Spending money wrongly credited to you
Discussion
MuscleSaloon said:
tigger1 said:
Is there CCTV showing anyone counting the notes as they were deposited?
My first thoughts. Surveillance is cheap enough, why would it not be present where cash handling takes place ? 
roadsmash said:
Sorry, forgot to continue my post!!!
Although all I was going to do was rant about the police’s response.
I’ve always defended our police force but the fact they aren’t willing to help on this is shocking at best.
Knowingly spending £7200 that has arrived into your account, that isn’t yours, is illegal, and must be paid back by law.
If the woman hasn’t made an attempt to pay back the money then she can be charged with “keeping wrongful credit” IIRC.
Clearly the woman can be traced with bank account details and the police should absolutely be doing this.
Edit; reading again, I can see the woman was traced, but there is certainly more the police can do on this.
What do you expect the police to do?Although all I was going to do was rant about the police’s response.
I’ve always defended our police force but the fact they aren’t willing to help on this is shocking at best.
Knowingly spending £7200 that has arrived into your account, that isn’t yours, is illegal, and must be paid back by law.
If the woman hasn’t made an attempt to pay back the money then she can be charged with “keeping wrongful credit” IIRC.
Clearly the woman can be traced with bank account details and the police should absolutely be doing this.
Edit; reading again, I can see the woman was traced, but there is certainly more the police can do on this.
Edited by roadsmash on Tuesday 16th October 23:37
This is a civil matter rather than a criminal one. Its outside their remit. Certainly the P.O. and "friends" involved are entitled to seek damages through the courts, but until there is a court ruling the police are effectively powerless to do anything.
Certainly the "woman" was wrong to spend the money she knew was not hers, but that's not a police matter as there is no crime to investigate nor criminal charges to be laid. Its now up to the Post Office to provide evidence that only £800 was tendered and the remaining sum was a mistake to a court.
Just a thought but there may be some sort of insurance policy in place to cover issues like this?
Working in the finance industry it's a requirement for us to have professional indemnity insurance to cover genuine mistakes made etc.
Whether a claim of this size is worthwhile given potential premium hikes is another matter however.
CCTV should back up the PO claim however there is theft here. Either the woman due to the error of from the post office. It should really be a police matter and them washing their hands of it is not really on.
Working in the finance industry it's a requirement for us to have professional indemnity insurance to cover genuine mistakes made etc.
Whether a claim of this size is worthwhile given potential premium hikes is another matter however.
CCTV should back up the PO claim however there is theft here. Either the woman due to the error of from the post office. It should really be a police matter and them washing their hands of it is not really on.
Psycho Warren said:
Surely a PO would have CCTV over the counter and cash area. 8k looks a lot different than 800.
The OP said it was "family run". Usually that's code for "as cheap and dodgy as possible".Once it gets to court, the woman will be expected to explain the source of the £8000 and provide evidence. The P.O. should be able to at least reconcile their side with a till receipt or deposit slips, if not its a he-said/she-said thing although judges are fairly good with those.
captain_cynic said:
roadsmash said:
Sorry, forgot to continue my post!!!
Although all I was going to do was rant about the police’s response.
I’ve always defended our police force but the fact they aren’t willing to help on this is shocking at best.
Knowingly spending £7200 that has arrived into your account, that isn’t yours, is illegal, and must be paid back by law.
If the woman hasn’t made an attempt to pay back the money then she can be charged with “keeping wrongful credit” IIRC.
Clearly the woman can be traced with bank account details and the police should absolutely be doing this.
Edit; reading again, I can see the woman was traced, but there is certainly more the police can do on this.
What do you expect the police to do?Although all I was going to do was rant about the police’s response.
I’ve always defended our police force but the fact they aren’t willing to help on this is shocking at best.
Knowingly spending £7200 that has arrived into your account, that isn’t yours, is illegal, and must be paid back by law.
If the woman hasn’t made an attempt to pay back the money then she can be charged with “keeping wrongful credit” IIRC.
Clearly the woman can be traced with bank account details and the police should absolutely be doing this.
Edit; reading again, I can see the woman was traced, but there is certainly more the police can do on this.
Edited by roadsmash on Tuesday 16th October 23:37
This is a civil matter rather than a criminal one. Its outside their remit. Certainly the P.O. and "friends" involved are entitled to seek damages through the courts, but until there is a court ruling the police are effectively powerless to do anything.
Certainly the "woman" was wrong to spend the money she knew was not hers, but that's not a police matter as there is no crime to investigate nor criminal charges to be laid. Its now up to the Post Office to provide evidence that only £800 was tendered and the remaining sum was a mistake to a court.
V8LM said:
IANAL, but for prosecution under the Act for retaining wrongful credit the payment has to be 'wrongful' (theft, blackmail, fraud, stolen), none of which apply. However, drawing the money out of the account and spending it becomes theft, but possibly only if the PO can prove the lady knew the money was in her account in error.
Ultimately it should land at the door of the FO: https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publication...
If you knowingly spend a penny that is accidentally transferred to you it is wrongful. If you don’t make an attempt to return the money and instead spend it, you have broken the law.Ultimately it should land at the door of the FO: https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publication...
Edited by V8LM on Wednesday 17th October 10:27
I know this all because I was nearly a victim of such a crime. I accidentally paid my ex-girlfriend £15,000 instead of my mum. Not one of my best moments, particularly as the bank phoned me to ensure everything was correct before processing the payment.
My ex tried to make out that she was expecting a similar payment that day and had spent the money that very day, when in reality she had transferred the money to her dad for safe keeping and attempted to “lie low.”
She very nearly ended up in prison.
I watched someone lose £800 in Benidorm last month not related to this but intresting
English guy comes in with family group of about 15
They have a few cocktails and leave.
We decide to move to their table as better view of the TV
Waitress comes over to clear as we sit, one of our group spots a clear PO envelope full of Euros on table.
We pick it up and say this belongs to the lot just in here, 2 of our group go to see if they can spot them, no luck as its a busy sea front .
Waitress says she will give the money to the owner for safe keeping behind the bar.
30 minutes later guys turns up in a panic looking for his money ( to pay for big birthday meal )
We give him a cheer, and point him to the bar.
Owner comes out, says firstly sorry what envelope, then claims a cleaner must have mistaken it for rubbish and binned it , oh and the bins have just been emptied.
The police get called, listen the the bar owners story and say tough, moneys been accidental binned, get over it. Guys not happy but knows there is nowt he can do !
English guy comes in with family group of about 15
They have a few cocktails and leave.
We decide to move to their table as better view of the TV
Waitress comes over to clear as we sit, one of our group spots a clear PO envelope full of Euros on table.
We pick it up and say this belongs to the lot just in here, 2 of our group go to see if they can spot them, no luck as its a busy sea front .
Waitress says she will give the money to the owner for safe keeping behind the bar.
30 minutes later guys turns up in a panic looking for his money ( to pay for big birthday meal )
We give him a cheer, and point him to the bar.
Owner comes out, says firstly sorry what envelope, then claims a cleaner must have mistaken it for rubbish and binned it , oh and the bins have just been emptied.
The police get called, listen the the bar owners story and say tough, moneys been accidental binned, get over it. Guys not happy but knows there is nowt he can do !
roadsmash said:
Sorry, I stopped reading that rubbish after I read “this is a civil matter.”
Had a friend whom I used to climb with whom was a sub postie in a small village near Nottingham (Langley?). Had pretty much the same happen and even though this was 20 odd years ago (was told the story in 2000) police would play the "this is a civil matter" card. So Tim took the woman to civil court where the "I've been selling bits of stuff, earning and saving up £200 per week" excuse was presented very elequently by the clients solicitor.Tim lost.
Tim was happy as he had tipped off a reporter whom got the story in the papers, knowing what was to come.
Tim was very happy when the woman was back in court, this time by the Council for benefits fraud.
Think the amount she was overpaid was about £5k in the initial instance. Council came after her for around £13k after the investigation to all her accounts had been done. Ended up with jail time after abusing the justicide system.
Everyone in small village very happy as said woman had been a spiteful boastful person who "knew how to stick it to the man and play the system" so everyone was awaiting the fall. Tim reckoned he got nearly half his original loss (which he had to cover as a sub postie) back in free drinks over the following years.
Perhaps a quick word to the local benefit agency if they have an interest if this lady receives benefits but has somehow had £8k spare to pay into an account (especially if she gets benefits from the account - that was another way Tim said people got caught for benefit fraud)?
I had nearly 20k on a credit card for a good few months after someone paid the wrong card details. Christ that was tempting, especially when the credit card company (something that comes out a Chicken) we asking me to close the account for being in credit from month to month, yet it was they who'd first alerted me to the payment error. When the money was finally taken out I got seven days notice, during a period abroad (in one of them old fashioned letters to my UK address) so had I used the money I could have been in quite a bit of trouble when it went!
Edited by StanleyT on Wednesday 17th October 18:40
The person is at risk of being investigated for retaining a wrongful credit, the problem being that if there’s no receipt and no cctv then there’s no proof. They could easily explain away 8k by saying it was saved at £10 a week over several years and when they realised it was such a large amount then they paid it in. One word against another.
The financial ombudsman more often than not uses balance of probability to sort out wrongful credits but that’s usually the other way around where you’ve deposited 8k but the bank credits £800.
The police could record a crime and investigate it I guess as it should come under the theft act. Getting a charge is another thing.
The financial ombudsman more often than not uses balance of probability to sort out wrongful credits but that’s usually the other way around where you’ve deposited 8k but the bank credits £800.
The police could record a crime and investigate it I guess as it should come under the theft act. Getting a charge is another thing.
matjk said:
I watched someone lose £800 in Benidorm last month not related to this but intresting
English guy comes in with family group of about 15
They have a few cocktails and leave.
We decide to move to their table as better view of the TV
Waitress comes over to clear as we sit, one of our group spots a clear PO envelope full of Euros on table.
We pick it up and say this belongs to the lot just in here, 2 of our group go to see if they can spot them, no luck as its a busy sea front .
Waitress says she will give the money to the owner for safe keeping behind the bar.
30 minutes later guys turns up in a panic looking for his money ( to pay for big birthday meal )
We give him a cheer, and point him to the bar.
Owner comes out, says firstly sorry what envelope, then claims a cleaner must have mistaken it for rubbish and binned it , oh and the bins have just been emptied.
The police get called, listen the the bar owners story and say tough, moneys been accidental binned, get over it. Guys not happy but knows there is nowt he can do !
Did the police not think to speak with the waitress?English guy comes in with family group of about 15
They have a few cocktails and leave.
We decide to move to their table as better view of the TV
Waitress comes over to clear as we sit, one of our group spots a clear PO envelope full of Euros on table.
We pick it up and say this belongs to the lot just in here, 2 of our group go to see if they can spot them, no luck as its a busy sea front .
Waitress says she will give the money to the owner for safe keeping behind the bar.
30 minutes later guys turns up in a panic looking for his money ( to pay for big birthday meal )
We give him a cheer, and point him to the bar.
Owner comes out, says firstly sorry what envelope, then claims a cleaner must have mistaken it for rubbish and binned it , oh and the bins have just been emptied.
The police get called, listen the the bar owners story and say tough, moneys been accidental binned, get over it. Guys not happy but knows there is nowt he can do !
Digger said:
matjk said:
I watched someone lose £800 in Benidorm last month not related to this but intresting
English guy comes in with family group of about 15
They have a few cocktails and leave.
We decide to move to their table as better view of the TV
Waitress comes over to clear as we sit, one of our group spots a clear PO envelope full of Euros on table.
We pick it up and say this belongs to the lot just in here, 2 of our group go to see if they can spot them, no luck as its a busy sea front .
Waitress says she will give the money to the owner for safe keeping behind the bar.
30 minutes later guys turns up in a panic looking for his money ( to pay for big birthday meal )
We give him a cheer, and point him to the bar.
Owner comes out, says firstly sorry what envelope, then claims a cleaner must have mistaken it for rubbish and binned it , oh and the bins have just been emptied.
The police get called, listen the the bar owners story and say tough, moneys been accidental binned, get over it. Guys not happy but knows there is nowt he can do !
Did the police not think to speak with the waitress?English guy comes in with family group of about 15
They have a few cocktails and leave.
We decide to move to their table as better view of the TV
Waitress comes over to clear as we sit, one of our group spots a clear PO envelope full of Euros on table.
We pick it up and say this belongs to the lot just in here, 2 of our group go to see if they can spot them, no luck as its a busy sea front .
Waitress says she will give the money to the owner for safe keeping behind the bar.
30 minutes later guys turns up in a panic looking for his money ( to pay for big birthday meal )
We give him a cheer, and point him to the bar.
Owner comes out, says firstly sorry what envelope, then claims a cleaner must have mistaken it for rubbish and binned it , oh and the bins have just been emptied.
The police get called, listen the the bar owners story and say tough, moneys been accidental binned, get over it. Guys not happy but knows there is nowt he can do !
martinbiz said:
Digger said:
matjk said:
I watched someone lose £800 in Benidorm last month not related to this but intresting
English guy comes in with family group of about 15
They have a few cocktails and leave.
We decide to move to their table as better view of the TV
Waitress comes over to clear as we sit, one of our group spots a clear PO envelope full of Euros on table.
We pick it up and say this belongs to the lot just in here, 2 of our group go to see if they can spot them, no luck as its a busy sea front .
Waitress says she will give the money to the owner for safe keeping behind the bar.
30 minutes later guys turns up in a panic looking for his money ( to pay for big birthday meal )
We give him a cheer, and point him to the bar.
Owner comes out, says firstly sorry what envelope, then claims a cleaner must have mistaken it for rubbish and binned it , oh and the bins have just been emptied.
The police get called, listen the the bar owners story and say tough, moneys been accidental binned, get over it. Guys not happy but knows there is nowt he can do !
Did the police not think to speak with the waitress?English guy comes in with family group of about 15
They have a few cocktails and leave.
We decide to move to their table as better view of the TV
Waitress comes over to clear as we sit, one of our group spots a clear PO envelope full of Euros on table.
We pick it up and say this belongs to the lot just in here, 2 of our group go to see if they can spot them, no luck as its a busy sea front .
Waitress says she will give the money to the owner for safe keeping behind the bar.
30 minutes later guys turns up in a panic looking for his money ( to pay for big birthday meal )
We give him a cheer, and point him to the bar.
Owner comes out, says firstly sorry what envelope, then claims a cleaner must have mistaken it for rubbish and binned it , oh and the bins have just been emptied.
The police get called, listen the the bar owners story and say tough, moneys been accidental binned, get over it. Guys not happy but knows there is nowt he can do !
Waitress says; “I gave it to the bar owner.”
captain_cynic said:
Psycho Warren said:
Surely a PO would have CCTV over the counter and cash area. 8k looks a lot different than 800.
The OP said it was "family run". Usually that's code for "as cheap and dodgy as possible".I don't have direct contact with them (they are my mum's friends) but I have put everything mentioned here on an email to them. My first question when told about it was 'Is there CCTV?'
roadsmash said:
martinbiz said:
roadsmash said:
???
Waitress says; “I gave it to the bar owner.”
correct...and.....Waitress says; “I gave it to the bar owner.”
matjk said:
Owner comes out...claims a cleaner must have mistaken it for rubbish and binned it , oh and the bins have just been emptied.
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