Money Claim Online or something else?
Discussion
Hi PH crew. I'm hoping for some guidance on if I have a genuine case for claiming money back. Grab a brew and prepare for story time.
Long story short, I got over excited buying my first premium vehicle from a local dealer and had nothing but trouble until I got shot if it just under a year later.
I openly admit (and accept the associated abuse) that I didn't do my homework. However, the vehicle came to me with a clean MOT, a "3 month Engine & Gearbox warranty" and an assurance that the vehicle was OK. 2006 Range Rover Sport, 130000 miles. Problems started 24 hours in when the steering rack seals burst. Dealer duly replaced, no questions asked. Great.
Problems persisted. Gearbox/torque converter issues apparent within a few days. Dealer became very quickly non-responsive until I had sent several emails and made 5-6 phone calls when they answered. I jumped through hoops for the dealer and spend approximately £3000 on getting the vehicle road legal. The problems were: prop shaft center bearing failed, gearbox problems, power steering problems, both wishbones failed, MOT was completed in house but did not notice prop shaft bearing or the SEVERAL cracks in ALL the wheels fitted to the vehicle. I had to get the tracking and balancing done which was annoying at over £100 but it is what it is.
My major gripe is the number of repairs and how the dealer fought every single one, refusing anything but the steering rack. With the gearbox, they wanted a diagnosis so I took it to my local Land Rover specialist who showed me the prop shaft bearing was at fault, there was some oil leaks I didn't know about and there was an investigation required on the gearbox/torque converter. I took them the report and they (I still can't believe this) told me the report wasn't relevant because it was dated "10/5/18" and said the report was done in May 2018. Perfectly understandable normally but I didn't buy the car until June! The report was completed on October 5th and was backed up by Whatsapp photos the garage took for me. they genuinely accused me of having a report done (that found a fault) on a vehicle I didn't own with a problem it didn't have. Reluctantly, they took the car in, popped it up on the ramp (I have dash cam footage) then told me problem wasn't the gearbox, it was the prop shaft bearing. So they told me to get the bearing fixed at my own expense and they might look at the gearbox. Another few hundred quid thrown at the bearing and took it back to the garage to be told "Oh, we were going to look at the bearing, not the gearbox. You've done it now so we won't do anything". So I took the vehicle to them and left it with them for about 2 months. I had to buy another car and use that in the mean time (Mk3 Mondeo, loved shed life). Eventually they told me to move my car so I reluctantly agreed. they then drove my car over their rubble car park, across a road and park in residential parking without inflating a flat tyre. Mercifully I didn't crack a wheel.
They had the sheer cheek to say that the garages I was taking the vehicle to (Some chains, some specialists, 1 independent with 30 years experience) of "not knowing how to jack the vehicle up" which caused the prop bearing failure. Because garages obviously jack up cars by the prop shaft when they have ramps!
Eventually I went in to discuss it with them and asked for written proof that they wouldn't replace my gearbox. They refused and said they'd only tell me verbally. I went to record him saying it but the moron there tried to take my phone off me. He then actually squared up to me when I said I'd take it to court.
I feel the garage have taken me for a ride on this one, knowing the vehicle is riddled with faults and refusing to sort any of them. They've had copies of any and all repairs I've had on the vehicle so know exactly what I have spent and on what. Some things I can make peace with, tracking, balancing, cat replacement, bulbs etc and even a drive shaft failing but to have a vehicle that should've failed an MOT before I bought it is a bit of a p**s take. I had to replace both wishbones, a set of wheels because the cracks weren't repairable and it threw a tyre at 70mph, prop shaft bearing and gearbox oil & filter (ended up selling before replacing the gearbox).
If I was going to pursue a money claim online, what would be the best steps to take? I'm expecting a lot of "IANAL" comments but I'll read them all if they're constructive.
Long story short, I got over excited buying my first premium vehicle from a local dealer and had nothing but trouble until I got shot if it just under a year later.
I openly admit (and accept the associated abuse) that I didn't do my homework. However, the vehicle came to me with a clean MOT, a "3 month Engine & Gearbox warranty" and an assurance that the vehicle was OK. 2006 Range Rover Sport, 130000 miles. Problems started 24 hours in when the steering rack seals burst. Dealer duly replaced, no questions asked. Great.
Problems persisted. Gearbox/torque converter issues apparent within a few days. Dealer became very quickly non-responsive until I had sent several emails and made 5-6 phone calls when they answered. I jumped through hoops for the dealer and spend approximately £3000 on getting the vehicle road legal. The problems were: prop shaft center bearing failed, gearbox problems, power steering problems, both wishbones failed, MOT was completed in house but did not notice prop shaft bearing or the SEVERAL cracks in ALL the wheels fitted to the vehicle. I had to get the tracking and balancing done which was annoying at over £100 but it is what it is.
My major gripe is the number of repairs and how the dealer fought every single one, refusing anything but the steering rack. With the gearbox, they wanted a diagnosis so I took it to my local Land Rover specialist who showed me the prop shaft bearing was at fault, there was some oil leaks I didn't know about and there was an investigation required on the gearbox/torque converter. I took them the report and they (I still can't believe this) told me the report wasn't relevant because it was dated "10/5/18" and said the report was done in May 2018. Perfectly understandable normally but I didn't buy the car until June! The report was completed on October 5th and was backed up by Whatsapp photos the garage took for me. they genuinely accused me of having a report done (that found a fault) on a vehicle I didn't own with a problem it didn't have. Reluctantly, they took the car in, popped it up on the ramp (I have dash cam footage) then told me problem wasn't the gearbox, it was the prop shaft bearing. So they told me to get the bearing fixed at my own expense and they might look at the gearbox. Another few hundred quid thrown at the bearing and took it back to the garage to be told "Oh, we were going to look at the bearing, not the gearbox. You've done it now so we won't do anything". So I took the vehicle to them and left it with them for about 2 months. I had to buy another car and use that in the mean time (Mk3 Mondeo, loved shed life). Eventually they told me to move my car so I reluctantly agreed. they then drove my car over their rubble car park, across a road and park in residential parking without inflating a flat tyre. Mercifully I didn't crack a wheel.
They had the sheer cheek to say that the garages I was taking the vehicle to (Some chains, some specialists, 1 independent with 30 years experience) of "not knowing how to jack the vehicle up" which caused the prop bearing failure. Because garages obviously jack up cars by the prop shaft when they have ramps!
Eventually I went in to discuss it with them and asked for written proof that they wouldn't replace my gearbox. They refused and said they'd only tell me verbally. I went to record him saying it but the moron there tried to take my phone off me. He then actually squared up to me when I said I'd take it to court.
I feel the garage have taken me for a ride on this one, knowing the vehicle is riddled with faults and refusing to sort any of them. They've had copies of any and all repairs I've had on the vehicle so know exactly what I have spent and on what. Some things I can make peace with, tracking, balancing, cat replacement, bulbs etc and even a drive shaft failing but to have a vehicle that should've failed an MOT before I bought it is a bit of a p**s take. I had to replace both wishbones, a set of wheels because the cracks weren't repairable and it threw a tyre at 70mph, prop shaft bearing and gearbox oil & filter (ended up selling before replacing the gearbox).
If I was going to pursue a money claim online, what would be the best steps to take? I'm expecting a lot of "IANAL" comments but I'll read them all if they're constructive.
So you no longer have the vehicle and have no written proof, apart from some emails you sent (no proof they were received), from the supplying garage that they were even going to look at it nevermind fix anything?
If this goes to court the Judge/adjudicator (whatever it is in small claims) will ask you what you did to rectify this and you're going to say "I asked the supplying dealer to sort everything but he refused". Judge then asks dealer is this true; "no, first we knew about any issues was when the MCOL turned up".
I hope you get a result because the dealer sounds like a right
, but I wouldn't be surprised if you don't.
If this goes to court the Judge/adjudicator (whatever it is in small claims) will ask you what you did to rectify this and you're going to say "I asked the supplying dealer to sort everything but he refused". Judge then asks dealer is this true; "no, first we knew about any issues was when the MCOL turned up".
I hope you get a result because the dealer sounds like a right
, but I wouldn't be surprised if you don't.MCOL.
"I bought x vehicle on y date. The following faults were identified and handled in this sequence on these dates:
33rd February : Bought car
34th February : Found fault a (brief outline of symtoms)
35th February : Reported to dealer, they agreed to resolve
36th February : Dealer resolved
32nd March : Fault b identified (symptoms again)
33rd March : Dealer asked for investigation to be done
37th March : Investigation done by zyx garages ltd
"
etc.
Prepare yourself by asking investigating garage to prepare a statement to the effect of an administration error or software configuration error on their part giving their report as a US date/incorrect date.
Stick to facts. You took it in, they said do this, you did this. Make sure you have every opportunity for them to resolve these issues recorded, every call, text, email, trip out to see them. It will add weight to any "fk this st, I'm getting it fixed myself and suing them for the losses" decision you have made further into the timeline. Do not lie, do not embellish, do not get emotive. Emotion loses valid cases because the valid points get lost in emotive rants.
"I bought x vehicle on y date. The following faults were identified and handled in this sequence on these dates:
33rd February : Bought car
34th February : Found fault a (brief outline of symtoms)
35th February : Reported to dealer, they agreed to resolve
36th February : Dealer resolved
32nd March : Fault b identified (symptoms again)
33rd March : Dealer asked for investigation to be done
37th March : Investigation done by zyx garages ltd
"
etc.
Prepare yourself by asking investigating garage to prepare a statement to the effect of an administration error or software configuration error on their part giving their report as a US date/incorrect date.
Stick to facts. You took it in, they said do this, you did this. Make sure you have every opportunity for them to resolve these issues recorded, every call, text, email, trip out to see them. It will add weight to any "f
k this st, I'm getting it fixed myself and suing them for the losses" decision you have made further into the timeline. Do not lie, do not embellish, do not get emotive. Emotion loses valid cases because the valid points get lost in emotive rants.hutchst said:
Before any of that, what's the basis for your claim? Are you claiming under the warranty or under the underlying contract for sale?
Goods of reasonable quality from the seller. You're not guaranteed a fault-free vehicle but driveline faults and roadworthiness even on a 12 year old car are fairly high in the list of things sellers are deemed to have met their obligations on. Stereo being broken and the lights misting up are much less likely to be arguable points.I'd leave the tracking out of discussions. That's maintenance. Hell I've even had to get it fixed on new vehicles!
Thanks for all your help guys, I really appreciate it.
I do, hopefully, have access to a recorded telephone call that says they were going to look at the gearbox if I fixed the prop centre bearing so that'll work in my favor. I'l have to have a transcript made by my employer.
The dealer was very keen in keeping things off paperwork. In hindsight, knowing they would get hung, drawn and quartered in court. I will have emails I have sent to them with explanations of why I have sent them too. While it won't be "evidence" of such, I used facebook messenger to relay exactly what has happened to various parties at the time it happened. This can at least back up the time frames and events that I tell the court to some degree I hope.
I'll start the MCOL process tonight and get ready to ride the roller coaster.
It's worth noting too, there are many, many reviews of them online pulling the same stunt. I guess it's got so bad, they've pulled reviews off their website and don't allow reviews on Facebook any more. My main gripes would be the money I spent on the gearbox, the prop centre bearing (as I believe this was failed at the time of purchase, within the 6 months on CRA anyway), the various fees for diagnoses I had on the vehicle and the wishbones I had replaced. Total value of these off the top of my head comes to £1125. The rest was fairly annoying but not unexpected for the age and type of the vehicle. If I include a set of wheels & tyres which definitely were faulty when sold to me then that rises to £1425.
I do, hopefully, have access to a recorded telephone call that says they were going to look at the gearbox if I fixed the prop centre bearing so that'll work in my favor. I'l have to have a transcript made by my employer.
The dealer was very keen in keeping things off paperwork. In hindsight, knowing they would get hung, drawn and quartered in court. I will have emails I have sent to them with explanations of why I have sent them too. While it won't be "evidence" of such, I used facebook messenger to relay exactly what has happened to various parties at the time it happened. This can at least back up the time frames and events that I tell the court to some degree I hope.
I'll start the MCOL process tonight and get ready to ride the roller coaster.
It's worth noting too, there are many, many reviews of them online pulling the same stunt. I guess it's got so bad, they've pulled reviews off their website and don't allow reviews on Facebook any more. My main gripes would be the money I spent on the gearbox, the prop centre bearing (as I believe this was failed at the time of purchase, within the 6 months on CRA anyway), the various fees for diagnoses I had on the vehicle and the wishbones I had replaced. Total value of these off the top of my head comes to £1125. The rest was fairly annoying but not unexpected for the age and type of the vehicle. If I include a set of wheels & tyres which definitely were faulty when sold to me then that rises to £1425.
Pegscratch said:
Goods of reasonable quality from the seller. You're not guaranteed a fault-free vehicle but driveline faults and roadworthiness even on a 12 year old car are fairly high in the list of things sellers are deemed to have met their obligations on. Stereo being broken and the lights misting up are much less likely to be arguable points.
I'd leave the tracking out of discussions. That's maintenance. Hell I've even had to get it fixed on new vehicles!
I personally wouldn't waste a single minute on that approach.I'd leave the tracking out of discussions. That's maintenance. Hell I've even had to get it fixed on new vehicles!
"I bought a 12 year old car that had done 130,000 miles and a few days later I found out that some of the parts were 12 years old and had done 130,000 miles" That doesn't seem like a winnable claim to me.
I might look at the warranty, but that would depend on its specific terms.
hutchst said:
I personally wouldn't waste a single minute on that approach.
"I bought a 12 year old car that had done 130,000 miles and a few days later I found out that some of the parts were 12 years old and had done 130,000 miles" That doesn't seem like a winnable claim to me.
I might look at the warranty, but that would depend on its specific terms.
Then you'd be wasting your time monumentally. The warranty is an insurance policy for the seller (and ultimately the owner). It does not diminish the seller's responsibilities or negate them with regard to the car being fit for purpose as a car. Things that can stop working and be let slide on a 12 year old car are things like infotainment, HVAC, cosmetics etc. Cracks in the wheels (not safe for use on the road) and a b"I bought a 12 year old car that had done 130,000 miles and a few days later I found out that some of the parts were 12 years old and had done 130,000 miles" That doesn't seem like a winnable claim to me.
I might look at the warranty, but that would depend on its specific terms.
ksed drivetrain do not fall into the things that can be wrong with a 12 year old car sold as a functional car.RazerSauber said:
Thanks for all your help guys, I really appreciate it.
I do, hopefully, have access to a recorded telephone call that says they were going to look at the gearbox if I fixed the prop centre bearing so that'll work in my favor. I'l have to have a transcript made by my employer.
The dealer was very keen in keeping things off paperwork. In hindsight, knowing they would get hung, drawn and quartered in court. I will have emails I have sent to them with explanations of why I have sent them too. While it won't be "evidence" of such, I used facebook messenger to relay exactly what has happened to various parties at the time it happened. This can at least back up the time frames and events that I tell the court to some degree I hope.
I'll start the MCOL process tonight and get ready to ride the roller coaster.
It's worth noting too, there are many, many reviews of them online pulling the same stunt. I guess it's got so bad, they've pulled reviews off their website and don't allow reviews on Facebook any more. My main gripes would be the money I spent on the gearbox, the prop centre bearing (as I believe this was failed at the time of purchase, within the 6 months on CRA anyway), the various fees for diagnoses I had on the vehicle and the wishbones I had replaced. Total value of these off the top of my head comes to £1125. The rest was fairly annoying but not unexpected for the age and type of the vehicle. If I include a set of wheels & tyres which definitely were faulty when sold to me then that rises to £1425.
Top tip for MCOL: write down your Username, Passwords etc ASAP. If you lose them, it’s a nightmare!!!!! It’s not just a reset...!I do, hopefully, have access to a recorded telephone call that says they were going to look at the gearbox if I fixed the prop centre bearing so that'll work in my favor. I'l have to have a transcript made by my employer.
The dealer was very keen in keeping things off paperwork. In hindsight, knowing they would get hung, drawn and quartered in court. I will have emails I have sent to them with explanations of why I have sent them too. While it won't be "evidence" of such, I used facebook messenger to relay exactly what has happened to various parties at the time it happened. This can at least back up the time frames and events that I tell the court to some degree I hope.
I'll start the MCOL process tonight and get ready to ride the roller coaster.
It's worth noting too, there are many, many reviews of them online pulling the same stunt. I guess it's got so bad, they've pulled reviews off their website and don't allow reviews on Facebook any more. My main gripes would be the money I spent on the gearbox, the prop centre bearing (as I believe this was failed at the time of purchase, within the 6 months on CRA anyway), the various fees for diagnoses I had on the vehicle and the wishbones I had replaced. Total value of these off the top of my head comes to £1125. The rest was fairly annoying but not unexpected for the age and type of the vehicle. If I include a set of wheels & tyres which definitely were faulty when sold to me then that rises to £1425.
Good luck OP.
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