Found an abandoned vintage car, how can I claim it.

[DS240]

You’ve no idea whether there are relatives with a claim, or the estate and possessions are now care of the state.

Because something is empty and unused doesn’t mean it’s a free for all to take what you like.

At the moment, the only solutions are illegal, immoral or simply wrong, no matter how it’s worded.

Try finding out factual information on ownership and go from there.

I know of empty properties with vehicles in the garages, but I’d never dream of just helping myself because it’s been there a while and no one seems to own them.

[InitialDave]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

No, it is not. I'm not arguing the OP should just take the car.

[fushion julz]

Some (many) years ago I owned a very poorly 1962 Mini. It was terminally rusty and had non-functioning brakes, which meant it was not driveable.

The place I was living at the time was on a private (unmade) road and the car was parked on that road. I moved out and the car was still in the same place awaiting removal/disposal.
I received a call from the local constabulary to tell me (as the registered keeper/owner) that they had apprehended a person attempting to steal the wheels from the car and what would I like to happen. I explained the situation and they offered the solution options:
Either:
1. prosecute the perp. and then move the car myself
Or:
2. not prosecute them and "gift" them the vehicle (along with the obviously desirable wheels) on the condition it gets removed.

They opted for option 2 and I heard no more other than to sign over the V5c

[LunarOne]

Breadvan72 said:

You argument is that because once there was only lawless anarchy and force, that makes it ok to abandon the structure of rules we have put in place to replace lawless anarchy and force and just go back to take what you can. You are the secret love child of Jacob Rees Mogg and Ayn Rand AICMFP.

That's not my argument. I'm not actually arguing anything. I'm just pointing out that the concept of ownership is not a universal law. It's a human one. And human laws are laws just because someone says they are.

As for Jacob Rees Mogg. I'd happily kick his beloved Brexit where it belongs. Up his arse.

[Paul_M3]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

That’s not even close to being the same logic, is it?

Taxes are money you OWE, and if people don’t pay them everybody suffers. It’s still taking money away from the public purse. How you can draw an anology from that to taking away a car that is almost certainly never going to claimed I’m not quite sure?

You’ll also notice I didn’t in any way advocate just taking the car. In fact I quite clearly stated that I’d unfortunately watch it rot to nothing and become worthless to everybody, as I’d never consider just taking something that didn’t belong to me.

FFS

[Sheepshanks]

sospan said:

Local councils can appropriate a property that is vacant and has been for some time. I THINK recompense to the owner would be made if traceable. This was introduced to help reduce vacant properties and help housing needs. Correct me if I am wrong!

That power does exist but it's very rarely used.

Wonder what's happening over the property's council tax?

[Derek Smith]

Breadvan72 said:

Derek Smith said:

To be theft, the property must have an owner.

Abandoned property has no owner by definition. If you have a reasonable, and supportable, belief that the owner of the vehicle abandoned the vehicle then you may take possession of it.

There are some civil caveats re property. These may or may not have an effect on whether you can be sued. I have no idea.

There is a classic case where a woman threw away a present she had been given by her boyfriend. It landed in a garden. A neighbour saw the contretemps and liberated said item. The neighbour was charged with theft but the defence of no owner was upheld.

Ignore this utter tosh.

That's a fine argument you've made there, BV, and difficult to argue against.

I'd appreciate being you letting me know if you suggesting that one can steal property that has no owner? Are you suggesting that property abandoned is owned? Are you admitting not knowing of the case I referred to? It's difficult for me, and, I assume, anyone else to work out what you mean by such a terse, and somewhat rude, statement.

[selmahoose]

Derek Smith said:

There is a classic case where a woman threw away a package she had been given by her boyfriend. It landed in a garden. A neighbour saw the contretemps and liberated said item. The neighbour was charged with possession of the kilo of coke the package contained but the defence of no owner was upheld.

Is this hypothetical scenario . a) likely or b) unlikely

or, indeed, does this explain why gangstas fling packages of drugs out of fast moving cars with the mob in hot pursuit? "defence of no owner m'lud"!

How, in your original fairytale, did the woman come to be charged? Did she report herself, or did the owner of the present complain to police that the neighbour picked up the present when she flung it away in the contretemps (as, presumably, was witnessed by the present's giver during the contretemps) ?

[Graveworm]

Hol said:

I said that dumping an old fridge by the side of the road is known as fly tipping.

Are you saying it isn't?

Sorry, quoted wrong message.

[NotBenny]

Why are people talking about abandoned items vs this car, which (as far as we can tell) belongs to the state since the previous owner died without a will.

Lobbing a fridge in a ditch isn’t the same as owning a fridge and dying without a will.

[Too Late]

This thread reminded me of this place. Drive passed this at the weekend. The windows of all the cars were not sale signs, they all said "Not For Sale"

https://goo.gl/maps/D7PUNawCmLT2

That's the location for those interested

[Du1point8]

what car is it?

[Hol]

Too Late said:

This thread reminded me of this place. Drive passed this at the weekend. The windows of all the cars were not sale signs, they all said "Not For Sale"

https://goo.gl/maps/D7PUNawCmLT2

That's the location for those interested

We used to get a lot of that, whe;I was a kid.

Mostly from people fed up with banger racers askinging if the laid up Cortina or Granada was for sale.

People still ingnored them and asked anyway.

[pavarotti1980]

Derek Smith said:

That's a fine argument you've made there, BV, and difficult to argue against.

I'd appreciate being you letting me know if you suggesting that one can steal property that has no owner? Are you suggesting that property abandoned is owned? Are you admitting not knowing of the case I referred to? It's difficult for me, and, I assume, anyone else to work out what you mean by such a terse, and somewhat rude, statement.

He is a lawyer (i managed to work that out from his constant self gratification in telling everyone his elevated status in society) therefore he is correct no matter what

Edited by pavarotti1980 on Friday 18th January 16:46

[otolith]

pavarotti1980 said:

He is a lawyer (i managed to work that out from his constant self gratification in telling everyone his elevated status in society) therefore he is correct no matter what

Yeah, we've had enough of experts. Just because somebody knows what they're talking about after studying it intensively and working in it for decades doesn't make their opinion any more valid than anyone else's. I reckon.

[LunarOne]

Hol said:

We used to get a lot of that, when was a kid.

Mostly from people fed up with banger racers askinging if the laid up Cortina or Granada was for sale.

People still ignored them and asked anyway.

I had to take my daily to a tyre place as it was leaking air. It happened that the only place that could look at it was Kwik Fit. Last time I took it there a couple of years ago, one of them said "cor, it's got some mileage on it. Do you wanna sell it to me? I'll weld the diff up and drift it."

This time I got more or less the same question. Do Kwik Fit fitters regularly scope out old high mileage RWD cars "wot for driftin', innit" ?

[pavarotti1980]

otolith said:

Yeah, we've had enough of experts. Just because somebody knows what they're talking about after studying it intensively and working in it for decades doesn't make their opinion any more valid than anyone else's. I reckon.

Nobody mentioned what you have posted. Plenty of lawyers on PH without a chip on their shoulder.

Has he studied and practiced every area of law for decades? Nope didn't think so

[otolith]

I respect Derek, but he’s a retired copper. Breadvan72 is a practising lawyer. I would be inclined to believe either of them on a matter like this, but when they disagree on a point of law, I'm going to go with the lawyer.

If you needed legal advice, who would you go to?

[Red Devil]

LunarOne said:

Do Kwik Fit fitters regularly scope out old high mileage RWD cars "wot for driftin', innit" ?

No idea. My cars are allergic to them.

[pavarotti1980]

otolith said:

I respect Derek, but he’s a retired copper. Breadvan72 is a practising lawyer. I would be inclined to believe either of them on a matter like this, but when they disagree on a point of law, I'm going to go with the lawyer.

If you needed legal advice, who would you go to?

Advice can be given without the side order of chips.

It would depend on the type of legal advice. If I needed criminal law advice I wouldn't be picking up the phone to an employment lawyer. Same as if you had suspected Crohn's disease, you wouldn't want to be referred to an orthopaedic surgeon. Thet are specialists in one field and not a jack of all trades.