Parking fine assistance (yay!)

[bad company]

PorkInsider said:

xjay1337 said:

Next course of action!?

Pay up and move on.

I wouldn’t do that. If they haven’t followed up I’d wait and see what they do next. It’d be good to keep a screenshot of their email in the junk folder.

[S11Steve]

Each of the first 3 bullet points in their rejection are easily rebuttable, but Euro Car Parks never accept a first appeal regardless of how strong the arguments are. Many people will simply pay up thinking that the Parking Company must be corrct.
They even admit in a somewhat vague way that they are not compliant with POFA on keeper liability. It is not the "responsibility" of the keeper to inform, they are merely invited to provide a name. It is however ECPs responsibility to ensure they comply with POFA if they wish to hold the keeper liable.
Being on Site and time parked are two different matters, well documented in many previous defended claims.
Signage being clear is subjective - is it clear to the driver how to pay any extra charge if they have been delayed returning to the vehicle, or is it even possible to pay the extra 45 minutes? "Frustration of Contract" trips up many Pay & Display tickets.


The next step is that this goes to Debt Recovery Plus, then Zenith Collections (one and the same company but different letter heads), then to SCS Law of a final threat.
Euro Car Parks very very rarely take formal legal action, unless it is one vehicle with multiple outstanding issues.

Personally, I'd sit this one out, but when it gets to SCS Law, you could request another POPLA code to show some willing towards the Pre-Action Conduct .and Protocols - or how both parties should act in the lead up to any potential court claim.

I've done this a few times, and on some occasions they have decided to drop the matter "for goodwill", others they have simply not replied, and one did issue a POPLA code which resulted in the charge being cancelled about 2 years after the ticket was issued.


Private Parking Tickets are one of the few instances in life when two wrongs can make a right.

[VAGLover]

xjay1337 said:

KungFuPanda said:

Yeah on Pepipoo.

Lol. A link would be appreciated.

https://lmgtfy.com/?q=Pepipoo

[bad company]

S11Steve said:

Each of the first 3 bullet points in their rejection are easily rebuttable, but Euro Car Parks never accept a first appeal regardless of how strong the arguments are. Many people will simply pay up thinking that the Parking Company must be corrct.
They even admit in a somewhat vague way that they are not compliant with POFA on keeper liability. It is not the "responsibility" of the keeper to inform, they are merely invited to provide a name. It is however ECPs responsibility to ensure they comply with POFA if they wish to hold the keeper liable.
Being on Site and time parked are two different matters, well documented in many previous defended claims.
Signage being clear is subjective - is it clear to the driver how to pay any extra charge if they have been delayed returning to the vehicle, or is it even possible to pay the extra 45 minutes? "Frustration of Contract" trips up many Pay & Display tickets.


The next step is that this goes to Debt Recovery Plus, then Zenith Collections (one and the same company but different letter heads), then to SCS Law of a final threat.
Euro Car Parks very very rarely take formal legal action, unless it is one vehicle with multiple outstanding issues.

Personally, I'd sit this one out, but when it gets to SCS Law, you could request another POPLA code to show some willing towards the Pre-Action Conduct .and Protocols - or how both parties should act in the lead up to any potential court claim.

I've done this a few times, and on some occasions they have decided to drop the matter "for goodwill", others they have simply not replied, and one did issue a POPLA code which resulted in the charge being cancelled about 2 years after the ticket was issued.


Private Parking Tickets are one of the few instances in life when two wrongs can make a right.

This is good advice op, Steve knows what he's talking about. You don’t need to worry about the debt collectors, there’s nothing much they can do without a Court Order.

[xjay1337]

S11Steve said:

Each of the first 3 bullet points in their rejection are easily rebuttable, but Euro Car Parks never accept a first appeal regardless of how strong the arguments are. Many people will simply pay up thinking that the Parking Company must be corrct.
They even admit in a somewhat vague way that they are not compliant with POFA on keeper liability. It is not the "responsibility" of the keeper to inform, they are merely invited to provide a name. It is however ECPs responsibility to ensure they comply with POFA if they wish to hold the keeper liable.
Being on Site and time parked are two different matters, well documented in many previous defended claims.
Signage being clear is subjective - is it clear to the driver how to pay any extra charge if they have been delayed returning to the vehicle, or is it even possible to pay the extra 45 minutes? "Frustration of Contract" trips up many Pay & Display tickets.


The next step is that this goes to Debt Recovery Plus, then Zenith Collections (one and the same company but different letter heads), then to SCS Law of a final threat.
Euro Car Parks very very rarely take formal legal action, unless it is one vehicle with multiple outstanding issues.

Personally, I'd sit this one out, but when it gets to SCS Law, you could request another POPLA code to show some willing towards the Pre-Action Conduct .and Protocols - or how both parties should act in the lead up to any potential court claim.

I've done this a few times, and on some occasions they have decided to drop the matter "for goodwill", others they have simply not replied, and one did issue a POPLA code which resulted in the charge being cancelled about 2 years after the ticket was issued.


Private Parking Tickets are one of the few instances in life when two wrongs can make a right.

Steve thank you for your input, much appreciated.

I'll wait to see if anything further is said.

[xjay1337]

Hi, Ok I would not ignore letter before claim.

This arrived over the weekend -




Any further action or advice.
I don't want to go to court over the fine but a bit annoyed I never had a chance to file under popla.

Edited by xjay1337 on Sunday 8th September 14:51

Edited by xjay1337 on Sunday 8th September 14:55

Edited by xjay1337 on Sunday 8th September 14:55

[bad company]

xjay1337 said:

Hi, Ok I would not ignore letter before claim.

This arrived over the weekend -



https://i.imgur.com/ba7TnS0_d.jpg?maxwidth=...fidelity=medium

Any further action or advice.
I don't want to go to court over the fine but a bit annoyed I never had a chance to file under popla.

Can’t read it.

[xjay1337]

Sorry. I edited the link, should be readable now if you click it.

Steve mentioned about asking for a new popla code when it goes to law firms, can I not request this earlier as I'd rather it be sorted sooner than later and don't want to have to wait for many months to pass before I can draw a line under this.

I am annoyed that I missed the e-mail in the spam but I take responsibility for that,


I understand that according to their appeals procedure that if the appeal is unsuccessful that you will be advised "in writing" - To me this means a letter to the registered keeper. Not an E-mail ?

Can I appeal this latest letter dated 4th August , received on 7th August, and request a new POPLA code on the basis that there was nothing received in writing and the E-mail was consigned to the spam folder?

Please note the only other letter received was the initial penalty charge notice, RK did not receive anything by post regarding the appeal rejection.

Edited by xjay1337 on Sunday 8th September 15:01

[silverfoxcc]

xj

Have you updated on pepipoo, for their thoughts?

[xjay1337]

Yup. I update both threads at same time

[MikeGoodwin]

why is it too late to appeal at POPLA? The whole idea is to submit a soft appeal to the parking company which of course they deny, but provide you with a POPLA code which they say they have done. Surely you can now appeal to POPLA with a code thats still active? Build your POPLA appeal based on help from PEPIPOO or better yet MSE parking fine forums. Should have a few points (which are also templated btw...) in your appeal and then its up to euro to rebut them. POPLA seem to be good still if you read the MSE parking fine sticky thread where people post up their results, will give you an idea of what to include in your template from the results of successful appeals.

MSE parking fine forums are a better place to look than PEPIPOO btw... maybe start a new thread there just say you're dealing with euro car parks and have received a POPLA code

So much st information in this thread.

e/ just seen your gmail buried it, that was really really daft... If your POPLA code is invalid next steps are waiting until you receive a court date I think (i forget the technical term for this), if you ignore and don't go to court thats when you end up with a CCJ. Euro do pursue these aggressively I think. Next steps for you are to get on pepipoo or mse and seek court advice.

Id be tempted to pay the £85 at this stage if I'm honest. Court is do-able with assistance but a proper nuisance

Edited by MikeGoodwin on Monday 9th September 11:20

[MikeGoodwin]

S11Steve said:

Euro Car Parks very very rarely take formal legal action

I always heard Euro were quite hot on the court thing.

[Ajax Treesdown]

Listen to and follow S11Steve advice! He deals with this stuff every working day.

[spikyone]

MikeGoodwin said:

e/ just seen your gmail buried it, that was really really daft... If your POPLA code is invalid next steps are waiting until you receive a court date I think (i forget the technical term for this), if you ignore and don't go to court thats when you end up with a CCJ. Euro do pursue these aggressively I think. Next steps for you are to get on pepipoo or mse and seek court advice.

Id be tempted to pay the £85 at this stage if I'm honest. Court is do-able with assistance but a proper nuisance

Edited by MikeGoodwin on Monday 9th September 11:20

I disagree with both pieces of advice here. And OP would only get a CCJ if he lost at court and then refused to pay, he wouldn't get one for missing the court date, losing by default, and then paying.

In OP's shoes I would write (snail-mail) to ECP, let them know that their original rejection went to the spam folder, and ask if they would kindly provide a new POPLA code (by snail-mail) in the interests of resolving the issue without wasting court time. Close with a statement agreeing to abide by the POPLA decision. There's no reason they can't issue a new one.

ECP can either send a new code, in which case OP can appeal to POPLA and kill off the charge very quickly. Or they can refuse, in which case nothing lost but a judge might not look too kindly on their refusal if it ever got that far.

Paying, given that most BPA-sanctioned tickets can be beaten with generic appeal points, would be a waste of £85.

Edited by spikyone on Monday 9th September 14:18

[S11Steve]

MikeGoodwin said:

S11Steve said:

Euro Car Parks very very rarely take formal legal action

I always heard Euro were quite hot on the court thing.

Euro Car Parks are one of the most prolific issuers of tickets, but not many court claims are issued at - I think their first was in late 2017, and only 3 or 4 since then on the last figures that I saw.

Euro Parking Services are a much smaller outfit, part of the IPC, and a bit more trigger-happy to issue claims, but only seem to use that as part of their threats - they have never followed through claim with me once they receive a defence statement.

There is also Euro Parking Collection who buy data from European authorities for unpaid fines on UK registered vehicles, then pester the st out of the keeper with letters as they can't take any enforcement action.



Data is here if anyone is that interested in the volumes of tickets being issued - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/who-dvl...

You have two options - sit it out, and then send a reply back to any debt collection letters from DRP/Zenith - stating the debt is denied and you have already appealed to ECP, or write back and be transparent that their response was not received in time due becuase of the spam filter, and request that they reissue a POPLA code, by post to resolve one way or the other.

Edited by S11Steve on Monday 9th September 13:23

[xjay1337]

Ok guys

Thanks, I think what I will do then is write to ECP (attach the latest letter letter) as signed for delivery.

I will explain that the response to my appeal went to the Spam filter and was not found in time, and ask out of good faith would they re-issue a POPLA code via post and I will agree to the outcome of the POPLA appeal.


I will do this at some point in the next week if you guys have any objections to that?


Edit: on pepipoo someone said :

Pepipoo said:

[
No, because theres nothing you can do now with ECP. We told you this.

There is never any fine
ECP dont do court.
Email counts as writing. ALso, say your interpretation si true 0 it isnt - it doesnt matter as theres noone you can complain to.

So no. Stop. Ignore (but file) anything that IS NOT a letter before fclaim or court claim, for 6 years.

Seems that there is nothing further that can be appealed/contacted them about..


I'd rather contact ECP and get a new POPLA code now if possible rather than waiting for debt collection letters to turn up etc.

Edited by xjay1337 on Monday 9th September 14:41

[bad company]

xjay1337 said:

Seems that there is nothing further that can be appealed/contacted them about..


I'd rather contact ECP and get a new POPLA code now if possible rather than waiting for debt collection letters to turn up etc.

Edited by xjay1337 on Monday 9th September 14:41

Debt collectors can’t do anything without a Court Order which you’d have the opportunity to defend. You’re worrying too much which is just what the parking firm wants.

[spikyone]

xjay1337 said:

Ok guys

Thanks, I think what I will do then is write to ECP (attach the latest letter letter) as signed for delivery.

I will explain that the response to my appeal went to the Spam filter and was not found in time, and ask out of good faith would they re-issue a POPLA code via post and I will agree to the outcome of the POPLA appeal.


I will do this at some point in the next week if you guys have any objections to that?


Edit: on pepipoo someone said :

Pepipoo said:

[
No, because theres nothing you can do now with ECP. We told you this.

There is never any fine
ECP dont do court.
Email counts as writing. ALso, say your interpretation si true 0 it isnt - it doesnt matter as theres noone you can complain to.

So no. Stop. Ignore (but file) anything that IS NOT a letter before fclaim or court claim, for 6 years.

Seems that there is nothing further that can be appealed/contacted them about..


I'd rather contact ECP and get a new POPLA code now if possible rather than waiting for debt collection letters to turn up etc.

Edited by xjay1337 on Monday 9th September 14:41

Crikey. I don't want to rush to judgement as I have friends who are dyslexic, but that post on Pepipoo is pretty garbled.

It's up to you what you want to do, of course. The debt collectors are powerless until anything has been to court, so you can safely not worry about those - they can't legally send round the heavies or anything like that. My only issue with the advice you've been given there is that if there's some change in the interpretation of the law, or in ECP's approach, they could end up pursuing you further down the line. Some companies did this after the Beavis case, trawling through old tickets. If you've moved house in the interim, that can have consequences...

For the cost of a letter to ECP, you've nothing to lose by requesting a new POPLA code. Don't bother sending your letter recorded (as some parking companies are known to refuse delivery), just keep a copy of the letter and if you're worried about evidence, you can get a free proof of posting at the Post Office counter.

[S11Steve]

bad company said:

xjay1337 said:

Seems that there is nothing further that can be appealed/contacted them about..


I'd rather contact ECP and get a new POPLA code now if possible rather than waiting for debt collection letters to turn up etc.

Edited by xjay1337 on Monday 9th September 14:41

Debt collectors can’t do anything without a Court Order which you’d have the opportunity to defend. You’re worrying too much which is just what the parking firm wants.

Correct - Debt collectors cant do anything, but I'd tend to agree that I'd rather make the problem go away sooner than later and request a 2nd POPLA code.

Also, if in the remotest, unlikeliest chance that this did get as far as a court hearing, you can demonstrate that you have tried to be reasonable in the process.

[xjay1337]

S11Steve said:

bad company said:

xjay1337 said:

Seems that there is nothing further that can be appealed/contacted them about..


I'd rather contact ECP and get a new POPLA code now if possible rather than waiting for debt collection letters to turn up etc.

Edited by xjay1337 on Monday 9th September 14:41

Debt collectors can’t do anything without a Court Order which you’d have the opportunity to defend. You’re worrying too much which is just what the parking firm wants.

Correct - Debt collectors cant do anything, but I'd tend to agree that I'd rather make the problem go away sooner than later and request a 2nd POPLA code.

Also, if in the remotest, unlikeliest chance that this did get as far as a court hearing, you can demonstrate that you have tried to be reasonable in the process.

Ok thanks.

I will write a letter to ECP then and ask for a new POPLA code. Will do that in the week

Thanks