was to shake my hand as he told me to go home and come back in 2 weeks if it still hurt...over a year later I am still on pain killers and have bad headaches.
Fraudulent claims is a huge issue for all of us. We had a speight of drivers who had been rear ended with little damage, but they were all having 5 days off (some systher had told them it makes a difference) Normally we pay if they have an accident and are off work, but I stopped paying telling them as it was obvious what they were doing, to claim loss of earnings from the other driver. This put a stop to it as a weeks pay and no guarantee they would get it back stopped them.
Where it is a serious accident we pay until we know what the long term issue is.
What is clear also from our dealings with insurers we use, they set aside money for injuries on any own fault accidents, often the figure looks insane, but factor in all legal costs, expert witness and the accident management charges and it is easy to see how they get there.
Where it is a serious accident we pay until we know what the long term issue is.
What is clear also from our dealings with insurers we use, they set aside money for injuries on any own fault accidents, often the figure looks insane, but factor in all legal costs, expert witness and the accident management charges and it is easy to see how they get there.
tuneltek said:
... looking right for a gap in traffic to pull out.
Perhaps it makes a difference if you're head is turned - and maybe away from the headrest.OK it was truck, but sister-in-laws car was nudged on the side while she was waiting in the yard of the place my brother worked - she was sitting in the car reading. This was about 30 years ago and her neck still troubles her.
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