Cycle question...
Discussion
walm said:
Graveworm said:
Most cyclists should accept that cyclists do bend the rules more than motorists.
What on earth makes you think that????This is utter and complete nonsense.
Most drivers admit to speeding. https://www.driving.co.uk/news/half-drivers-admit-...
A very much lower number of cyclists have been observed RLJing which is one of the very few rules cyclists can actually break. https://cyclinguphill.com/reviews/stats-cycling-re...
Please make me laugh - where is your evidence that cyclists break the rules more than drivers?????
Foss62 said:
walm said:
Graveworm said:
Most cyclists should accept that cyclists do bend the rules more than motorists.
What on earth makes you think that????This is utter and complete nonsense.
Most drivers admit to speeding. https://www.driving.co.uk/news/half-drivers-admit-...
A very much lower number of cyclists have been observed RLJing which is one of the very few rules cyclists can actually break. https://cyclinguphill.com/reviews/stats-cycling-re...
Please make me laugh - where is your evidence that cyclists break the rules more than drivers?????
And IIRC speeding isn't something you can do on a bike (except in the Royal Parks??).
So it is almost impossible for me to "bend the rules".
I strongly suspect that applies to a huge number of leisure cyclists outside of cities.
Driving? I probably break the speed limit every single time I drive. As does almost every car I see.
walm said:
Obviously anecdotes don't create real evidence but in my case there aren't any red lights where I cycle, nor pavements, nor one-way systems.
And IIRC speeding isn't something you can do on a bike (except in the Royal Parks??).
So it is almost impossible for me to "bend the rules".
I strongly suspect that applies to a huge number of leisure cyclists outside of cities.
Driving? I probably break the speed limit every single time I drive. As does almost every car I see.
Slight tangent, but a roadcraft equivalent for bicycles would be interesting.And IIRC speeding isn't something you can do on a bike (except in the Royal Parks??).
So it is almost impossible for me to "bend the rules".
I strongly suspect that applies to a huge number of leisure cyclists outside of cities.
Driving? I probably break the speed limit every single time I drive. As does almost every car I see.
Foss62 said:
I couldn’t agree more. I did my 12 mile commute in by bike this morning and didn’t break a single road traffic law. Even as a supposed ‘Advanced’ driver I would be hard pressed to claim this on any occasion I travel in by car.
The same as my experience this morning, ten miles though.The phrase walk a mile in my shoes comes to mind when commuting by bike to work. I love it to bits but virtually every day there is an incident that you literally have to take a deep breath over and think WTF.
Solocle said:
Slight tangent, but a roadcraft equivalent for bicycles would be interesting.
You could try this but I am sure most the PH driving gods will thoroughly disagree with it:https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/cycletraining/ar...
walm said:
Graveworm said:
Most cyclists should accept that cyclists do bend the rules more than motorists.
What on earth makes you think that????This is utter and complete nonsense.
Most drivers admit to speeding. https://www.driving.co.uk/news/half-drivers-admit-...
A very much lower number of cyclists have been observed RLJing which is one of the very few rules cyclists can actually break. https://cyclinguphill.com/reviews/stats-cycling-re...
Please make me laugh - where is your evidence that cyclists break the rules more than drivers?????
I guess I'll just cover all bases and continue to ride and drive until "da gubbermint" decides to ban one or the other. Then I'll carry on doing the one they didn't ban. I'm not saying which one I think is most likely, but I've got 9 bicycles (in varying states of repair) in my garage, but only one car on the drive...
Solocle said:
walm said:
Obviously anecdotes don't create real evidence but in my case there aren't any red lights where I cycle, nor pavements, nor one-way systems.
And IIRC speeding isn't something you can do on a bike (except in the Royal Parks??).
So it is almost impossible for me to "bend the rules".
I strongly suspect that applies to a huge number of leisure cyclists outside of cities.
Driving? I probably break the speed limit every single time I drive. As does almost every car I see.
Slight tangent, but a roadcraft equivalent for bicycles would be interesting.And IIRC speeding isn't something you can do on a bike (except in the Royal Parks??).
So it is almost impossible for me to "bend the rules".
I strongly suspect that applies to a huge number of leisure cyclists outside of cities.
Driving? I probably break the speed limit every single time I drive. As does almost every car I see.
jesusbuiltmycar said:
You could try this but I am sure most the PH driving gods will thoroughly disagree with it:
https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/cycletraining/ar...
https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/cycletraining/ar...
Something I just cooked up
IPK said:
Foss62 said:
I couldn’t agree more. I did my 12 mile commute in by bike this morning and didn’t break a single road traffic law. Even as a supposed ‘Advanced’ driver I would be hard pressed to claim this on any occasion I travel in by car.
The same as my experience this morning, ten miles though.The phrase walk a mile in my shoes comes to mind when commuting by bike to work. I love it to bits but virtually every day there is an incident that you literally have to take a deep breath over and think WTF.
Antony Moxey said:
iven that there are less cyclists on the road than there are uninsured motorists, I would suggest cyclists should accept no such thing.
Per mile ridden vs per mile driven I think it's a different story. I do both I drive about average amounts and cycle well above average. I tend to stick to the rules when cycling 100% but do exceed the speed limit when driving. However I do see an awful lot of red lights and pavement/where forbidden cycling I am pretty sure I don't see 73 times as many infractions by cars. Solocle said:
Depends where you are. In Oxford, 20% cycling, so you'd expect to see 5x more motor violations. The number of vehicles sat in ASLs, speeding, entering cycle lanes, making piss-poor overtakes..., easily dwarfs the cyclists jumping reds that I see. Of course, there's also the salmoning and ninja cyclists...
My perspective is further shifted by the fact that I'm generally doing 20 mph, so I've often got a lower speed differential on the motorists than I do on the cyclists (it's often like other cyclists are standing still).
Needless to say, the most dangerous stuff I see arises from the bad motorists. Bad cyclists are a much lesser hazard.
20% of journeys doesn't = 20 percent of the distance travelled. My perspective is further shifted by the fact that I'm generally doing 20 mph, so I've often got a lower speed differential on the motorists than I do on the cyclists (it's often like other cyclists are standing still).
Needless to say, the most dangerous stuff I see arises from the bad motorists. Bad cyclists are a much lesser hazard.
Cyclists are far less of a hazard to others but obviously hurt themselves in significant numbers. Per mile travelled they also kill and seriously injure about as many pedestrians as cars but the actual numbers are very small.
Edited by Graveworm on Wednesday 28th August 13:36
walm said:
Do you have any actual data to back up your opinion or are you just making stuff up?
Data on infringements - no purely anecdotal on my part but didn't Autoexpress do something some time ago? I don't think it's improved since then. I honestly didn't think that anyone would believe that it was only 1 percent of like for like violations though. Data on accidents that's all out there. Where. if it is relevant, we do find that cyclists are 4 times as likely to cause a collision going through a red light as car drivers (Per mile travelled).
Edited by Graveworm on Wednesday 28th August 14:03
Im a cyclist MTB really and i do ride on roads to get to trails, im currently riding with my missus and have now taught her to hold position and not get pushed into the kerbs and hedgerows...i do give way when i see the road ahead is clear and wave the cars behind me on particularly around bends when theyre unsighted... i haven't really recieived abuse from motorists...just nods and waves of thanks. I do live in a rather semi rural location so i believe attitudes are a little different from the big cities. I do make a conscious effort to accelerate quickly from junctions and pull onto kerbs and cycle paths where they present themselves admittedly a lit easier on a MTB than road bike...i accelerate through bottlenecks and keep an eye on whether im holding up traffic or not.
Aluminati said:
They usually appear at Garden Centre Cafe where missus helps out. Will they order as a group ? Will they f
k. They get their little leather purses out with the pocket money their carers have given them, and treble the size of the queue
How dare they have the cheek to spend their MONEY, why can't they go somewhere else!!!!!1111elevenk. They get their little leather purses out with the pocket money their carers have given them, and treble the size of the queue Graveworm said:
Most cyclists should accept that cyclists do bend the rules more than motorists.
toGraveworm said:
Data on infringements - no purely anecdotal on my part.
We do find that cyclists are 4 times as likely to cause a collision going through a red light as car drivers (Per mile travelled).
So cyclists should accept what exactly? Graveworm makes stuff up because he doesn't like people on bikes?We do find that cyclists are 4 times as likely to cause a collision going through a red light as car drivers (Per mile travelled).
Oh and feel free to link your actual sources because that seems an odd statistic.
I would be more worried about the facts from my earlier link
"Of pedestrians injured in London in a collision caused by red light jumping only 4% involve cyclists, whereas 71% occur when a car driver jumps a red light and 13% when a motorcyclist does."
https://cyclinguphill.com/reviews/stats-cycling-re...
Graveworm said:
walm said:
Do you have any actual data to back up your opinion or are you just making stuff up?
Data on infringements - no purely anecdotal on my part but didn't Autoexpress do something some time ago? I don't think it's improved since then. I honestly didn't think that anyone would believe that it was only 1 percent of like for like violations though. Data on accidents that's all out there. Where. if it is relevant, we do find that cyclists are 4 times as likely to cause a collision going through a red light as car drivers (Per mile travelled).
Edited by Graveworm on Wednesday 28th August 14:03
Cyclists on the other hand are not subject to speed limits (excepting a few odd situations) so there are fewer possibilities for law breaking.
I am trying to get my head round your red light statistic, but if cyclists are only 4 times more likely to cause a red light collision per mile then this would suggest that per individual they are MUCH LESS likely to cause such a collision.
I must admit, I am not greatly impressed by the rage about cyclists red light running. I suspect most of the observed incidents are completely safe left turns. With no licence to lose SOME cyclists will take these as fair game. Watching car drivers turn incandescent, but then pull away and accelerate up to 22 in a 20 or 33 in a 30 whilst muttering darkly about law breaking cyclists.
Graveworm said:
lyonspride said:
Yes, but due to speed differential you have "interactions" with more drivers during your commute than a driver does (and less cyclists), as they'll probably be behind and in front of the same 2 vehicles for most of their commute. Equally on the same note and for the same reasons, in traffic drivers encounter more cyclists on their commute, than they do drivers.
So percentage wise a driver is more likely to see a cyclist breaking the law, and a cyclist is more likely to see drivers breaking the law.
Not to mention cyclists on a journey will make up 1/78 of cars... So if it were 50:50 one would see 78 times as many. Whether I am cycling or driving some offences are far more prevalent with cyclists but others are more prevalent with cars/motorists but overall it's not proportionate and most cyclists should accept that cyclists do bend the rules more than motorists. It's of course a complete deflection to say that, because one group does something wrong, then no criticisms can be leveled by them.So percentage wise a driver is more likely to see a cyclist breaking the law, and a cyclist is more likely to see drivers breaking the law.
That's the problem though, people bundle in youths and children in with cyclists and worse they kinda see cyclists as being badly behaved children.
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