Discussion
I regularly drive past this camera.
If everyone drove well then there would be no problem with an NSL, but with the fall in driving standards maybe not simply because of the slip road onthenoff just before the camera. Yes, 50 is still way too low.
The area is covered by Northumbria Safety Camera Partnership. They are t
ts (seven days and still no reply to my question). The siting of this camera was based on speed studies and scamming the raod just there as people accelerate down the hill of the dip for the approaching NSL.
I wonder if NSCP removed from their figures to support these cameras all those 'incidents' where the civilian operators got it wrong and recorded incorrectly high speeds. I suspect not.
Adom, I take it you like the ones in Cradlewell just as much?
If everyone drove well then there would be no problem with an NSL, but with the fall in driving standards maybe not simply because of the slip road onthenoff just before the camera. Yes, 50 is still way too low.
The area is covered by Northumbria Safety Camera Partnership. They are t
ts (seven days and still no reply to my question). The siting of this camera was based on speed studies and scamming the raod just there as people accelerate down the hill of the dip for the approaching NSL. I wonder if NSCP removed from their figures to support these cameras all those 'incidents' where the civilian operators got it wrong and recorded incorrectly high speeds. I suspect not.
Adom, I take it you like the ones in Cradlewell just as much?
busa_rush said:
That will include when your car is stolen, your house burgled or you happen to get punched on the nose for your wallet then 
That happens now, how many forces turn out for car crime these days ? Some of them specifically state that they will not send an officer for a break in to a car, they just issue a crime number by telephone.
As for the rest, it seems to largly depend on where you live !
1. What is the point sending an officer to look at an empty space when your car is nicked? There are more important things at stake like sending officers to deal with your neighbour who cannot resist battering his/her partner after an arguement about the telly controls
. 2. Stolen cars that are recovered are ususally examined by SOCO. Any evidence gained is dealt with and if offenders are identified, then they are dealt with by Police procedure. After that procedure, the result is largely down to the willingness of aggrieved parties to support the action and the court system to dispense the punishment deemed appropriate after those who defend the guilty have done their damnedest to find a chink in the evidence and an acquital
3. Much car crime is avoidable! Those that leave valuable items in their cars even though they percieve that the valuables are hidden have one person to blame! Unfortunately it is very rarely themselves
I've kept quiet about my problem with the police, but now is the time....
About November time last year, my car was parked on the road where my girlfriend lives. I'm not parked opposite anyones drive, but I am slightly offset from one. Go to car the next morning to find a large rear bumper shaped dent in the front wing and drivers door. As it was dark when it happened, the guy who did it obviously got out and had a feel of the damage (its a black car, it was dark, so he won't have been able to see) and left numerous finger prints on it that even I could see from 5 yards away.
There was only one person who it could have been. Three hours later a plod turned up who suggested it may have been kids kicking it. I pinted out the fingerprints, he said there was no way in hell that forensics would take a sample for "a bit of damage to a car". He eventually agrees that it might be the guy I suspect and suggests I try and have a civilised chat with him when he gets in from work. Six hours later, and with my dad in attendence, I go and try and have a chat with the guy in question.
Before I even get the chance to ask him if he knows anything, he threatens to smash my effin head in a number of times, calls me a little (i'm a 6'2 14 stone (alleged)athlete, to illustrate what he considered small), threatens to kill my dad etc etc. Got a look at the car (Audi A4) and the rear bumper is somewhat misaligned but not superficially damaged as it was a new bumper. He was late from work so probably got a new one fitted. Went to inspect the other corner just to make sure and his dumb wife yells "it wasn't that side that hit".
Rang the police to report him for threatening behaviour and left a message for the officer in question to ring me. Did I ever hear anything again? Did I heck, but I did need a new door, front wing and for the lower hinge to be pulled out. £1k, nice, thanks for the help.
About November time last year, my car was parked on the road where my girlfriend lives. I'm not parked opposite anyones drive, but I am slightly offset from one. Go to car the next morning to find a large rear bumper shaped dent in the front wing and drivers door. As it was dark when it happened, the guy who did it obviously got out and had a feel of the damage (its a black car, it was dark, so he won't have been able to see) and left numerous finger prints on it that even I could see from 5 yards away.
There was only one person who it could have been. Three hours later a plod turned up who suggested it may have been kids kicking it. I pinted out the fingerprints, he said there was no way in hell that forensics would take a sample for "a bit of damage to a car". He eventually agrees that it might be the guy I suspect and suggests I try and have a civilised chat with him when he gets in from work. Six hours later, and with my dad in attendence, I go and try and have a chat with the guy in question.
Before I even get the chance to ask him if he knows anything, he threatens to smash my effin head in a number of times, calls me a little
(i'm a 6'2 14 stone (alleged)athlete, to illustrate what he considered small), threatens to kill my dad etc etc. Got a look at the car (Audi A4) and the rear bumper is somewhat misaligned but not superficially damaged as it was a new bumper. He was late from work so probably got a new one fitted. Went to inspect the other corner just to make sure and his dumb wife yells "it wasn't that side that hit". Rang the police to report him for threatening behaviour and left a message for the officer in question to ring me. Did I ever hear anything again? Did I heck, but I did need a new door, front wing and for the lower hinge to be pulled out. £1k, nice, thanks for the help.
gone said:
gone said:
That will include when your car is stolen, your house burgled or you happen to get punched on the nose for your wallet then
That happens now, how many forces turn out for car crime these days ? Some of them specifically state that they will not send an officer for a break in to a car, they just issue a crime number by telephone.
As for the rest, it seems to largly depend on where you live !
1. What is the point sending an officer to look at an empty space when your car is nicked?
Because that is what the public wants! I want them to come to my house and go and knock on my neighbours doors and check the CCTV and refer to the traffic master system and do whatever they can to make me feel that the police service i am paying for is there for me when I need them.
Gone said:
2. Stolen cars that are recovered are ususally examined by SOCO. Any evidence gained is dealt with and if offenders are identified, then they are dealt with by Police procedure. After that procedure, the result is largely down to the willingness of aggrieved parties to support the action and the court system to dispense the punishment deemed appropriate after those who defend the guilty have done their damnedest to find a chink in the evidence and an acquital
Fair point, but I bet there is not too much effort made to identify the thief off a stolen car that has been recovered, why bother when its more cash efficient to just let the owner and the insurance take care of it.
gone said:
3. Much car crime is avoidable! Those that leave valuable items in their cars even though they percieve that the valuables are hidden have one person to blame! Unfortunately it is very rarely themselves
Ah yes, its OUR fault when we get robbed...I forgot about that defense.
How silly of me to try and use my mobile phone in public, i should expect to be mugged for it really.
Same goes for leaving my own possessions in my own car in my own driveway...I deserve everything i get, and as such I am on my own...so long as i don't forget to pay my council tax, then they will certainly show some interest in me!
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Thanks for your opinion
! It is about what might be expected
People that leave valuables in their car have little symapthy from me or my colleagues, wherever they leave the car and the valuables in it.
If you use valuable equipment in an area that you are likley to get robbed of it, then you have not much sympathy from me or my colleagues
Except of course for the injury you may have received in the process. If you display valuable stuff and are not aware of your impending predicatment, then you need to re-assess your niaivity
. >> Edited by gone on Friday 3rd June 12:21
hedders said:
Because that is what the public wants! I want them to come to my house and go and knock on my neighbours doors and check the CCTV and refer to the traffic master system and do whatever they can to make me feel that the police service i am paying for is there for me when I need them.
Too much to expect someone to actually ask a neighbour themselves then?
Or do you not speak to your neighbours? Can you check the CCTV yourself or do you need a Policeman/woman to do that too?
The Police service is there for everyone when they are needed. It just depends on the degree of need
It is much the same as people who phone the police service because there is glass in the road!
Why not get a broom and sweep it up then
? (unless of course it happens to be in the middle of a very busy road but often it is not, it just happens to be outside my house and inconvenient ) hedders said:
Fair point,
Ahem. "Tonker"
hedders said:
but I bet there is not too much effort made to identify the thief off a stolen car that has been recovered, why bother when its more cash efficient to just let the owner and the insurance take care of it.
Not at all. It is a sanction detection which is what the Govt and the puzzle palace want!
hedders said:
Ah yes, its OUR fault when we get robbed...I forgot about that defense.
It very often is a combination of carelessness and abject niaivity on the part of the victim!
It does not excuse the behaviour of the perpetrator but often could be avoided by a little smart thinking by the potential victim!
hedders said:
How silly of me to try and use my mobile phone in public, i should expect to be mugged for it really.
Exactly! If you use it in an area where you are vulnerable, then it is likely to happen! It is not likely to happen in areas where there is high population activity or you are in a building/place where theiving eyes cannot see you!
hedders said:
Same goes for leaving my own possessions in my own car in my own driveway...I deserve everything i get, and as such I am on my own...so long as i don't forget to pay my council tax, then they will certainly show some interest in me!
Quite
>> Edited by gone on Friday 3rd June 12:34
Tonker - 
Sorry gone, but blaming the public for being victims of crime is beyond the pale - yes, there ARE things we can do to reduce our risk, but ultimately the biggest thing society as a whole can do is POLICE the problem properly - something which is not happening.
Our experiences:-
- My g-f's car got broken into when she was in docs one winter evening - door bent open at the top, underside of steering column surround ripped off, wires exposed, steering column itself bent when they broke the column lock. Basically someone was trying to nick it, and either got disturbed or realised they'd buggered the steering and left it. Called the police, asked if they were going to send a SOCO for fingerprints etc. Told no, not unless we wanted to wait 4-5hrs...and anyway, weren't we a member of the AA - they can get us home! Totally disinterested beyond giving us a crime ref.
- My car broken into and stereo (back half only, so the tw@ts couldn't use it!) nicked in hotel car park in Chesterfield - same experience.
- I was assaulted over a car-parking space some years back in kent. I even had a witness. Reported it, coppers went to interview the other bloke, came back and said he'd given them a different story, but they'd given him a verbal (I think unofficial) caution anyway (they could see the scratching and bruising around my neck, FFS!). As for the witness, they didn't even bother contacting him - I'd shown them his business card, FFS! Assault with a witness and they can't even be bothered!
- Neighbours garage broken into 3 times in not many more months (lodger was keeping his professional tools in there). My neighbour's two sons (20 and 17) actually caught the scummy kids that did it the third time (old neighbour spotted them in the act and let us know - was "travellers" camping on what WAS a nice playing field just down the road...funnily enough, had been there about 4-5 months!), they had the toolboxes in hand. But did the police do anything...no, of course they effing didn't. In-ing-flagrante and the police don't do anything!!!
And this morning, my (now) fiancee was driving up the M69, the car that overtook her suddenly pulled in and braked, so she pulled out and put her foot down a bit, swearing at the idiot, then suddenly spots a police 4x4 with the tailgate glass open on the hard shoulder. She's now waiting for the NIP. Speed? Maybe 85 indicated, so probably 80-or-so actual. Which if you know the M69, know that's quite slow for what is safe, and for what is regularly driven, on that road.
Funnily enough, our opinion of the police is rather low, as every time we've been the victim of crime, they've done virtually nothing. Yet we're now paranoid, like much of the population, about breaking out-of-date speed limits. That other driver clearly was so paranoid about them to brake directly in front of another car!!!
Oh - gone - we as public expect the police to SERVE society. This means dealing with threats to society with an appropriate level of response, i.e. murders, rapes etc. get maximum attention, a car stereo ranks very low down (accepted), but speeding outside of built-up areas should NOT be getting the level of resources it currently is - IMHO it is this mismatch, this sledghammer at a nut, that is contributing (through resource lack) to police failures to adequately address other crimes, notably the rise in gangs and the redcution in perceived public safety in towns and cities at night.
Sorry gone, but blaming the public for being victims of crime is beyond the pale - yes, there ARE things we can do to reduce our risk, but ultimately the biggest thing society as a whole can do is POLICE the problem properly - something which is not happening.
Our experiences:-
- My g-f's car got broken into when she was in docs one winter evening - door bent open at the top, underside of steering column surround ripped off, wires exposed, steering column itself bent when they broke the column lock. Basically someone was trying to nick it, and either got disturbed or realised they'd buggered the steering and left it. Called the police, asked if they were going to send a SOCO for fingerprints etc. Told no, not unless we wanted to wait 4-5hrs...and anyway, weren't we a member of the AA - they can get us home! Totally disinterested beyond giving us a crime ref.
- My car broken into and stereo (back half only, so the tw@ts couldn't use it!) nicked in hotel car park in Chesterfield - same experience.
- I was assaulted over a car-parking space some years back in kent. I even had a witness. Reported it, coppers went to interview the other bloke, came back and said he'd given them a different story, but they'd given him a verbal (I think unofficial) caution anyway (they could see the scratching and bruising around my neck, FFS!). As for the witness, they didn't even bother contacting him - I'd shown them his business card, FFS! Assault with a witness and they can't even be bothered!
- Neighbours garage broken into 3 times in not many more months (lodger was keeping his professional tools in there). My neighbour's two sons (20 and 17) actually caught the scummy kids that did it the third time (old neighbour spotted them in the act and let us know - was "travellers" camping on what WAS a nice playing field just down the road...funnily enough, had been there about 4-5 months!), they had the toolboxes in hand. But did the police do anything...no, of course they effing didn't. In-
ing-flagrante and the police don't do anything!!! And this morning, my (now) fiancee was driving up the M69, the car that overtook her suddenly pulled in and braked, so she pulled out and put her foot down a bit, swearing at the idiot, then suddenly spots a police 4x4 with the tailgate glass open on the hard shoulder. She's now waiting for the NIP. Speed? Maybe 85 indicated, so probably 80-or-so actual. Which if you know the M69, know that's quite slow for what is safe, and for what is regularly driven, on that road.
Funnily enough, our opinion of the police is rather low, as every time we've been the victim of crime, they've done virtually nothing. Yet we're now paranoid, like much of the population, about breaking out-of-date speed limits. That other driver clearly was so paranoid about them to brake directly in front of another car!!!
Oh - gone - we as public expect the police to SERVE society. This means dealing with threats to society with an appropriate level of response, i.e. murders, rapes etc. get maximum attention, a car stereo ranks very low down (accepted), but speeding outside of built-up areas should NOT be getting the level of resources it currently is - IMHO it is this mismatch, this sledghammer at a nut, that is contributing (through resource lack) to police failures to adequately address other crimes, notably the rise in gangs and the redcution in perceived public safety in towns and cities at night.
havoc said:
Tonker -
Sorry gone, but blaming the public for being victims of crime is beyond the pale - yes, there ARE things we can do to reduce our risk, but ultimately the biggest thing [bigsociety as a whole can do is POLICE the problem properly - something which is not happening.
Society is not just the Police!
Quite for the rest of it
havoc said:
....... and the police don't do anything!!!
And you would know
havoc said:
Oh - gone - we as public expect the police to SERVE society. This means dealing with threats to society with an appropriate level of response, i.e. murders, rapes etc. get maximum attention, a car stereo ranks very low down (accepted), but speeding outside of built-up areas should NOT be getting the level of resources it currently is -
That is within your own destiny?
If you do not want police attention then be more careful. That includes becoming a potential victim too, whether from the Police themselves ( as a motorist without concentration) or from someone who will cause you to call the police to record your loss
havoc said:
police failures to adequately address other crimes,
You are making it up Havoc
According to the latest crime stats anyway because they reflect the exact opposite of your opinion! havoc said:
notably the rise in gangs and the redcution in perceived public safety in towns and cities at night.
And that is the fault of the Police?
There are only a finite number of police. They cannot be in your street at night protecting your property and in the towns as well protecting you from gangs!
Who makes up the gangs?
Someones children (we were all children once
)! Where is the repsonsibility or the condemnation of the parents who's 'children
' run amok amongst society? >> Edited by gone on Friday 3rd June 12:52
gone said:
Because that is what the public wants! I want them to come to my house and go and knock on my neighbours doors and check the CCTV and refer to the traffic master system and do whatever they can to make me feel that the police service i am paying for is there for me when I need them.
Too much to expect someone to actually ask a neighbour themselves then?
Can you check the CCTV yourself or do you need a Policeman/woman to do that too?
The Police service is there for everyone when they are needed. It just depends on the degree of need
Of course I could go and talk to my neighbours Myself, but perhaps not if i suspected it was them who were the crims!
I could just find and kill the crims if it is my responsibility now, but it seems like I am not allowed to do anything and the police refuse to do anything...
RE the CCTV thing, no I don't think I can check the Councils CCTV footage myself, I only help pay for it, I don't have access to it!
I understand that there are lots of demands on the Police's time, and lots of time wasters who call up to report cats in tree's etc. The thing is there have always been these problems yet the police used to provide a service that most of us feel we no longer get even though there are 'more police than ever' and 'crime is on the decrease'.
>> Edited by hedders on Friday 3rd June 13:12
gone said:
It very often is a combination of carelessness and abject niaivity on the part of the victim!
It does not excuse the behaviour of the perpetrator but often could be avoided by a little smart thinking by the potential victim!
I think it would be more likely that the crime would just shift to someone else. Like the original perceived "safety" of CCTV - the crimes were still being committed just elsewhere. If we all made it a little harder for criminals to commit crime then the criminals would just become a little harder.
Smart thinking just lowers your chances of becoming a victim - it doesn't make society safer......
gone said:
havoc said:
notably the rise in gangs and the redcution in perceived public safety in towns and cities at night.
And that is the fault of the Police?
There are only a finite number of police. They cannot be in your street at night protecting your property and in the towns as well protecting you from gangs!
In my experience (go into town most weekends) they are neither, sometimes see a few coppers putting parking tickets on cars in the town centre pre-10pm time
but later?... No, nowhere to be seen unless its to react to the inevitable punch-up, and don't seem to see any on the walk (when I dare to) home either. A greater police presence is what I think most of the public want - and not in those
scamvans either. A bit of proactive policing not reactive 'cos for some poor sod it can be too late by then, its becoming so common to hear of people being murdered after a night out no-one seems to bat an eyelid any more. Edited to add: Just a thought but town is literally SWARMING with coppers when there's a football match on... can't be a lack of resources then can it
>> Edited by maxrider on Friday 3rd June 14:26
gone said:
Exactly! If you use it in an area where you are vulnerable, then it is likely to happen! It is not likely to happen in areas where there is high population activity or you are in a building/place where theiving eyes cannot see you!
This happen because the police do SOD ALL about crime in the UK for peple like me - general 'middle England' tax payer. They're more interested in having a quiet day and keeping their pension contributions racking up whilst the rest of us face ever increasing council tax to pay for their appauling service.
My view will be very different from yours but you talk about attitude of people who are victims, but what about the attitude of the police ? General improvement there would work wonders.
busa_rush said:
This happen because the police do SOD ALL about crime in the UK for peple like me - general 'middle England' tax payer. They're more interested in having a quiet day and keeping their pension contributions racking up whilst the rest of us face ever increasing council tax to pay for their appauling service.
My view will be very different from yours but you talk about attitude of people who are victims, but what about the attitude of the police ? General improvement there would work wonders.
Have you EVER had any dealings with me? Probably not. If I do "SOD ALL" about crime, can you please explain why a couple of weekends ago, when I should have worked 8am-4pm, I actually worked from 7.30am-8pm, 7.30am-10pm and 7.30am-8pm. Yes, I did get paid for the extra hours I worked, but it wasn't optional.
I am now also responsible for 3-4 very new PCs, as their "supervisor", without any increase in pay/improvement in conditions. I have to make sure that they know what they are doing, as well as checking that the paperwork provided to us is up to scratch before the prisoners are dealt with, so I am all but supervising other officers too.
I have to make sure that there is continuity of evidence, not just for exhibits, but for statements and the like as well.
I have also lost out on the Special Priority Payment of £1,200 a year, and have had to shell out about £1,000 from my own pocket to buy suits etc. My choice, I know, but please don't presume to sit safely behind your keyboard and monitor, and try to tell me I am doing "SOD ALL".
Or perhaps you think you "Middle Engalnders" could do things like this and not get fed up with people whingeing incessantly.
Its not really the fault of the police, more like the law of the land doesnt protect the law abiding... and I think it is going to come to crisis point in the not too distant future, why should we as people who pay insurance, taxes etc continually get shafted by those who dont? And the only people who seem to be able to afford to have lots of children are the jobless scrotes with no respect for anyone, who are multiplying at horrifying rates, so its going to get worse...
I'm bitter at the moment because a driver pissed out of his face (without insurance) drove into my wife, gave false details and although the police know where he lives, it looks like nothing can/will be done. Chances are, we either let insurance cover it and the wife loses 3 years bonus (worth about £1800 over next 3 years) or I cough up the £1600 to repair the car. Cool. I work my arse off to fund a pissed up ***** driving adventures.
I'm bitter at the moment because a driver pissed out of his face (without insurance) drove into my wife, gave false details and although the police know where he lives, it looks like nothing can/will be done. Chances are, we either let insurance cover it and the wife loses 3 years bonus (worth about £1800 over next 3 years) or I cough up the £1600 to repair the car. Cool. I work my arse off to fund a pissed up ***** driving adventures.
gone said:
You are making it up Havoc
Are you not just a little curious about the way the stats are sourced/prepared and presented?
Its interesting that the referrals to agencies that help support victims of crime dont reflect the stats as presented. And any police chiefs who speak out about growing crime seem to get canned/diciplined somewhat promptly....
I have very little expertise in this area so could be very wrong, but have consistently be dismayed how various statistics are misrepresented in a wide range of areas. More like marketing than accurate information.
lieber gone said:
havoc said:
....... and the police don't do anything!!!
And you would know
Liebchen - I read (OK -so it was a tabloid
of shopkeeper whose break-in was caught on CCTV. Only - it was a Sunday - und the police do not look at Sunday footage... was what they reported - as ist "Sunday" 
Whether this was "StUn" being "StUN" again - have no idea. But my cousin in Wales has CCTV cams - und she copped her thugs nicking her jazzed up lawn mower (OK - ist tractor type - und
- she races it up und down her garden (und her dog rides pillion und barks encouragement 
) - und practises her cornering around her flowerbeds... We are sad anoraks that way.... Anyway... police never bothered to turn up und her old lawn mower has never been recovered as yet. She bought another one - but was told she was not allowed to place an electrical current on her garden shed door.
as this would harm the ickle dears mit the light fingers.... liebr gone said:
Oh - gone - we as public expect the police to SERVE society. This means dealing with threats to society with an appropriate level of response, i.e. murders, rapes etc. get maximum attention, a car stereo ranks very low down (accepted), but speeding outside of built-up areas should NOT be getting the level of resources it currently is -
That is within your own destiny?
If you do not want police attention then be more careful. That includes becoming a potential victim too, whether from the Police themselves ( as a motorist without concentration) or from someone who will cause you to call the police to record your loss
This family takes all precaution - but it did not stop burglaries. They will always try to grab your belongings - nicht? But if I am at home und someone ist prowling outside - I want a policeman to come und arrest him. Ist simple.
I do not want to be a statistic of attacked in own home - but I think he might come off worse as Ted's golf clubs are to hand... lieber gone said:
police failures to adequately address other crimes,
You are making it up Havoc
Ach! the magic statistics
NHS ist in good shape.... Education - they all get As und teachers are doing greatest job
These kids cannot do simplest sums or read ...und human brains are not evolving to genius IQ in one generation Und crime ist the same if not worse. Ist the different ways of recording it! (Und we know this from way Ted has to complete his NHS stats... he looks far too good on this... it reads like he actually does some work!
) lieber gone said:
notably the rise in gangs and the redcution in perceived public safety in towns and cities at night.
And that is the fault of the Police?
There are only a finite number of police. They cannot be in your street at night protecting your property and in the towns as well protecting you from gangs!
Ist how your managers deply you und quality of your "intelligence2 - Liebchen!
We expect you to be where the trouble ist - und yet leave enough on stand-by to protect us from those who go a-robbing us in our homes.
Und - of course - if you were on patrol instead of some twits relying on the talivans und Gatsos - then you would see und be able to respond all the quicker
lieber gone said:
Who makes up the gangs?
Someones children (we were all children once
Where is the repsonsibility or the condemnation of the parents who's 'children
>> Edited by gone on Friday 3rd June 12:52
Liebchen ... perhaps ist mix of teenage pregnancies. It still pays to be single mama mit all those tax credits. We are still paying for them - und probably paying more to keep them than we did before we made some minimum wage non-jobs for these girls. Ist a case of educating not to get pregnant too early; Ist a case of educating parents und improving life skill education instead of concentrating on dumbed down one size fits all "academic qualifications".
ist a case of rounding up these feral children und actually teaching them proper moral values und old fashioned right und wrong. Und Ja - I am not afraid of telling the kittens that there are consequences from my claws if they continue to misbehave.
(Und have never had to ... ist in the voice und in the eyes 
)Back to the original point:
Minor speeding offences have been decriminalised to the point where they're now almost as irrelevant as parking tickets. If you get with the right insurance company (ie Liverpool Victoria / Frizzell) they don't even care any more.
The only possible problem is that if you keep 'losing concentration' then you'll pick up more penalty's and eventually get banned - however the government wants to reduce the number of points to give themselves increased revenue opportunity.
I got 'fined' £20 for forgetting to pay my credit card bill last month - never done it before, just completely slipped my mind. So it's not only driving where innattention can result in a penalty.
Minor speeding offences have been decriminalised to the point where they're now almost as irrelevant as parking tickets. If you get with the right insurance company (ie Liverpool Victoria / Frizzell) they don't even care any more.
The only possible problem is that if you keep 'losing concentration' then you'll pick up more penalty's and eventually get banned - however the government wants to reduce the number of points to give themselves increased revenue opportunity.
I got 'fined' £20 for forgetting to pay my credit card bill last month - never done it before, just completely slipped my mind. So it's not only driving where innattention can result in a penalty.
tonker
I didn't say I disagreed with the public's perception of crime and "lack" of Police action. I'd even agree that there are many otherwise law abiding members of the public who now see "the Police" as "the Enemy".
I do take exception to the more personal insults on here; perhaps I shouldn't, because I don't think I've ever met a PHer while I've been at work, so the complaints can't be aimed at me directly, can they?
I do accept that the public feel they get a very poor service from the Police, but a lot of the time, I don't think that complaint is fair. It's always the front-line, operational officers that get it in the neck. They have to put up with being moaned at by both ends - the public and the bosses.
You may have seen the news reports about the two young lads going in to the sea at Blackpool last weekend, and unfortunately drowning (although to date only one body has been recovered). That incident tied up a large majority of the officers in the busiest sector of the division for at least 36 hours – on a busy Bank Holiday weekend.
Now if you’ve been burgled out in the suburbs during those 36 hours, you, quite rightly, want a quick response from the Police.
But you went out shopping at 9am that morning, and it’s now 3pm. The burglar is long gone. The PC who is sent to you has a number of his or her own enquiries already. The team of 8 he or she works on is carrying (long term) two or three vacancies, which never seem to be filled. The PC has 12 months’ service in, and was tutored by a colleague who only has 2 years’ service. The irate householder’s opening words are “What took you two days to get here?” The PC has just started work, and has turned straight out to go and take details of the burglary. Now they’re getting it in the neck from the victim. So they do the house-to-house, fill in the burglary pack, ring the crime bureau for a crime number (but can’t get through, because they’re understaffed too, so they write out the crime book and fax it through), arrange for SOCO to turn up. No-one else is doing the officer’s other jobs for them.
Meanwhile, the radio is going – constantly. They end up arresting a known juvenile shoplifter – a repeat offender – because the store security hasn’t turfed the little oik out of the store. Security watch the oik nick the CD, and then detain them. The Panda driver then arrests the oik. A van is called for, but there’s already a queue to book prisoners into custody, so there are no vans clear. 30 minutes later, a van arrives. The oik is taken to custody, but there’s another hour’s wait to book him in. The oik’s parents refuse to come down for interview, so the PC has to arrange for Social Services, and the oik’s solicitor. Time’s getting on, and the radio’s still going.
The PC goes back out and takes the two witness statements from the store – one from the Security guard who witnessed the theft, and one from the store manager as the aggrieved party. The PC gets the security guard to fill in the “retention of stolen property” form, and then checks and seizes the store CCTV tape, then books it into the evidence related property system.
Eventually the little oik is interviewed, with the social worker and solicitor present. He denies the offence, despite it being captured on CCTV. The parents aren’t willing to have him back, and social services can’t accommodate him, so he’ll have to be remanded in Police custody of charged. It’s “out of hours” now, so the PC has to write up another form, transcribe the interview, and phone CPS Direct for advice, and fax all the paperwork through to them. He also gets a print of the oik’s previous convictions to fax through with the statements and the transcript. The PC then has to sit with the phone in their hand while the CPS lawyer reads through the evidence and makes a charging decision. The CPS lawyer authorises a charge, so the PC goes back to the custody office.
The PC has to wait another 40 minutes until they get to the head of the queue of people waiting to speak to the custody officer (who has already been at work ten hours, and has 26 other people in custody to worry about). The charges are prepared, the oik is charged, and the PC then goes and does the file. They write up their statement, copy the CCTV, print out copies of the incident log and the crime report (that they’ve also had to update to “detected”) – assuming they can find a computer that works that’s linked to a printer that works. Then because the oik will be appearing before the Saturday remand Court, the PC has to do two photocopies of the file and five copies of the oik’s previous convictions, as there are no clerical staff in at the weekend to do this.
Of course, because it’s the weekend, the photocopier the PC would usually use is out of toner, so the PC spends 10 minutes playing “hunt the working photocopier”. Finally, the PC is done, only for them to have to turn out straight away to a fight in the town centre, because the Stag party’s been in the pub all afternoon, drinking the Two for One Stella that’s on offer…
Meanwhile, the phones in the control room are still ringing non stop, the jobs are stacking up on the dispatcher’s screens, and there are 6 PCs trying to do the work of 8. It’s getting busier.
Now there’s a serious two car accident, persons trapped…
…and a repeat domestic violence victim has called in; her partner’s broken her arm. Again…
…and a four year old child has gone missing on one of the local authority housing estates…
Still think the Police are doing “SOD ALL”…?
I didn't say I disagreed with the public's perception of crime and "lack" of Police action. I'd even agree that there are many otherwise law abiding members of the public who now see "the Police" as "the Enemy".
I do take exception to the more personal insults on here; perhaps I shouldn't, because I don't think I've ever met a PHer while I've been at work, so the complaints can't be aimed at me directly, can they?
I do accept that the public feel they get a very poor service from the Police, but a lot of the time, I don't think that complaint is fair. It's always the front-line, operational officers that get it in the neck. They have to put up with being moaned at by both ends - the public and the bosses.
You may have seen the news reports about the two young lads going in to the sea at Blackpool last weekend, and unfortunately drowning (although to date only one body has been recovered). That incident tied up a large majority of the officers in the busiest sector of the division for at least 36 hours – on a busy Bank Holiday weekend.
Now if you’ve been burgled out in the suburbs during those 36 hours, you, quite rightly, want a quick response from the Police.
But you went out shopping at 9am that morning, and it’s now 3pm. The burglar is long gone. The PC who is sent to you has a number of his or her own enquiries already. The team of 8 he or she works on is carrying (long term) two or three vacancies, which never seem to be filled. The PC has 12 months’ service in, and was tutored by a colleague who only has 2 years’ service. The irate householder’s opening words are “What took you two days to get here?” The PC has just started work, and has turned straight out to go and take details of the burglary. Now they’re getting it in the neck from the victim. So they do the house-to-house, fill in the burglary pack, ring the crime bureau for a crime number (but can’t get through, because they’re understaffed too, so they write out the crime book and fax it through), arrange for SOCO to turn up. No-one else is doing the officer’s other jobs for them.
Meanwhile, the radio is going – constantly. They end up arresting a known juvenile shoplifter – a repeat offender – because the store security hasn’t turfed the little oik out of the store. Security watch the oik nick the CD, and then detain them. The Panda driver then arrests the oik. A van is called for, but there’s already a queue to book prisoners into custody, so there are no vans clear. 30 minutes later, a van arrives. The oik is taken to custody, but there’s another hour’s wait to book him in. The oik’s parents refuse to come down for interview, so the PC has to arrange for Social Services, and the oik’s solicitor. Time’s getting on, and the radio’s still going.
The PC goes back out and takes the two witness statements from the store – one from the Security guard who witnessed the theft, and one from the store manager as the aggrieved party. The PC gets the security guard to fill in the “retention of stolen property” form, and then checks and seizes the store CCTV tape, then books it into the evidence related property system.
Eventually the little oik is interviewed, with the social worker and solicitor present. He denies the offence, despite it being captured on CCTV. The parents aren’t willing to have him back, and social services can’t accommodate him, so he’ll have to be remanded in Police custody of charged. It’s “out of hours” now, so the PC has to write up another form, transcribe the interview, and phone CPS Direct for advice, and fax all the paperwork through to them. He also gets a print of the oik’s previous convictions to fax through with the statements and the transcript. The PC then has to sit with the phone in their hand while the CPS lawyer reads through the evidence and makes a charging decision. The CPS lawyer authorises a charge, so the PC goes back to the custody office.
The PC has to wait another 40 minutes until they get to the head of the queue of people waiting to speak to the custody officer (who has already been at work ten hours, and has 26 other people in custody to worry about). The charges are prepared, the oik is charged, and the PC then goes and does the file. They write up their statement, copy the CCTV, print out copies of the incident log and the crime report (that they’ve also had to update to “detected”) – assuming they can find a computer that works that’s linked to a printer that works. Then because the oik will be appearing before the Saturday remand Court, the PC has to do two photocopies of the file and five copies of the oik’s previous convictions, as there are no clerical staff in at the weekend to do this.
Of course, because it’s the weekend, the photocopier the PC would usually use is out of toner, so the PC spends 10 minutes playing “hunt the working photocopier”. Finally, the PC is done, only for them to have to turn out straight away to a fight in the town centre, because the Stag party’s been in the pub all afternoon, drinking the Two for One Stella that’s on offer…
Meanwhile, the phones in the control room are still ringing non stop, the jobs are stacking up on the dispatcher’s screens, and there are 6 PCs trying to do the work of 8. It’s getting busier.
Now there’s a serious two car accident, persons trapped…
…and a repeat domestic violence victim has called in; her partner’s broken her arm. Again…
…and a four year old child has gone missing on one of the local authority housing estates…
Still think the Police are doing “SOD ALL”…?
Dibble said:
Have you EVER had any dealings with me? Probably not. If I do "SOD ALL" about crime, can you please explain why a couple of weekends ago, when I should have worked 8am-4pm, I actually worked from 7.30am-8pm, 7.30am-10pm and 7.30am-8pm. Yes, I did get paid for the extra hours I worked, but it wasn't optional.
Aber Liebchen.... Mad Doc works silly hours sometimes. Und so do I - sometimes. Und am also Mama... ist 24/7 mit no remission for bestest und toppest behaviour.
Youngest kitten wants feed und change ... has to be done - no matter if am middle of report for work (if doing the write up at home ) Do we get paid... Nein. ist expected .. but I guess appreciation ist reflected in other ways to us.
Dibble said:
I am now also responsible for 3-4 very new PCs, as their "supervisor", without any increase in pay/improvement in conditions. I have to make sure that they know what they are doing, as well as checking that the paperwork provided to us is up to scratch before the prisoners are dealt with, so I am all but supervising other officers too.
Ist a responsibility. Am sure they will reward you eventually - promotion beckons for you. You are good cop. But also ist hard work revising - nicht?
Dibble said:
I have also lost out on the Special Priority Payment of £1,200 a year, and have had to shell out about £1,000 from my own pocket to buy suits etc.
Ist a killer. They expect me to look nice und smart for conferences, seminars und so on. Rest of time - i have to wear a throwaway overall which covers me head to toe. Und I have to fund that from budget.
Dibble said:
My choice, I know, but please don't presume to sit safely behind your keyboard and monitor, and try to tell me I am doing "SOD ALL".
Or perhaps you think you "Middle Engalnders" could do things like this and not get fed up with people whingeing incessantly.
You would not like to do what mad Doc does or even touch the things I touch - Liebchen.
(Und ist not just pooed-up smelly nappies from youngest kitten - ist the germ cultures und stuff I play with too. 
) Und then there are the teachers in the whiteboard und power point jungles out there..trying to discipline these yobs without the threats of cells und handcuffs
Und they want policemen to come if under attack too. Ist a case of wanting to see a result und a real criminal locked up - but ist not helped at all by silly CPS und even sillier magistrates und judges who undermine everything you do und undermine society at the very same time by not supporting you und chucking away the keys.
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