Crime and punishment
Discussion
MickC said:
But people (in fact most criminals) lie to the court all the time. How many people plead not guilty and are then found guilty? OK they don't get a discounted sentence for pleading guilty in the first place, but they don't get 4-18 months added to their sentence because they lied and said 'It wasn't me gov, I was in the pub'.
So what about the brother. He also pleaded guilty to three counts. He wasn't driving, just part of the cover up so should nothing happen to him because he wasn't speeding, or should he face the far more serious charge and she just get three points and £100. As for everyone lies in their defence, yep many/almost all do even when pleading guilty or more often lie in their instructions and their lawyers lie on their behalf. There are public interest considerations as to whether to prosecute and the double counting aspect. Judges even warn juries against assuming that lying means they are guilty. Frequently stories and defences often change a number of times during an investigation or even trial so at one point they must have been lying.
PCOJ is common law but Perjury is statute, lying in court (For material matters) is technically both but the guidelines are always go with statute if one covers the circumstances. Perjury has a very high evidential threshold, special procedures to bring prosecutions and is very rarely prosecuted.
Not to mention, we don't want people worried that if they advance a defence in a minor case they would be scared of routinely risking a much more serious penalty.
As for traffic matters I do have some reservations (Not in cases like this) - officers are so fed up with false names to avoid no insurance, no licence etc with ANPR they are, in frustration, charging with obstructing police. I understand this naturally and it is clearly a problem, especially as they tend to use real peoples details so it's a good idea. But this can have a big impact on people's future, possibly even more so post Brexit, to the extent they should be advertising it far more, in my opinion.
Edited by Graveworm on Thursday 20th December 11:20
vonhosen said:
PtCoJ does apply to others for non motoring offences (ie people who give false alibis, aid criminals in evading Police & make false allegations or plant evidence against others).
It will always be treated seriously & result in custodial sentences (whatever the initial offence) save for in extreme cases. That's to deter people from doing it.
Exactly, I remember watching the programme about the Rhys Jones murder in Liverpool, the killer (Sean Mercer) very nearly evaded prosecution due to a completely false alibi fabricated by his Mum and the relatives of the other gang members, Mercers mum served 3 years for PCoJ.It will always be treated seriously & result in custodial sentences (whatever the initial offence) save for in extreme cases. That's to deter people from doing it.
Pica-Pica said:
8 months gaol sentence was the Huhne/Pryce case. I imagine similar.
They admitted the offence and plead guilty, this fruit-loop continued with her deception and from her recent statement continues to claim her innocence which adds to her contempt to the legal system. She would be very lucky not to get 18 months IMHO.Lexington59 said:
Mad as a box of frogs.One wonders what those that voted for her are now thinking.
The leader has said she's not wanted in the party so why can't they force her out instead of asking her to resign?
Onasanya has been "administratively suspended" from Labour, and party leader Mr Corbyn said she could not remain as an MP after her conviction.
Speaking during a visit to Northampton, he said: "Obviously, she is not going to remain as the member of parliament because she been found guilty in a court of law."
The Labour Party has called on Onasanya to resign, as her behaviour "falls well below what is expected of politicians".
'Biblical company'
In a WhatsApp group for Labour MPs, she compared her situation to that of Jesus Christ after his conviction.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-cambridg...
Onasanya has been "administratively suspended" from Labour, and party leader Mr Corbyn said she could not remain as an MP after her conviction.
Speaking during a visit to Northampton, he said: "Obviously, she is not going to remain as the member of parliament because she been found guilty in a court of law."
The Labour Party has called on Onasanya to resign, as her behaviour "falls well below what is expected of politicians".
'Biblical company'
In a WhatsApp group for Labour MPs, she compared her situation to that of Jesus Christ after his conviction.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-cambridg...
iandc said:
Great result but it begs the question WHY do it in the first place? £100 plus 3 points I wouldn't have thought had a major impact on her finances or working life. After all it was 41 in a 30 limit. Not exactly breaking the sound barrier!
I think she wanted a clean licence as she had done speed awareness recently.I think she and her brother thought they had the perfect scam.
untakenname said:
The leader has said she's not wanted in the party so why can't they force her out instead of asking her to resign?
As I understand it she is still an MP as she has been elected as one, although the Labour Party can 'disown' her and she therefore becomes an independent MP. However the Labour party does not have the power to cease her tenure as an MP - they have many delusions of power and this is one of them. untakenname said:
Onasanya has been "administratively suspended" from Labour, and party leader Mr Corbyn said she could not remain as an MP after her conviction.
Speaking during a visit to Northampton, he said: "Obviously, she is not going to remain as the member of parliament because she been found guilty in a court of law."
Corbyn is wrong. I think she needs to be sentenced to a jail term of a year or more for her to have to step down. Speaking during a visit to Northampton, he said: "Obviously, she is not going to remain as the member of parliament because she been found guilty in a court of law."
untakenname said:
'Biblical company'
In a WhatsApp group for Labour MPs, she compared her situation to that of Jesus Christ after his conviction.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-cambridg...
.... which is a shame as it shows how much Corbyn and the Labour Party have in common with Onasanya - they are both quite deranged (and I am not referring to Onasanya's Christian Convictions when I say that, I refer to her theology). In a WhatsApp group for Labour MPs, she compared her situation to that of Jesus Christ after his conviction.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-cambridg...
The Surveyor said:
iandc said:
…….. begs the question WHY do it in the first place? …..
arrogance, stupidity, or just intrinsically dishonest 
Onasanya's mistake was to choose something where the consequences would definitely come back to bite her on the a**e.
2Btoo said:
untakenname said:
The leader has said she's not wanted in the party so why can't they force her out instead of asking her to resign?
As I understand it she is still an MP as she has been elected as one, although the Labour Party can 'disown' her and she therefore becomes an independent MP. However the Labour party does not have the power to cease her tenure as an MP - they have many delusions of power and this is one of them.2Btoo said:
untakenname said:
Onasanya has been "administratively suspended" from Labour, and party leader Mr Corbyn said she could not remain as an MP after her conviction.
She might
Speaking during a visit to Northampton, he said: "Obviously, she is not going to remain as the member of parliament because she been found guilty in a court of law."
Corbyn is wrong. I think she needs to be sentenced to a jail term of a year or more for her to have to step down.She might
Speaking during a visit to Northampton, he said: "Obviously, she is not going to remain as the member of parliament because she been found guilty in a court of law."
If Corbyn had said 'remain as the Labour Member of Parliament' then that would have been an accurate statement.
The whip has been withdrawn and I can't see it being restored, so she is a busted flush as far as her political future is concerned.
She should fall on her sword and go. Before, hopefully, the court does it for her.
As for comparing herself to Jesus, Moses, and Daniel - https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1981/34/secti...
If she learns some humility and keeps her head down she could yet do some good for society (as did John Profumo).
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshi...
She has now been jailed, although she has said she will appeal.
She has now been jailed, although she has said she will appeal.
cv01jw said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshi...
She has now been jailed, although she has said she will appeal.
She's unappealing. She has now been jailed, although she has said she will appeal.
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