RE: Do speed cameras cause accidents?
Discussion
safespeed said:
I think I'll tender for the job and then just submit Paul's site
Sorry Paul, why don't you go for the tender?
I'm working on putting a team together. It would need to involve university researchers, and I have a couple in mind. Watch this space.
It would be good (and make a change) to see someone who actually cares about road saftey get the contract.
Good luck Paul
AMG Merc said:Yes concentration is diverted at crucial times - it's happened already...
Agree with previous comments about "scanning" for cameras taking our concentration off the safe driving game - I even scan backwards to see if I've just passed one - this shouldn't be necessary and can't help road safety! 
North Wales Daily Post said:
Elderly man died after car hit him
A PENSIONER was knocked over by a car as he crossed a road just 40 metres from a controlled pedestrian crossing.
Retired mechanic Noah Edwards, 76, died in hospital two days after he was knocked over on the High Street in Coedpoeth, on January 13. Bachelor Mr Edwards, of Bryn Clywedog, Coedpoeth, was partially sighted and had been an abuser of alcohol, north east Wales coroner John Hughes told a Flint inquest.
As he came along the High Street in Coedpoeth, the driver slowed down because he knew it was a speed trap area.
"I checked my speed, looked up again and saw a figure in front of me and slammed on the brakes. He just seemed to be stood there, I didn't see where the pedestrian came from," he said.
dugsud said:
Slightly off-topic but how many of you think, as I do that I'm definately not as safe a driver as I was before fixed cameras appeared.
Instead of driving instinctivly at the safe speed for the road & traffic conditions, concentrating 100% on the road, I now find myself constantly scanning the middle distance for cameras too.
These cameras make me drive in a way that worries me a bit and as an ex advanced instructor for 15 years I really feel my driving has suffered in an adverse way.
Anyone else feel this way?
Yes - I have said the same in another thread recently - the effect started after I got 3 points for doing 84mph on the nearly empty A1 - hardly a major crime, except in the anti-car eyes of Nottinghamshire's authorities.
turbobloke said:
Agree with previous comments about "scanning" for cameras taking our concentration off the safe driving game - I even scan backwards to see if I've just passed one - this shouldn't be necessary and can't help road safety!
Yes concentration is diverted at crucial times - it's happened already...
North Wales Daily Post said:
Elderly man died after car hit him
A PENSIONER was knocked over by a car as he crossed a road just 40 metres from a controlled pedestrian crossing.
Retired mechanic Noah Edwards, 76, died in hospital two days after he was knocked over on the High Street in Coedpoeth, on January 13. Bachelor Mr Edwards, of Bryn Clywedog, Coedpoeth, was partially sighted and had been an abuser of alcohol, north east Wales coroner John Hughes told a Flint inquest.
As he came along the High Street in Coedpoeth, the driver slowed down because he knew it was a speed trap area.
"I checked my speed, looked up again and saw a figure in front of me and slammed on the brakes. He just seemed to be stood there, I didn't see where the pedestrian came from," he said.
bloody hell i live literally about 2 miles from there, didnt hear about that though. I know the speed camera they mean. It is in such a bad location. It is on quite a steep hill, even if you just freewheel down the hill you are doing about 40mph.
Its definately true about scanning for cameras too. Dont know about everyone else, but i find that sticking to 30mph seems so slow that i almost loose concentration, where as if i am driving at a speed I feel safe, i am much more aware
Good luck to Paul with his team - he's going to need it!
I've worked with the public sector, and frankly this job will already have somebody earmarked for it. There'll be brown envelopes involved, and anyone entering for tender will think they've done well, trounced the opposition, but will lose on some daft technicality conjured up to remove the team!
I've worked with the public sector, and frankly this job will already have somebody earmarked for it. There'll be brown envelopes involved, and anyone entering for tender will think they've done well, trounced the opposition, but will lose on some daft technicality conjured up to remove the team!
this story brought tears of laughter to my eyes. Here in Australia, our government is similarly revenue crazed. However, recently the Victorian government found out they may have handed out $25 milAUD in bogus fines 'cos their cameras were on the fritz.
For example a Datsun 120Y got pinged at the equivalent of 103mph, when it was shown later that it could only reach 73mph flat out.
Some time ago my son drove me through the middle of Preston - it was when I was on full maternity leave und it was before he passed his test. We went on longest practice drive 
und gave him practice of unfamiliar roads. (I think it to be a biggest failing of driver training that they drive und practise on roads they know well 
It does not develop COAST properly ....
)
Anyway - at the time I was able to take luxury of observing other driver behaviour - und I regret I took no video footage -even though had the cam in the car - Paulie would have welcomed this non-contrived for camera evidence.
There was one road - A6 running through centre - und I saw one scam at the bottom of a very steep gradient on a dual carriageway - no where near traffic, lights, roundabout or junction - und given the sized of the railings in central reserve - no danger of pedestrain. This one ist money raiser - fullest stop - und the drivers did
On approach to others - I saw drivers look at speedos - und it was obvious to me sat in passenger seat whilst my eldest drove at steadiest 27 mph (no wavers
But he had help of useful gadget on this run as we were in "enemy territory" that the majority of these drivers (und I noted the few who did not got pinged 
) were checking speedos very often as they approached the scams und it was equally obvious to me that they checked mirror to ensure no ping afterwards.... und we did come across one minor rear ender on this busy stretch of A6 where all car drivers of fullest spectrum of ages were speedo gawping - but have no idea if one slowed too suddenly or if other was mithering over a speedo and a ping...
Und they say ist "safety" Und this ist because the good folk of Lancs know that the tolerances are low und they only get one Speed Aware course....
Of course - ist all money making und not one of those scams on this A6 - und these were all less than mile apart was justified. Und the other one on a different 50 mph dual carriageway in this area? There was an accident - but this accident involved one drugged driver und a stolen car und a police car....und this was in the local Lancs Evening News at the time. Und they placed a scam near the spot....
und gave him practice of unfamiliar roads. (I think it to be a biggest failing of driver training that they drive und practise on roads they know well It does not develop COAST properly ....) Anyway - at the time I was able to take luxury of observing other driver behaviour - und I regret I took no video footage -even though had the cam in the car - Paulie would have welcomed this non-contrived for camera evidence.
There was one road - A6 running through centre - und I saw one scam at the bottom of a very steep gradient on a dual carriageway - no where near traffic, lights, roundabout or junction - und given the sized of the railings in central reserve - no danger of pedestrain. This one ist money raiser - fullest stop - und the drivers did
On approach to others - I saw drivers look at speedos - und it was obvious to me sat in passenger seat whilst my eldest drove at steadiest 27 mph (no wavers
But he had help of useful gadget on this run as we were in "enemy territory" that the majority of these drivers (und I noted the few who did not got pinged ) were checking speedos very often as they approached the scams und it was equally obvious to me that they checked mirror to ensure no ping afterwards.... und we did come across one minor rear ender on this busy stretch of A6 where all car drivers of fullest spectrum of ages were speedo gawping - but have no idea if one slowed too suddenly or if other was mithering over a speedo and a ping... Und they say ist "safety"
Und this ist because the good folk of Lancs know that the tolerances are low und they only get one Speed Aware course.... Of course - ist all money making und not one of those scams on this A6 - und these were all less than mile apart was justified. Und the other one on a different 50 mph dual carriageway in this area? There was an accident - but this accident involved one drugged driver und a stolen car und a police car....und this was in the local Lancs Evening News at the time. Und they placed a scam near the spot....
Another example: I was travelling home from work about 3 weeks ago in a 40 mph limit at the heinous speed of 45 mph. I noticed a large white van on the opposite side of the road in the distance, it held my attention for some time as I looked for "distinguishing marks".
Finally I decided that it was "just a van" and looked back to see a motorcycle heading straght for me, i.e. overtaking the parked van. I would have seen him earlier had I not been distracted, as it was, I made room quickly by moving to my left.
My inattention was wholly due to the policies of the scamers and could have resulted in a 80 mph head on collision. Furthermore, even if I had NOT been speeding the result would have been the same, my attention to the road would have still been drawn away to the van and the speedo. Safety cameras.........Pah!!! We're all driving around paranoid!
Just hope I didn't scare the biker too much!
>> Edited by 8Pack on Thursday 19th May 12:10
Finally I decided that it was "just a van" and looked back to see a motorcycle heading straght for me, i.e. overtaking the parked van. I would have seen him earlier had I not been distracted, as it was, I made room quickly by moving to my left.
My inattention was wholly due to the policies of the scamers and could have resulted in a 80 mph head on collision. Furthermore, even if I had NOT been speeding the result would have been the same, my attention to the road would have still been drawn away to the van and the speedo. Safety cameras.........Pah!!! We're all driving around paranoid!
Just hope I didn't scare the biker too much!
>> Edited by 8Pack on Thursday 19th May 12:10
yes i agree 100% that cameras can affect your driving and can sometimes cause accidents whenever i see a gatso or truvelo even a scamera van my eyes are jammed in the dials of my car i do 25 sometimes just in case my reading is off a little ,i pass i board every morning which flashes at you if you go over 30 its outside a school great idea kinda embarrasses you if you speed but my clocks are saying 30mph and the board is 27-28,id like to know how much 'play' you have before your zapped so if you go past one at say 35 your not taking it out on your partner loosing sleep and not eating for 14 days waiting for the NIP form to fall on the mat!!
daveyctvr said:
i pass i board every morning which flashes at you if you go over 30 its outside a school great idea kinda embarrasses you if you speed
Some of those interactive driver signals are set to deliberately read high so you get the warning just below the pre-set speed (or speed limit). Not sure this is helpful, it could start to bring these signals into disrepute like speed limits and cameras. That would be a shame since the Transport Research Laboratory recently proved their safety benefit is real (unlike the spurious claims for GATSOs) and they're a lot cheaper too.
YES THEY CAN CAUSE ACCIDENTS. I have posted this elswhere, but just for this thread here it is again.
Me travelling in Volvo S80T5, 70 mph (A90 has lots of cameras) in cruise control.
coming up behing lorry going slower, so check mirror, and see a car trucking up the outside lane (dual carriageway), I wait until he passes me, (I am a curtious driver), mirror check, move to outside land, still in cruise control. Still doing 70.
As the car whom I have let pass me first, passes the lorry, he sees a speed camera, he SLAMS on his breakes, causing me to slam on mine to prevent a rear end. Yes I know you will all say "He was driving too fast", but we all know that, but then how long do you wait after a car has passed you to pull out, I could see before the manouevour that the road ahead of the lorry was clear, and had no indication that the car would slam on the anchors.
Me travelling in Volvo S80T5, 70 mph (A90 has lots of cameras) in cruise control.
coming up behing lorry going slower, so check mirror, and see a car trucking up the outside lane (dual carriageway), I wait until he passes me, (I am a curtious driver), mirror check, move to outside land, still in cruise control. Still doing 70.
As the car whom I have let pass me first, passes the lorry, he sees a speed camera, he SLAMS on his breakes, causing me to slam on mine to prevent a rear end. Yes I know you will all say "He was driving too fast", but we all know that, but then how long do you wait after a car has passed you to pull out, I could see before the manouevour that the road ahead of the lorry was clear, and had no indication that the car would slam on the anchors.
what is the bet they discover camera cause accident in other places and declare a new system is required to cover every inch of all roads, by any chance I bet it will easily plug in to an existing system....
There you go I have written the summary of this report for them,,,,mind how you go
There you go I have written the summary of this report for them,,,,mind how you go
dugsud said:But weren't you scanning the middle distance as part of your 100% concentration? Mind you, if you were "driving instinctively" you probably weren't. Advanced driving requires a mixture of unconscious and conscious competence, most drivers haven't got out of the unconsciously incompetent box of the Boston Square - Streaky
Slightly off-topic but how many of you think, as I do that I'm definately not as safe a driver as I was before fixed cameras appeared.
Instead of driving instinctivly at the safe speed for the road & traffic conditions, concentrating 100% on the road, I now find myself constantly scanning the middle distance for cameras too.
I'm sure many people have noticed the great many accidents reported which have occurred on the M4 since the cameras were installed.
Is it that the same number of accidents are occuring but are being reported because of the new (revenue) cameras, in which case the cameras have (of course) made no difference, or is the situation now worse since the cameras were installed?
It would be interesting to know which it is.
Is it that the same number of accidents are occuring but are being reported because of the new (revenue) cameras, in which case the cameras have (of course) made no difference, or is the situation now worse since the cameras were installed?
It would be interesting to know which it is.
havoc said:
Yep, every man and his dog is now paranoid about parked white vans and estate cars on top of bridges...which will cause lapses of attention and concentration.
"You're not being paranoid if they are out to get you!"
Yes, absolutely right. You can see it happening as you approach the known spots. It's a crazy policy.
What makes it worse is that the vans do not have to have a standard livery so you can never tell what it is until you get close -- you have to treat every such sighting as the enemy.
Passed a known spot this afternoon. Sure enough the scam van was there. But the queue of traffic I'm following along this 60-limit (NSL) suddenly slows to <40 as the numpty in front realises (half-way down the road past the brow of the hill where they get you) that it's a camera van and brakes!!! Despite only doing 55 anyway! Everyone else was too close and start nose-diving as they nail the brakes to avoid an accident!
FFS! Some people shouldn't have licenses!
FFS! Some people shouldn't have licenses!
havoc said:
Passed a known spot this afternoon. Sure enough the scam van was there. But the queue of traffic I'm following along this 60-limit (NSL) suddenly slows to <40 as the numpty in front realises (half-way down the road past the brow of the hill where they get you) that it's a camera van and brakes!!! Despite only doing 55 anyway! Everyone else was too close and start nose-diving as they nail the brakes to avoid an accident!
FFS! Some people shouldn't have licenses!
I admit that I am one of those that reacts as you describe.
See camera,
hit brakes,
check mirror,
check speedo,
check what limit is in force.
In that order. It has to be that in that order. I do *not* want any more points on my license. I *can* afford to repair my car if someone runs into the back of me - *technically* it wouldn't be my fault anyway would it? (Another arse-about-face law IMHO).
Of course these actions are more dangerous than simply carrying on at a safe steady speed.
Yes, I have tried driving at the legal limits. Honestly, I have, and I simply cannot keep it up. I always end up driving at the natural speed for the road and that often means a few mph over whatever is legal.
The emphasis needs to be put back on eradicating dangerous driving, not on enforcing arbitrary speed limits. It is all about money isn't it?
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff