Inheritance question.....
Discussion
bladebloke said:
TTmonkey said:
Yes you are correct. The reason why I’m asking is to find out if that’s the right course of action, or not. If everyone said ‘no your wife has no case’ then I would know that this would be pointless.
Food for thought.
The point is that you want a qualified person, who can ask you all the relevant questions (and who carries appropriate insurance) to be the one telling you what routes forward there might be (or not be). Food for thought.
BTW, I should think that the correct answer is probably, at high level, “it depends what the will says”. But the professional you see would be able to tell you if that’s right or wrong, how you might be able to get a copy of the will (if probable hasn’t already been granted - if it has, its a public document and easy to obtain) and, if it doesn’t say what you’d like it to, if there’s any avenue for contesting it (or if there perhaps any options available other than contesting the will).
Presumably if you can afford to write off the possibility of receiving hundreds of thousands of pounds, you can afford to spend a few hundred quid on legal fees to find out if your wife has any right to that money.
Edited by bladebloke on Tuesday 15th January 06:31
When we get it, I'll decide whether to take further action based on how cut and dried the instructions are.
desolate said:
TTmonkey said:
SO another question for anyone whose dealt with a will recently...
How long once a will is registered with probate office until it gets dealt with - ie, moneys distributed etc? Or is it the other way around?
As soon as probate is granted you can distribute the assets.How long once a will is registered with probate office until it gets dealt with - ie, moneys distributed etc? Or is it the other way around?
RichB said:
Just to add that when I acted as executor for my mother I distributed small gifts and bequests at the wake following the funeral e.g. she requested her engagement ring and eternity ring plus a few bits of other jewellery to go to her female grandchildren plus there were some monetary bequests up to a few thousand where I wanted to personally hand across cheques to give it a personal touch. I then waited until her bungalow was sold before distributing the bulk of the assets. As there is a house sale in your situation you may find that nothing will be done until that is sold. p.s. The executor will have had to have got a valuation from an estate agent in order to get probate.
The complication though is that you knew the house needed to be sold, because of multiple beneficiaries in the will. If the old ladies will specifically excludes everyone except her lone surviving daughter Barbara, Babs doesn't have to sell the house.... I highly suspect that this is the case, I've not seen the house listed for sale and it was all locked up last time I past it. I suspect its all done and dusted, and that Barbara is the only named beneficiary and the money is now funding her rather extravagant lifestyle.
My mother in laws side of the family tree wont be seeing a penny. When I get a copy of the will I think this will be obvious. Maybe just grasping at straws.
What really, really grates here is that the old lady had lots of money, but her daughter (my mother in law) had nothing, and even ended up selling every piece of jewellery that she had owned recently, before her death. The only thing my wife has left are memories, photos and regrets.
Why didn't the old lady distribute her wealth long before she died? I guess its that part of being from that generation? I'd rather see people smile when they receive my money at the end of my life than them get it when they are in mourning. Perhaps I'll feel differently in 35 years time....?
This scenario is almost exactly was what happened to me. My mother died just three months before her mother did. Her mother's will left everything to her 3 daughters, one of whom was obviously my now dead mother.
My brother and myself didn't even think about getting anything from my grandmother's estate. However the two remaining sisters executed their mother's will and split the money 3 ways, and gave my brother and myself our mother's 1/3rd share.
Never knew if they had to, or just did it because they felt it 'right', I've always assumed it was because it was how it should be in a 'normal' family. I know I'd do the same with family money.
My brother and myself didn't even think about getting anything from my grandmother's estate. However the two remaining sisters executed their mother's will and split the money 3 ways, and gave my brother and myself our mother's 1/3rd share.
Never knew if they had to, or just did it because they felt it 'right', I've always assumed it was because it was how it should be in a 'normal' family. I know I'd do the same with family money.
Aretnap said:
If I read it correctly, in general the children of a deceased beneficiary do not automatically inherit the beneficiary's share. However there is a rather big exception where the beneficiary is a descendent of the testator, in which case more distant descendents do inherit by default. This is covered by s33 of the Wills Act.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Will4and1Vict...
https://www.finalduties.co.uk/what-happens-when-a-...
In other words, if Elsie had left money to her friends, or her siblings, then the children of any friends or siblings who died before her would not inherit their parent's share, unless the will said otherwise. However because she left it to her daughters, the opposite applies - the grandchildren do inherit, unless the will says otherwise.
So yes, Susan should get whatever was left to Belinda - unless the will made other provisions. Note the caveat - you really need to know precisely what the will said.
^ This.https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Will4and1Vict...
https://www.finalduties.co.uk/what-happens-when-a-...
In other words, if Elsie had left money to her friends, or her siblings, then the children of any friends or siblings who died before her would not inherit their parent's share, unless the will said otherwise. However because she left it to her daughters, the opposite applies - the grandchildren do inherit, unless the will says otherwise.
So yes, Susan should get whatever was left to Belinda - unless the will made other provisions. Note the caveat - you really need to know precisely what the will said.
I echo what Aretnap has said - the devil will be in the detail and much will turn on the way the will was worded, but in the absence of contrary intention the deceased daughter's share should pass to her own daughter rather than falling into the residue and so passing to the aunt.
OP, if there's any doubt in your mind at all, it's worth spending a few hundred quid to go and get some preliminary advice from a solicitor.
Edited by Lurking Lawyer on Tuesday 15th January 13:51
The key piece of law here is Section 33(1) of the Wills Act 1837. This provides that:
Where a will contains a gift to a child of the testator; and
the child dies before the testator, leaving a child of their own (the testator’s grandchild); and
that grandchild is still living at the testator’s death,
then, unless a contrary intention appears by the Will the gift will take effect as a gift to the grandchild living at the testator’s death.
In your case, Elsie left her estate to Barbara and Belinda.
Belinda died, leaving a daughter, Susan.
Elsie then dies, while Susan is still alive.
Section 33 says that Susan inherits her mother’s share unless the Will says otherwise.
It is possible to exclude Section 33 in a Will, and I’ve occasionally done so, generally where the testator has fallen out with a grandchild, but it’s very rare, and I would be extremely surprised if Elsie’s Will contained such a provision.
Consequently (although you can’t be 100% sure until you’ve seen the copy Will) Susan should inherit half the estate.
I’m surprised that you haven’t been kept informed by the executors. Who are they? Is the estate being dealt with by solicitors? Normally the solicitors contact the beneficiaries fairly soon after the death, and I can’t understand how your wife has been left in this situation.
Where a will contains a gift to a child of the testator; and
the child dies before the testator, leaving a child of their own (the testator’s grandchild); and
that grandchild is still living at the testator’s death,
then, unless a contrary intention appears by the Will the gift will take effect as a gift to the grandchild living at the testator’s death.
In your case, Elsie left her estate to Barbara and Belinda.
Belinda died, leaving a daughter, Susan.
Elsie then dies, while Susan is still alive.
Section 33 says that Susan inherits her mother’s share unless the Will says otherwise.
It is possible to exclude Section 33 in a Will, and I’ve occasionally done so, generally where the testator has fallen out with a grandchild, but it’s very rare, and I would be extremely surprised if Elsie’s Will contained such a provision.
Consequently (although you can’t be 100% sure until you’ve seen the copy Will) Susan should inherit half the estate.
I’m surprised that you haven’t been kept informed by the executors. Who are they? Is the estate being dealt with by solicitors? Normally the solicitors contact the beneficiaries fairly soon after the death, and I can’t understand how your wife has been left in this situation.
Pro Bono said:
I’m surprised that you haven’t been kept informed by the executors. Who are they? Is the estate being dealt with by solicitors? Normally the solicitors contact the beneficiaries fairly soon after the death, and I can’t understand how your wife has been left in this situation.
Good clear response. As to the point above... what's the betting the remaining sister is the sole executor? 
Pro Bono said:
The key piece of law here is Section 33(1) of the Wills Act 1837. This provides that:
Where a will contains a gift to a child of the testator; and
the child dies before the testator, leaving a child of their own (the testator’s grandchild); and
that grandchild is still living at the testator’s death,
then, unless a contrary intention appears by the Will the gift will take effect as a gift to the grandchild living at the testator’s death.
In your case, Elsie left her estate to Barbara and Belinda.
Belinda died, leaving a daughter, Susan.
Elsie then dies, while Susan is still alive.
Section 33 says that Susan inherits her mother’s share unless the Will says otherwise.
It is possible to exclude Section 33 in a Will, and I’ve occasionally done so, generally where the testator has fallen out with a grandchild, but it’s very rare, and I would be extremely surprised if Elsie’s Will contained such a provision.
Consequently (although you can’t be 100% sure until you’ve seen the copy Will) Susan should inherit half the estate.
I’m surprised that you haven’t been kept informed by the executors. Who are they? Is the estate being dealt with by solicitors? Normally the solicitors contact the beneficiaries fairly soon after the death, and I can’t understand how your wife has been left in this situation.
Thanks for that. we wait for the will....Where a will contains a gift to a child of the testator; and
the child dies before the testator, leaving a child of their own (the testator’s grandchild); and
that grandchild is still living at the testator’s death,
then, unless a contrary intention appears by the Will the gift will take effect as a gift to the grandchild living at the testator’s death.
In your case, Elsie left her estate to Barbara and Belinda.
Belinda died, leaving a daughter, Susan.
Elsie then dies, while Susan is still alive.
Section 33 says that Susan inherits her mother’s share unless the Will says otherwise.
It is possible to exclude Section 33 in a Will, and I’ve occasionally done so, generally where the testator has fallen out with a grandchild, but it’s very rare, and I would be extremely surprised if Elsie’s Will contained such a provision.
Consequently (although you can’t be 100% sure until you’ve seen the copy Will) Susan should inherit half the estate.
I’m surprised that you haven’t been kept informed by the executors. Who are they? Is the estate being dealt with by solicitors? Normally the solicitors contact the beneficiaries fairly soon after the death, and I can’t understand how your wife has been left in this situation.
There has been no falling out whatsoever. however, the old lady was very controlling and had certain views that would lead me to believe that she would stipulate a succession order in her will, if you see what I mean.
Piersman2 said:
Pro Bono said:
I’m surprised that you haven’t been kept informed by the executors. Who are they? Is the estate being dealt with by solicitors? Normally the solicitors contact the beneficiaries fairly soon after the death, and I can’t understand how your wife has been left in this situation.
Good clear response. As to the point above... what's the betting the remaining sister is the sole executor? So it might be that she's in no rush and things will happen after she returns. Yes she's probably the sole executor. I've no idea.
TTmonkey said:
Piersman2 said:
Pro Bono said:
I’m surprised that you haven’t been kept informed by the executors. Who are they? Is the estate being dealt with by solicitors? Normally the solicitors contact the beneficiaries fairly soon after the death, and I can’t understand how your wife has been left in this situation.
Good clear response. As to the point above... what's the betting the remaining sister is the sole executor? So it might be that she's in no rush and things will happen after she returns. Yes she's probably the sole executor. I've no idea.
Get that copy will.
Once you have that book appointment with solicitor to go through it with you and your wife (if she wants to look into it that is!) and take it from there.
If there is an inheritance that she is entitled to then i am very surprised that no mention of it has been made which is why i am sitting here thinking that this could turn very nasty or, sadly, grandma in law didn't think things through.
RichB said:
alfie2244 said:
RichB said:
TTmonkey said:
... she's probably the sole executor. I've no idea.
Why not ask her the direct question? alfie2244 said:
Indeed but I personally wouldn't want to alert her or the executors to any potential issues / challenges until I have seen the Will for myself and perhaps taken legal advice.
This really. I don’t want to cause any offence or bad feelings unless there’s a real case to be looked at. One of my wife’s last meaningful conversations with her own mother was about the old woman’s will. We didn’t want to know, didn’t want to talk about it, but wife’s mother stated that the old woman had a lot of money that she had decided to leave it all to her grand daughters, not her daughters. However this appears to have been unfounded, as we knew the location of the will (it was kept at mother in laws house) and we know it hadn’t been updated recently to reflect this new information. When the old lady died her daughter requested the will returned to her. It’s hard to believe that the last meaningful conversation has turned out to be some kind of bizarre untruth.
When we see the will, we will see that either wife has been stitched up, excluded, or has a case for a share.
TTmonkey said:
Well we've not heard a word. However, the will went to probate in mid December, and the sister, Barbara, is taking and extended annual holiday in Australia, usually from Nov thru March, where her daughter lives.
So it might be that she's in no rush and things will happen after she returns. Yes she's probably the sole executor. I've no idea.
Hopefully she's properly insured and secured the house before jetting off.So it might be that she's in no rush and things will happen after she returns. Yes she's probably the sole executor. I've no idea.
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