RE: Government nixes speed limit hike
Wednesday 25th May 2005
80mph would surely be safe here?The Department of Transport told PistonHeads that it has no plans to increase motorway speed limits, and is more interested in enforcing current ones.
Government nixes speed limit hike
No chance of 80mph on motorways, says department
80mph would surely be safe here?
This follows PH's report on 10 May (see link below) that most people believe the motorway speed limit should be raised. As we promised in that story, we asked the newly-re-elected Secretary of State for his views on motorway speed limits.
This is the full correspondence:
As editor of a motoring Web site, I'd be keen to hear your views on motorway speed limits. If you take a look our story (link included in original email) you’ll see that it’s an issue that exercises most motorists.
Surveys show that most now believe that road safety would not be compromised by lifting the now 30+-year-old limit, which was designed for 1960s Ford Anglias with poor grip and braking capabilities, to at least 80mph. Motorways are after all Britain’s safest roads.
Raising the speed limit to accompany today’s increased pace of life and much improved safety technology in modern cars would go some way towards ameliorating the problem of getting around, universally acknowledged to be a major problem in the UK from a personal and economic/commercial perspective.
I look forward to hearing your views and to a constructive debate over road safety policy.
The response was:
Thank you for your email of 10 May addressed to Alistair Darling concerning the motorway speed limit. This has been passed to the Driver Safety Division for reply.
As you may be aware, motorways are some of our safest roads. There are several reasons why this is the case. Firstly, the motorway network is specifically designed to allow for higher speeds. Secondly vehicles travelling in opposite directions are separated by a physical barrier. In addition there are no junctions and vulnerable road users such as pedestrians are prohibited.
The Department has no desire to see the comparatively good motorway road safety record compromised by increasing the speed limit without full consideration of the potential benefits and dis-benefits of such a move. That said the Department keeps all speed limits, including that for motorways, under review to ensure they remain appropriate.
In the meantime, the Department believes it more important in road safety terms to increase compliance with the current motorway speed limit, particularly in those areas where we know excessive speed is a problem as opposed to increasing the speed limit.
I hope this is helpful.
What's clear is that there appears no chance of a review of limits resulting in upwards movement. That said, we plan to continue pressuring the Government to take a sensible real-world view of the issue.
To that end, PistonHeads has also written to Stephen Ladyman, the minister directly responsible, and received a personal reply saying that he'd be glad to talk to PistonHeads. We'll be bringing you a report of that conversation as soon as possible.
Discussion
[quote=government]The Department has no desire to see the comparatively good motorway road safety record compromised by increasing the speed limit[/quote]
Why don't they - and without a view to a fine so no scameras - find out how fast people [i]safely[/i] travel down motorways and adjust the limit accordingly?
Why don't they - and without a view to a fine so no scameras - find out how fast people [i]safely[/i] travel down motorways and adjust the limit accordingly?
This quote is "interesting":
"...the Department believes it more important in road safety terms to increase compliance with the current motorway speed limit, particularly in those areas where we know excessive speed is a problem..."
What do they mean by "problem"?
I suspect they mean plenty of people are travelling faster than the limit, rather than there being many accidents.
"...the Department believes it more important in road safety terms to increase compliance with the current motorway speed limit, particularly in those areas where we know excessive speed is a problem..."
What do they mean by "problem"?
I suspect they mean plenty of people are travelling faster than the limit, rather than there being many accidents.
While I would like to see an increase of the limit, I have to admit to agreeing with the government, albeit for different reasons.
The main issue I see is the general poor quality of driving. In fact, I think it is so bad that it gives a good argument for reducing the limit! But realistically, I think the issue of general poor drving needs to be addressed first (a whole other bag of worms) - then up the limits.
I also think it is a shame that this 'debate' often revolves around poor arguments. We all know the government do this with their biased and mis-used statistics. But in this case, the argument put by Pistonheads is weak - "Surveys show that most now believe that road safety would not be compromised by lifting ...". Surveys like this are pointless, misrepresenting and are simply making use of people's ignorance of the details of ths issue. 'Most people' do not understand the issues and are able to view it in an objective manner. If surveyed, 'most people' would probably think that there should be no taxes, but this would not work in the real world!
The main issue I see is the general poor quality of driving. In fact, I think it is so bad that it gives a good argument for reducing the limit! But realistically, I think the issue of general poor drving needs to be addressed first (a whole other bag of worms) - then up the limits.
I also think it is a shame that this 'debate' often revolves around poor arguments. We all know the government do this with their biased and mis-used statistics. But in this case, the argument put by Pistonheads is weak - "Surveys show that most now believe that road safety would not be compromised by lifting ...". Surveys like this are pointless, misrepresenting and are simply making use of people's ignorance of the details of ths issue. 'Most people' do not understand the issues and are able to view it in an objective manner. If surveyed, 'most people' would probably think that there should be no taxes, but this would not work in the real world!
james_j said:
This quote is "interesting":
"...the Department believes it more important in road safety terms to increase compliance with the current motorway speed limit, particularly in those areas where we know excessive speed is a problem..."
What do they mean by "problem"?
I suspect they mean plenty of people are travelling faster than the limit, rather than there being many accidents.
All true but what they REALLY mean is "plenty of people are travelling faster than the limit, rather than there being many accidents" but the government is not making any money out of it!!!
eein said:
While I would like to see an increase of the limit, I have to admit to agreeing with the government, albeit for different reasons.
The main issue I see is the general poor quality of driving. In fact, I think it is so bad that it gives a good argument for reducing the limit! But realistically, I think the issue of general poor drving needs to be addressed first (a whole other bag of worms) - then up the limits.
I also think it is a shame that this 'debate' often revolves around poor arguments. We all know the government do this with their biased and mis-used statistics. But in this case, the argument put by Pistonheads is weak - "Surveys show that most now believe that road safety would not be compromised by lifting ...". Surveys like this are pointless, misrepresenting and are simply making use of people's ignorance of the details of ths issue. 'Most people' do not understand the issues and are able to view it in an objective manner. If surveyed, 'most people' would probably think that there should be no taxes, but this would not work in the real world!
But the poor driving in this country wont get better until we start to give more responsibility back to the motorist.
Have you not seen the pattern of as the nanny state increases, the worse driving standards have become???
At least Mr Ladyman (I assume he's from Bangkok?)has agreed to some interaction,too often this Government just do what they want and to hell with public opinion.I doubt you'll get anywhere Ted,as the response to the 80mph debate proves,but maybe,just maybe this is the start of some meaningful dialogue for a change.I live in disillusioned hope.
huge said:
At least Mr Ladyman (I assume he's from Bangkok?)has agreed to some interaction,too often this Government just do what they want and to hell with public opinion.I doubt you'll get anywhere Ted,as the response to the 80mph debate proves,but maybe,just maybe this is the start of some meaningful dialogue for a change.I live in disillusioned hope.
I continue to argue in hope. What alternative is there?
Manek
PH Editor
Twincam16 said:
Why don't they - and without a view to a fine so no scameras - find out how fast people safely travel down motorways and adjust the limit accordingly?
I can only agree with this - I have always cruised at around 80 on motorways in clear weather, even in the presence of police - they obviously don't view this as dangerous. I don't feel the need to drive any faster, but I'd rather my patently safe speed be legal.
Clearly all they want to do is blindly enforce laws that do nothing to any benefit for society in the huge majority of cases.
I'd much prefer a usefull deployment of police forces to enforce laws against such things as illegal drugs distribution and use, drink driving, drug driving, MOT and insurance avoidance etc.
Simply they are saying we are going to crack down on something that isn't a problem, and ignore the real problem!
Very clear from where I'm sitting anyway :angry:
Oh well, lets do more "drive safe" days at 50mph on the motorways. Last thing we want to do is ruin the reputation of our safe motorways by going too fast
Dave
I'd much prefer a usefull deployment of police forces to enforce laws against such things as illegal drugs distribution and use, drink driving, drug driving, MOT and insurance avoidance etc.
Simply they are saying we are going to crack down on something that isn't a problem, and ignore the real problem!
Very clear from where I'm sitting anyway :angry:
Oh well, lets do more "drive safe" days at 50mph on the motorways. Last thing we want to do is ruin the reputation of our safe motorways by going too fast
Dave
pwig said:
While I would like to see an increase of the limit, I have to admit to agreeing with the government, albeit for different reasons.
The main issue I see is the general poor quality of driving. In fact, I think it is so bad that it gives a good argument for reducing the limit! But realistically, I think the issue of general poor drving needs to be addressed first (a whole other bag of worms) - then up the limits.
I also think it is a shame that this 'debate' often revolves around poor arguments. We all know the government do this with their biased and mis-used statistics. But in this case, the argument put by Pistonheads is weak - "Surveys show that most now believe that road safety would not be compromised by lifting ...". Surveys like this are pointless, misrepresenting and are simply making use of people's ignorance of the details of ths issue. 'Most people' do not understand the issues and are able to view it in an objective manner. If surveyed, 'most people' would probably think that there should be no taxes, but this would not work in the real world!
But the poor driving in this country wont get better until we start to give more responsibility back to the motorist.
Have you not seen the pattern of as the nanny state increases, the worse driving standards have become???
I totally agree
the motorist in toadys soceity is not allowed to make an common sense decisions on the road with the multitude of signs, signals and markings, more time is spent scanning signs than proper observation on the road conditions
There's another aspect to the debate on raising speed-limits that doesn't often appear to be considered...
The fact is that you can (safely) fit more vehicles into a given length of road if the speed-limit is lower. The reason for the variable limits on the M25.
On a wide-open stretch of the M4, for example, (hmmm, about where the speed-scameras have been located!!) an increased limit would have a negligible effect - except to cut revenue for the local plod!!
But, where traffic throughput is marginal, increasing the speed-limit would probably have a detremental effect on traffic-flow...
Of course, if we'd had some proper investment in the road network for the past 25 years then none of this would be a consideration..!!
The fact is that you can (safely) fit more vehicles into a given length of road if the speed-limit is lower. The reason for the variable limits on the M25.
On a wide-open stretch of the M4, for example, (hmmm, about where the speed-scameras have been located!!) an increased limit would have a negligible effect - except to cut revenue for the local plod!!
But, where traffic throughput is marginal, increasing the speed-limit would probably have a detremental effect on traffic-flow...
Of course, if we'd had some proper investment in the road network for the past 25 years then none of this would be a consideration..!!
steff said:
WTF does 'NIXES' mean?!
dictionary.com said:
nix
1) n. Mythology A water sprite of German mythology, usually in human form or half-human and half-fish.
2) n. Nothing.
3) adv. Not so; no.
4) tr.v. nixed, nix·ing, nix·es To forbid, refuse, or veto: Congress nixed the tax hike.
5) n.a quantity of no importance; "it looked like nothing I had ever seen before"; "reduced to nil all the work we had done"; "we racked up a pathetic goose egg"; "it was all for naught"; "I didn't hear zilch about it" [syn: nothing, nil, nada, null, aught, cipher, cypher, goose egg, naught, zero, zilch, zip]
I think Manek is implying that the government are slippery sub-humans who aren't about to kill their pathetic golden goose.
Davislove said:
But the poor driving in this country wont get better until we start to give more responsibility back to the motorist.
Have you not seen the pattern of as the nanny state increases, the worse driving standards have become???
I totally agree
the motorist in toadys soceity is not allowed to make an common sense decisions on the road with the multitude of signs, signals and markings, more time is spent scanning signs than proper observation on the road conditions
I'm amazed people think that to make people drive to a higher standard the limits need to be increased! Do you hoestly belive that the people sitting in the middle lane, or people not signalling are doing so because they think the speed limit is too slow or coz they feel there are too many rules?
I agree that in places there are too many signs and in others junction and road design/layout is poor. But I suggesting that people should fundamentally know and carry out the basic elements of driving - in particular signalling, awareness of others and considering the effect of their actions on others.
Most people are just lazy and drive on autopilot. My biggest worry when I drive 'fast' on a clear motorway is not whether I can look after myself, but whether the guy sitting in the middle lane up ahead for no reason is paying attention enough not to pull out for no reason when I get closer and am unable to avoid him/her. And this is speed dependant - if I am driving faster, the other driver has to be more aware of those around them becasue the relative locations I could be in where I could not avoid an accident are larger than if I were going slower.
DanH said:Indeed - the French have a 130km/h speed limit in the dry, and 110km/h speed in the wet.
What we need is variable speed limits that also go up when conditions allow. Most of Europe goes up to 80mph in good conditions now, and no it doesn't require a sodding computer to tell us that, its just a sign. Most people are capable of detecting if its raining or not...
How do you tell the difference between dry and wet? The law states that if you need to use your windscreen wipers then it's wet.
Holy cow - some common sense! Won't catch over here though - freedom of though is on it's way out!
why don't you all wake up!!!
Speedlimits have nothing to do with road safety, it's a means of generating money. The higher the speed limit the lesses likely it is that people will/can be fined.
Here in Belgium, it is exactly the same thing. To make things worse they have increase the fines. Basic fine is 150 euro and then they'll add for each km/h excedding the limit.
These politicians are a bunch of a**holes who are to much scared to tell us the truth. They need money and tehy'll use every excuse to get money.
Germany proves that fast driving is not equel to unsafe driving!!There are no more deadly accidents on the autobahns than on the Belgian or British highways.
(By the way : same thing with the anti-tabaco laws; sigarette-taxes generate so much money that they don't want people to stop smoking, the anti-tabaco laws is just a "smoke-screen" to keep the leftist and the green voters happy.)
I would move to Germany on the spot, if only there wouldn't be that many Germans around.
Speedlimits have nothing to do with road safety, it's a means of generating money. The higher the speed limit the lesses likely it is that people will/can be fined.
Here in Belgium, it is exactly the same thing. To make things worse they have increase the fines. Basic fine is 150 euro and then they'll add for each km/h excedding the limit.
These politicians are a bunch of a**holes who are to much scared to tell us the truth. They need money and tehy'll use every excuse to get money.
Germany proves that fast driving is not equel to unsafe driving!!There are no more deadly accidents on the autobahns than on the Belgian or British highways.
(By the way : same thing with the anti-tabaco laws; sigarette-taxes generate so much money that they don't want people to stop smoking, the anti-tabaco laws is just a "smoke-screen" to keep the leftist and the green voters happy.)
I would move to Germany on the spot, if only there wouldn't be that many Germans around.
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