Another dealer tale of woe - falsified service history
Discussion
Hello guys
I recently bought a car which cut straight to the chase I have found has a falsified service history. Two service invoices have been made up with random invoice numbers etc. I contacted the garage who's invoice it says it is and he said he doesn't replace timing belts, never done work for this customer, the invoice layout is completely wrong.
Further the telephone number is missing a digit from the invoice and also the address is not entirely accurate.
I asked the dealer before purchasing through text what the service history status was. He replied saying timing belt has been replaced last October and it has 3 main dealer services and two independent services. The two independent are the potentially fraudulent ones
Am I within my rights to reject this car based on it being missold or was this my job to check before I bought the car? It has been around 12 days since I purchased
Thanks in advance
I recently bought a car which cut straight to the chase I have found has a falsified service history. Two service invoices have been made up with random invoice numbers etc. I contacted the garage who's invoice it says it is and he said he doesn't replace timing belts, never done work for this customer, the invoice layout is completely wrong.
Further the telephone number is missing a digit from the invoice and also the address is not entirely accurate.
I asked the dealer before purchasing through text what the service history status was. He replied saying timing belt has been replaced last October and it has 3 main dealer services and two independent services. The two independent are the potentially fraudulent ones
Am I within my rights to reject this car based on it being missold or was this my job to check before I bought the car? It has been around 12 days since I purchased
Thanks in advance
Blib said:
What did the dealer say when you told him of your concerns?
My dad actually contacted him yesterday as I was in a meeting regarding this however it is in my garage for a fault with the glow plugs which he supposedly had changed anyway before I picked the car up. He of course claims that he didn't make the invoices and they were given to him by the previous owner. Of course there's every chance it couldn't have been him. Also he said that this "isn't the type of person I am" and that he isn't able to check the service history of cars he buys. Clearly he can as it took a 5 minute phone conversation to find out the information myself
You seem to be suggesting that the car is not as presented.
It is, as you suggest, possible that the dealer did not falsify the invoices. It's easy enough to do nowadays. However, they would appear to have taken them at face value.
The dealer will make an offer in all likelihood and it's up to you to whether it is worth it or not.
It seems as if the car you bought was not as described.
It is, as you suggest, possible that the dealer did not falsify the invoices. It's easy enough to do nowadays. However, they would appear to have taken them at face value.
The dealer will make an offer in all likelihood and it's up to you to whether it is worth it or not.
It seems as if the car you bought was not as described.
Oh come on, you cannot possibly expect a second hand car dealer to scrutinize and police every single service invoice and stamp in a service history on every single car that passes through his hands.
Honestly, do you not think we have other things to do?
I cannot imagine a dealer worth his salt would go to those lengths to falsify a history.
But a punter after a higher px figure? Maybe.
Honestly, do you not think we have other things to do?
I cannot imagine a dealer worth his salt would go to those lengths to falsify a history.
But a punter after a higher px figure? Maybe.
Mexman said:
Oh come on, you cannot possibly expect a second hand car dealer to scrutinize and police every single service invoice and stamp in a service history on every single car that passes through his hands.
Honestly, do you not think we have other things to do?
I cannot imagine a dealer worth his salt would go to those lengths to falsify a history.
But a punter after a higher px figure? Maybe.
I'm not suggesting that. I'm suggesting that it has been mis sold with a false history. It's not my job to investigate the history of the car, the dealer should be dong this and advertising it truthfully. What information was given to me before the sale and on the advert was false which as far as I can see must be against the law?Honestly, do you not think we have other things to do?
I cannot imagine a dealer worth his salt would go to those lengths to falsify a history.
But a punter after a higher px figure? Maybe.
Derek Smith said:
You seem to be suggesting that the car is not as presented.
It is, as you suggest, possible that the dealer did not falsify the invoices. It's easy enough to do nowadays. However, they would appear to have taken them at face value.
The dealer will make an offer in all likelihood and it's up to you to whether it is worth it or not.
It seems as if the car you bought was not as described.
Yes. To be honest if the car has not been serviced during this time (worst case scenario) then it will have had 40k miles on it without a service. Certainly the pollen filter I replaced myself looked a right sorry state and hasn't been replaced for a while, and the air filter was pretty dirty as wellIt is, as you suggest, possible that the dealer did not falsify the invoices. It's easy enough to do nowadays. However, they would appear to have taken them at face value.
The dealer will make an offer in all likelihood and it's up to you to whether it is worth it or not.
It seems as if the car you bought was not as described.
Alucidnation said:
Surely you would have asked to check all this when you went to look at the car?
I did check it out, but I assumed that the two invoices were legitimate. You would assume so when buying from a dealer no?It's only been missold if the dealer was aware of the discrepancy and hid it from you.
You cannot prove that.
Like I said, you cannot expect a busy used car dealer to examine in this much detail the history of every single car that passes through his hands.
Second hand car, buyer beware.
Not everyone is interested in ametuer sleuthing, I would suggest presenting your 'evidence' to the dealer and suggesting an outcome that suits both parties.
If it were me, I would just be refunding you and moving on, life's too short and too busy to get involved in this kind of nonsense.
You cannot prove that.
Like I said, you cannot expect a busy used car dealer to examine in this much detail the history of every single car that passes through his hands.
Second hand car, buyer beware.
Not everyone is interested in ametuer sleuthing, I would suggest presenting your 'evidence' to the dealer and suggesting an outcome that suits both parties.
If it were me, I would just be refunding you and moving on, life's too short and too busy to get involved in this kind of nonsense.
Mexman said:
It's only been missold if the dealer was aware of the discrepancy and hid it from you.
You cannot prove that.
Like I said, you cannot expect a busy used car dealer to examine in this much detail the history of every single car that passes through his hands.
Second hand car, buyer beware.
Not everyone is interested in ametuer sleuthing, I would suggest presenting your 'evidence' to the dealer and suggesting an outcome that suits both parties.
If it were me, I would just be refunding you and moving on, life's too short and too busy to get involved in this kind of nonsense.
So dealers can just run around and make everything have a full service history?You cannot prove that.
Like I said, you cannot expect a busy used car dealer to examine in this much detail the history of every single car that passes through his hands.
Second hand car, buyer beware.
Not everyone is interested in ametuer sleuthing, I would suggest presenting your 'evidence' to the dealer and suggesting an outcome that suits both parties.
If it were me, I would just be refunding you and moving on, life's too short and too busy to get involved in this kind of nonsense.
The dealer advertised it as having a changed timing belt from XXX garage. The timing belt has not been changed by XXX garage, thus it has been mis sold
"Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations
Dealers must also comply with the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations (2008), which prohibit them from engaging in unfair business practices:
Giving false information – either verbally, visually or in writing, for example misrepresenting the vehicle's specification or history at any time before, during or after the transaction."
Dealers must also comply with the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations (2008), which prohibit them from engaging in unfair business practices:
Giving false information – either verbally, visually or in writing, for example misrepresenting the vehicle's specification or history at any time before, during or after the transaction."
Shiv_P said:
Mexman said:
It's only been missold if the dealer was aware of the discrepancy and hid it from you.
You cannot prove that.
Like I said, you cannot expect a busy used car dealer to examine in this much detail the history of every single car that passes through his hands.
Second hand car, buyer beware.
Not everyone is interested in ametuer sleuthing, I would suggest presenting your 'evidence' to the dealer and suggesting an outcome that suits both parties.
If it were me, I would just be refunding you and moving on, life's too short and too busy to get involved in this kind of nonsense.
So dealers can just run around and make everything have a full service history?You cannot prove that.
Like I said, you cannot expect a busy used car dealer to examine in this much detail the history of every single car that passes through his hands.
Second hand car, buyer beware.
Not everyone is interested in ametuer sleuthing, I would suggest presenting your 'evidence' to the dealer and suggesting an outcome that suits both parties.
If it were me, I would just be refunding you and moving on, life's too short and too busy to get involved in this kind of nonsense.
The dealer advertised it as having a changed timing belt from XXX garage. The timing belt has not been changed by XXX garage, thus it has been mis sold
We don't 'make' everything or anything have a full service history.
What comes with the car, goes with the car as you would expect.
ITS ONLY BEEN 'MISSOLD' as you put it, IF the dealer was aware OR has falsified the history himself.
But you have no proof of that, or do you??
Shiv_P said:
"Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations
Dealers must also comply with the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations (2008), which prohibit them from engaging in unfair business practices:
Giving false information – either verbally, visually or in writing, for example misrepresenting the vehicle's specification or history at any time before, during or after the transaction."
So if we assume the dealer acted in good faith when giving false information. Ie, he was taken in by the false invoices, does he still have the same obligation? That wording to me seems to assume the dealer is doing it knowingly.Dealers must also comply with the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations (2008), which prohibit them from engaging in unfair business practices:
Giving false information – either verbally, visually or in writing, for example misrepresenting the vehicle's specification or history at any time before, during or after the transaction."
Then you have the CRA which protects you which might be a better statute to rely on.
However I agree that it is the dealer that carries the can if the car turns out to be not as advertised.
Bert
How much was this car?
When are the dud invoices dated?
Would you be happy for the dealer to have the car back and arrange to have the Cambelt replaced for you with the necessary proof, therefore avoiding any conflict or rejection?
This is how I would approach it, if you are not happy with that, then refund and all move on.
Easy really.
When are the dud invoices dated?
Would you be happy for the dealer to have the car back and arrange to have the Cambelt replaced for you with the necessary proof, therefore avoiding any conflict or rejection?
This is how I would approach it, if you are not happy with that, then refund and all move on.
Easy really.
Edited by Mexman on Thursday 7th March 09:00
CRA clearly states that buying a car from a dealer the customer is entitled in law to be buying a car:
• Of satisfactory quality
• Fit for purpose, and
• As described
As I would read it, if the description contains text saying it has service history which turns out to be false then you have the right to reject the car under item 3 - regardless of whether the dealer knew it was falsified or not, the car was not as described.
Of course if this dealer then with this knowledge relists the car with the same service history you can prove categorically that they are selling a car with false documentation in an effort to deliberately defraud a customer which is a different kettle of fish.
IMO
• Of satisfactory quality
• Fit for purpose, and
• As described
As I would read it, if the description contains text saying it has service history which turns out to be false then you have the right to reject the car under item 3 - regardless of whether the dealer knew it was falsified or not, the car was not as described.
Of course if this dealer then with this knowledge relists the car with the same service history you can prove categorically that they are selling a car with false documentation in an effort to deliberately defraud a customer which is a different kettle of fish.
IMO
Speed Badger said:
It's probably more likely that the previous owner made it up to enhance the sale / px, rather than the dealer. Its not exactly adding thousands to the car is it?
Off topic: Where did that other similar (although far more serious) thread go about the Porsche 911 that was dodgy?
I think the mods were threatening to pull it down as some posters were going to name and shame, I guess they did?Off topic: Where did that other similar (although far more serious) thread go about the Porsche 911 that was dodgy?
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