Parking fine assistance (yay!)

[xjay1337]

Nope! I'm certainly not going to chase it!

[xjay1337]

Hi guys

Just an update on this.

I found they had replied to my appeal - it came through on the 11th of July however it was buried thanks to Google's anti spam.

The letter as below.




They seem to completely ignore the email regarding the requirement to invite ....

It's now long past the 28 days period to notify Popla.
Nothing has been sent to the registered keeper in the post.

Next course of action!?

Obviously my fault for missing it in the spam..

[xjay1337]

S11Steve said:

Each of the first 3 bullet points in their rejection are easily rebuttable, but Euro Car Parks never accept a first appeal regardless of how strong the arguments are. Many people will simply pay up thinking that the Parking Company must be corrct.
They even admit in a somewhat vague way that they are not compliant with POFA on keeper liability. It is not the "responsibility" of the keeper to inform, they are merely invited to provide a name. It is however ECPs responsibility to ensure they comply with POFA if they wish to hold the keeper liable.
Being on Site and time parked are two different matters, well documented in many previous defended claims.
Signage being clear is subjective - is it clear to the driver how to pay any extra charge if they have been delayed returning to the vehicle, or is it even possible to pay the extra 45 minutes? "Frustration of Contract" trips up many Pay & Display tickets.


The next step is that this goes to Debt Recovery Plus, then Zenith Collections (one and the same company but different letter heads), then to SCS Law of a final threat.
Euro Car Parks very very rarely take formal legal action, unless it is one vehicle with multiple outstanding issues.

Personally, I'd sit this one out, but when it gets to SCS Law, you could request another POPLA code to show some willing towards the Pre-Action Conduct .and Protocols - or how both parties should act in the lead up to any potential court claim.

I've done this a few times, and on some occasions they have decided to drop the matter "for goodwill", others they have simply not replied, and one did issue a POPLA code which resulted in the charge being cancelled about 2 years after the ticket was issued.


Private Parking Tickets are one of the few instances in life when two wrongs can make a right.

Steve thank you for your input, much appreciated.

I'll wait to see if anything further is said.

[xjay1337]

Hi, Ok I would not ignore letter before claim.

This arrived over the weekend -




Any further action or advice.
I don't want to go to court over the fine but a bit annoyed I never had a chance to file under popla.

Edited by xjay1337 on Sunday 8th September 14:51

Edited by xjay1337 on Sunday 8th September 14:55

Edited by xjay1337 on Sunday 8th September 14:55

[xjay1337]

Sorry. I edited the link, should be readable now if you click it.

Steve mentioned about asking for a new popla code when it goes to law firms, can I not request this earlier as I'd rather it be sorted sooner than later and don't want to have to wait for many months to pass before I can draw a line under this.

I am annoyed that I missed the e-mail in the spam but I take responsibility for that,


I understand that according to their appeals procedure that if the appeal is unsuccessful that you will be advised "in writing" - To me this means a letter to the registered keeper. Not an E-mail ?

Can I appeal this latest letter dated 4th August , received on 7th August, and request a new POPLA code on the basis that there was nothing received in writing and the E-mail was consigned to the spam folder?

Please note the only other letter received was the initial penalty charge notice, RK did not receive anything by post regarding the appeal rejection.

Edited by xjay1337 on Sunday 8th September 15:01

[xjay1337]

Yup. I update both threads at same time

[xjay1337]

Ok guys

Thanks, I think what I will do then is write to ECP (attach the latest letter letter) as signed for delivery.

I will explain that the response to my appeal went to the Spam filter and was not found in time, and ask out of good faith would they re-issue a POPLA code via post and I will agree to the outcome of the POPLA appeal.


I will do this at some point in the next week if you guys have any objections to that?


Edit: on pepipoo someone said :

Pepipoo said:

[
No, because theres nothing you can do now with ECP. We told you this.

There is never any fine
ECP dont do court.
Email counts as writing. ALso, say your interpretation si true 0 it isnt - it doesnt matter as theres noone you can complain to.

So no. Stop. Ignore (but file) anything that IS NOT a letter before fclaim or court claim, for 6 years.

Seems that there is nothing further that can be appealed/contacted them about..


I'd rather contact ECP and get a new POPLA code now if possible rather than waiting for debt collection letters to turn up etc.

Edited by xjay1337 on Monday 9th September 14:41

[xjay1337]

S11Steve said:

bad company said:

xjay1337 said:

Seems that there is nothing further that can be appealed/contacted them about..


I'd rather contact ECP and get a new POPLA code now if possible rather than waiting for debt collection letters to turn up etc.

Edited by xjay1337 on Monday 9th September 14:41

Debt collectors can’t do anything without a Court Order which you’d have the opportunity to defend. You’re worrying too much which is just what the parking firm wants.

Correct - Debt collectors cant do anything, but I'd tend to agree that I'd rather make the problem go away sooner than later and request a 2nd POPLA code.

Also, if in the remotest, unlikeliest chance that this did get as far as a court hearing, you can demonstrate that you have tried to be reasonable in the process.

Ok thanks.

I will write a letter to ECP then and ask for a new POPLA code. Will do that in the week

Thanks

[xjay1337]

Hello.

Just another update.

Had another letter.

Any advice?
Ignore?
Ask for another POPLA code?
Pay?


ETA: this is causing me a lot of grief from the Mrs (registered keeper). She is panicking about CCJ and court and even said she was going to phone them up and put it in my name! I told her not to do that.....................not sure if she will listen as she is a worrying one who can't just trust me on it.

I'm tempted to pay just to make my own home life easier..............

Edited by xjay1337 on Friday 11th October 11:45

[xjay1337]

So your recommendation is that I reply to DRP via post and ask them to refer to their ECP as the debt is still in query and to cease harassment?
Should I send a copy to ECP as well?

Should I mention about re-issuing of a POPLA code by ECP? Or is that long gone by this point?

What is the likely next set of letters, after DRP/Zenith? I think you mentioned SCS LAW in a previous post?

Obviously you cannot say with any certainty but I'm fortunate to have someone like you, who deals with this ste alot helping, would court action be likely? I can just picture the face of the RK if that letter was to come through... it's already causing a lot of issues.

The registered keeper is making life very difficult now.........hence why I'm tempted to just throw in the towel but at this point I could have saved myself £60 by paying earlier..

Would there be a way of communicating with ECP and just paying the £85? lol......

Edited by xjay1337 on Friday 11th October 12:16

[xjay1337]

spikyone said:

Did you ask ECP for another POPLA code last month? If not, do that.

Reassure your missus that nothing bad will happen and you won't be getting a CCJ, explain to her that it's only possible if you go to court, lose, and still refuse to pay. Worst case with court is that you lose and ECP will be awarded the fine and a small amount of costs, but it's not going to be more than a small amount of extra pain.

No, I didn't.

I can write to them. Should I mention about the spam features and apologise for this?

I have explained to her........ but she is falling victim to the threats and panicking about it..

[xjay1337]

S11Steve said:

xjay1337 said:

spikyone said:

Did you ask ECP for another POPLA code last month? If not, do that.

Reassure your missus that nothing bad will happen and you won't be getting a CCJ, explain to her that it's only possible if you go to court, lose, and still refuse to pay. Worst case with court is that you lose and ECP will be awarded the fine and a small amount of costs, but it's not going to be more than a small amount of extra pain.

No, I didn't.

I can write to them. Should I mention about the spam features and apologise for this?

I have explained to her........ but she is falling victim to the threats and panicking about it..

No harm in putting together a letter to DRP saying that the debt is denied, and you missed the POPLA opportunity due to the spam filter issue, and you are still; willing to engage if their clients are. From experienmce, I'd say that this is safe to igniore, but if you have a nervous RK, then it is best to get the cancellation in writing.

DRP and Zenith are the same company, different letterheads, and both equally toothless - the debt has not been properly assigned to them, so they can't take any action, only advice their clients of the next step.
SCS Law are the next step up - they will send similar letters to the debt collectors, but they can instigate legal action under the instruction of the PPC as their client - that said, Euro Car Parks rarely go to court, they just send it around the various debt collectors for pestering.

Ok fair enough.

I'll get that written up.

Thank you mate appreciate it.

Should I copy the letter to ECP also when i send it to DRP?

Should i send it recorded delivery ?

Edited by xjay1337 on Friday 11th October 12:58

[xjay1337]

I understand that but for a letter or two it's worth trying.

I drafted the following letter. I wanted it double checked by those who know more about it..... before I send......


Registration Number <Reg>
REF: Parking Charge Notice XXXXX
Location : M&B The Boldmere Sutton Coldfield
Date of Event : 31/05/2019
Date of Issue of PCN: 10/06/2019
Original POPLA Verification Code: XXXXX

Dear Euro Car Parks
I am writing to you with regards to the above case.
The debt is denied for the following reason
- You have failed to comply with The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, Section 9 (2) (e) of the Act. You have failed to give the invitation prescribed therefore within.
- Anti-Spam functionality on the web mail service for which the appeal response was sent, the response was blocked
I am prepared to engage with your client, ECP, if they are open to discussion.
With this in mind I would respectfully request a re-issue of POPLA code to be sent via post (to address above) and to e-mail (email@address).
Yours sincerely
Registered Keeper <Reg>

[xjay1337]

Could someone confirm if it's ok to send that ?

[xjay1337]

Yeah it is very frustrating to deal with and like you say it's just a lot of threatening letters and such.

I'll send the letter anyway as I'm confident that it would get overturned at the POPLA level but yeah.

[xjay1337]

I sent letter as mentioned.

Received this from Ncp.

Nothing from DRP as of yet.

[xjay1337]

Sargeant Orange said:

Xjay - take it from someone who has been to the small claims court and won (albeit with Excel parking), that it is nothing to be concerned about if it does go that far. It's very informal and not daunting in the slightest.

What I would say though is that you need to start getting yourself clued up on the regulations and those which are integral to your situation. You can't rely on posters here to do the work for you. If you'd researched your case you wouldn't be asking how to reply to those letters.

Go to pepipoo, look for similar cases to yours and read the threads back to front and understand exactly why ECP have failed to follow the regulations. Once you've done that you'll know what letter is turning up before you even get it.

If it does go in front of a judge you need to get in front of this instead of playing catch up

thanks for the advice, that's good to hear.

I'm not overly worried if it went to that state, but I hope it wouldn't. it's not in their interest nor mine.

I think i have the main point which is the failure to invite keeper to name driver, so failed on POFA2012. that's without getting information from signage etc. worst case i would ask online if anyone lives near to birmingham who can get signage details for me.

i do appreciate the advice from some posters helping me. i freely admit i am too retarded to trawl through the ins and outs.

if it DID go to court if driver was not the keeper , would the keeper have to go, or could the driver attend?

regarding the letter, i sent two , one to ECP and one to DRP , haven't heard back from DRP as of yet , only ECP.

[xjay1337]

Just a quick update

NCP replied back with a letter basically saying that there is nothing they can do, and to deal with the collection agency.

Subsequently, I received another exact copy of the same letter from DRP.
I will just send another copy of exactly the same letter back to DRP, unless someone has better advice.

[xjay1337]

Hi silverfox

i will,

My previous letter was as below:

"I am writing to you with regards to the above case.
The debt is denied for the following reason
- You have failed to comply with The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, Section 9 (2) (e) of the Act. You have failed to give the invitation prescribed therefore within.
- Anti-Spam functionality on the web mail service for which the appeal response was sent, the response was blocked
I am prepared to engage with your client, ECP, if they are open to discussion.
With this in mind I would respectfully request a re-issue of POPLA code to be sent via post (to address above) and to e-mail (email@address).
Yours sincerely
Registered Keeper <Reg>"

[xjay1337]

PorkInsider said:

I really, really don't know how you can be arsed with this.

You admitted it was your mistake, they want £50.

I'd have just paid them and got on with my life.

I'm not paying £50 when I overstayed by half an hour, at £1.00 or £1.50 per hour.