The End of a Stolen Golf R story

[Sheepshanks]

Retroman said:

She at the time had a brand new Astra with all the bells and whistles.

Not being funny or anything, but it's a bit weird that someone would go to that trouble to nick an Astra.

Or am I missing something and it was personal, not related to the specific car?

[croyde]

DuncB7 said:

Verging on dominating the stairs but let's not go there.

Sadly, the law doesn't look favourably upon those who defend themselves.

That aside, why would you risk your safety when simply handing over the keys would see the thieves away in the shortest possible time.

I agree but insurance companies are voting with their feet here in London thanks to crime.

I'm 57 and have lived and ridden bikes in London since I was 16 but every year my bike insurance sky rockets and now it seems only one company will still provide cover but at a price.

This is due to over a decade of bike crime that the police as good as ignore if you happen to be a victim.

[rallycross]

janesmith1950 said:

My car was stolen end of last year. Broke into the kitchen at 7pm about 5 mins after we'd finished feeding the kids in there.

Car not recovered.

If they catch the persons who did it, what do I want? I don't see the point in putting them in prison. They're just footsoldiers for a larger criminal enterprise. Giving them a few weeks or months in prison won't change their lives when they come out. They won't be better people or less likely to reoffend.

I'd like them to be listened to and their lives assessed to understand why it was worth stealing a car rather than something slightly less illegal.

Then I'd like the state to spend the equivalent jail money training that person on the job as in either private or public organisations, giving them employable skills.

There are push and pull factors at work in crime. The strength of need to take the risk in the first place. The level of the risk. The height of the punishment if the risk is realised.

With comparatively very few police officers able to police car theft, the risks of getting caught are very low and the punishment is, in the grand scheme of things, irrelevant.

We should out more resources into policing these types of crime, and then try to recycle low-level crims by educating them when they're caught. That way, instead of just pausing the cycle, you're actively trying to divert it.

It won't bring a car back, but it will make society better.

Well that’s all very nice but the best answer will actually be to cut both their hands off and never give them of any of their close family any more benefits for the rest of their living years:

The correct answer lies somewhere between both of these stupid extreme views.

[Mojooo]

janesmith1950 said:

My car was stolen end of last year. Broke into the kitchen at 7pm about 5 mins after we'd finished feeding the kids in there.

Car not recovered.

If they catch the persons who did it, what do I want? I don't see the point in putting them in prison. They're just footsoldiers for a larger criminal enterprise. Giving them a few weeks or months in prison won't change their lives when they come out. They won't be better people or less likely to reoffend.

I'd like them to be listened to and their lives assessed to understand why it was worth stealing a car rather than something slightly less illegal.

Then I'd like the state to spend the equivalent jail money training that person on the job as in either private or public organisations, giving them employable skills.

There are push and pull factors at work in crime. The strength of need to take the risk in the first place. The level of the risk. The height of the punishment if the risk is realised.

With comparatively very few police officers able to police car theft, the risks of getting caught are very low and the punishment is, in the grand scheme of things, irrelevant.

We should out more resources into policing these types of crime, and then try to recycle low-level crims by educating them when they're caught. That way, instead of just pausing the cycle, you're actively trying to divert it.

It won't bring a car back, but it will make society better.

I think you are being naive. I've read various stories from reformed drug dealers (and met some in person) and most of them say eventually they got fed up from prison which is why they reformed.


Don't get me wrong, I am all for reform and education etc but to think a lot of these scrotes will just change like that is naive IMO.

[PorkInsider]

According to the most recent government data I can find, it costs around £24k per year to keep a prisoner locked up.

How much does each criminal scrote on the outside cost the taxpayer?

I'd hazard a guess it's not much less than that with housing benefit and whatever else they're claiming, and that's before considering the financial impact of their offending.

So for £24k per year I'd rather they were locked up for very long stretches than allowed the freedom to continue to offend.

I don't much care for the 'spend money on punishments which help them reform' theory given that stopping them offending is the aim, and keeping them under lock and key is always going to be more effective at that.

[anonymous-user]

Yes, we could keep doing the same thing over and over and over and over again. And so will the low level criminals. The definition of insanity...

Being soft is putting your fingers in your ears and not being willing to consider doing things differently.

Low level criminals are usually just that because they have addiction, literacy and upbringing issues. They consider themselves unemployable and outside of mainstream society. They often don't feel this way through a choice to abandon law abiding society, but because they feel law abiding society has abandoned them.

On the other hand, law abiding society feels like the criminals are attacking them. They feel that the criminals have abandoned a law abiding life through choice.

It's two sides who are unable or unwilling to understand one another, and the result is an ever continuing cycle of waste.

The petty criminals need support to come away from needing or feeling like they need to turn to crime to live their everyday lives. These people are very different from the proper criminals who purposely choose to create illegal enterprise. It's not the drug addict who gets £200 for stealing an M3 who needs a long prison sentence, it's the ones earning £millions from the car breaking/exporting operations they run, employing these people.

It absolutely isn't about being soft on crime- it's about spending the time and money to deal with the causes of crime rather than repeatedly wasting money on patching the symptoms.

[Johnnytheboy]

I feel that society should be fairly lenient on first offenders, and at that stage offer more rehabilitation than punishment.

But if they get caught again for doing the same almost anything there should be a custodial sentence.

If they get caught again it should be doubled.

If they get caught again it should be doubled again.

Eventually they will either get the message or die in jail.

I couldn't give two sts if they have made bad choices. I am widely informed that a great deal of property crime is carried iout by a very small slice of the population. If they are in jail they won't be stealing people's stuff.

If it costs the rest of us £24k a year to do so it's a price worth paying for a more pleasant, scum-free society.

[Mojooo]

The cost of investigating and taking to court probably costs well over 24k a time when you actually add it all up.

[Jezza30]

My quick car theft story if anyone is interested.

I was in a house in Notting Hill (gawping outside waiting for applicants to turn up - yup estate agent!!!) Its a quiet street and I saw an AMG estate pull up and two dodgy looking blokes get out...

Looking dodgy I took a load of photos of them brazenly change the number plates over and speed off - I had clear photos of everything. In the coming weeks I must have stopped half a dozen policemen for advice and offering them the photos... 'its long gone','too hard to trace' (surely ANPR everywhere in London) until I gave up - they weren't remotely interested...

[Sa Calobra]

janesmith1950 said:

My car was stolen end of last year. Broke into the kitchen at 7pm about 5 mins after we'd finished feeding the kids in there.

Car not recovered.

If they catch the persons who did it, what do I want? I don't see the point in putting them in prison. They're just footsoldiers for a larger criminal enterprise. Giving them a few weeks or months in prison won't change their lives when they come out. They won't be better people or less likely to reoffend.

I'd like them to be listened to and their lives assessed to understand why it was worth stealing a car rather than something slightly less illegal.

Then I'd like the state to spend the equivalent jail money training that person on the job as in either private or public organisations, giving them employable skills.

There are push and pull factors at work in crime. The strength of need to take the risk in the first place. The level of the risk. The height of the punishment if the risk is realised.

With comparatively very few police officers able to police car theft, the risks of getting caught are very low and the punishment is, in the grand scheme of things, irrelevant.

We should out more resources into policing these types of crime, and then try to recycle low-level crims by educating them when they're caught. That way, instead of just pausing the cycle, you're actively trying to divert it.

It won't bring a car back, but it will make society better.

You can listen to them, most are as thick as mince. Many never stood stood any chance as their mother may have drank or taken drugs whilst pregnant with them.

Many have no interest in society; they had no role models in their lives so they started smoking etc. They'll only stop when their bodies start to slow them down.

Many have ADHD etc. Many claim to have mental health issues.

When I was a kid thirty years ago I saw the same. Nothing will change as governments are scared to look at the root cause, fecklessness and the benefits system.

I think when you've grown up within them you have a different perspective to those from a middle England perspective.

[NikBartlett]

Bait cars that are SORNED, parked on driveways with faults that would cause a nasty fire after a few miles might make the crims think twice

[irocfan]

janesmith1950 said:

It's not the drug addict who gets £200 for stealing an M3 who needs a long prison sentence, it's the ones earning £millions from the car breaking/exporting operations they run, employing these people.

I'd say that those who buy a whole RS4 interior or Bentley wheels for (metaphorically speaking) £2.50 need their collar felt to...o

[Sa Calobra]

irocfan said:

janesmith1950 said:

It's not the drug addict who gets £200 for stealing an M3 who needs a long prison sentence, it's the ones earning £millions from the car breaking/exporting operations they run, employing these people.

I'd say that those who buy a whole RS4 interior or Bentley wheels for (metaphorically speaking) £2.50 need their collar felt to...o

It's not just £200 as one off crime though. They'll be doing that multipletimes a week. Multiple victims, multiple people employed to deal with the aftermath of each incident, capture, detention, processing, transporting, court staff, prison,probation staff, social workers for their children, mass meetings to discuss care plans for their families, drug outreach workers etc etc

[xjay1337]

irocfan said:

janesmith1950 said:

It's not the drug addict who gets £200 for stealing an M3 who needs a long prison sentence, it's the ones earning £millions from the car breaking/exporting operations they run, employing these people.

I'd say that those who buy a whole RS4 interior or Bentley wheels for (metaphorically speaking) £2.50 need their collar felt to...o

I've bought RS4 seats before I paid £1800
The guy bought an RS4 and took the seats out of it and fitted the "normal" seats as it makes him more money

No doubt some are dodgy but once they're in the market it's impossible to trace.
Also, so many people who have Bentleys buy trashy wheels and sell their originals so.......

[wc98]

richs2891 said:

OK so reading most of the thread, jail doe not seem to deter or ultimately stop offending,
Should we say follow the countries that chop the offenders right hand off ? And no disability for them in regards to the arm.

Would the social stigma of a missing right hand reduce crimes ?

i think the first time there is a sharia p.arty on the ballot paper there might be a surprise how many vote for it . said partly in jest but i don't think ordinary folk are happy at all at the amount of crime that impacts them daily. mostly what would be termed low level stuff. it might be low level but it can have a big impact on the individuals it affects.

[wc98]

Sa Calobra said:

You can listen to them, most are as thick as mince. Many never stood stood any chance as their mother may have drank or taken drugs whilst pregnant with them.

Many have no interest in society; they had no role models in their lives so they started smoking etc. They'll only stop when their bodies start to slow them down.

Many have ADHD etc. Many claim to have mental health issues.

When I was a kid thirty years ago I saw the same. Nothing will change as governments are scared to look at the root cause, fecklessness and the benefits system.

I think when you've grown up within them you have a different perspective to those from a middle England perspective.

spot on, most of those i knew were dead before 50. one still alive near me is in his mid 30's, was utter scum while young and fit,took every drug under the sun and drank like a fish. now had 4 strokes and is a shambling wreck, all self inflicted .in and out of hospital and doctors on a regular basis costing the taxpayer a fortune and taking up medical attention that quite frankly could be better spent elsewhere.

i think the increase in kids with mental health issues could be down to parents drug and alcohol abuse. a relative that was a teacher in a primary school nearby had 20 odd kids out of a class in the low 30's that had some form of special needs due to various issues like adhd. one other benefit of keeping the scum in jail is it prevents them breeding while inside.

[CoolHands]

We need a modern equivalent of when folk used to be press-ganged into the navy. Round em up and shove them into a menial job.

[MB140]

CoolHands said:

We need a modern equivalent of when folk used to be press-ganged into the navy. Round em up and shove them into a menial job.

Now this I agree with.

In the Airforce if your between postings or your section had no real work on your put on holding flight. Your put to work around the station or put on the Station Warrant Officers working party (it doesn’t happen so much these days as there are so few of us but when I joined up it was quite common).

Basically if your claiming benefits and your cable of doing a task then there should be a government working party in your local area. Pick up litter, scrub graffiti, help carry old ladies shopping home, visit isolated old people to give them company, any number of tasks that can basically help society. It shouldn’t be seen as a derogatory calling. Need time off for an interview no problem. But basically sitting on your arse smoking, drinking alcohol and watching Sky day in day out should be a thing of the past.

Don’t want to participate, fine here is the bare minimum you need to survive, and I do mean the absolute bare minimum.

[dave_s13]

Pica-Pica said:

Really? Locking him up will cost a helluva lot more to tax-payers. 12 months suspended sentence is no holiday, nor 150 hours unpaid community service, which will probably have to be completed by a certain date.

Sorry if this has already been covered but if you get a sentence like this what does your life look like for that 12months and 150hrs.

I can grasp jail time, as that's what it says on the tin, when you hear this suspended sentence, community service lark it just sounds like they effectively got away with it.

[Oakey]

Let's try something completely different, how about instead of locking the offender up, we start locking up their relatives.

So Joe dhead nicks a car, his mum spends 12 months in the shovel.

Joe carries on nicking cars? That's dad banged up too!

Still nicking cars? fk it, there's his little brother and sister locked up for good measure.

Still not got the message? That's grandma and granddad doing a stretch.

Then we can move on to the extended family.

If that doesn't guilt him into stopping committing crimes then there's always the hope his relatives will kick the st out of him once they're released!

Too much?