Bugger...

[daveyctvr]

regarding the truvelo on the coast road there is a solid white line painted across the road in front of the camera id say about 5 metres in front (thats a guess by the way) and i have just looked on the pepipoo website at a truvelo pic and the pic is taken when the cars front wheels were on the line, because something that intrests me is how far away do these cameras zap you obviously if you cross that white line over the limit i presume uve had it, what is this line for? and if you managed to slow down to the limit before the camera, say 100 yards or even 50 are you in the clear? someone must have a clue

[daveyctvr]

Adom said:

I apologise in advance for the blatant ranting that will now follow, please avert your browser should you be allergic to angry whinging. I am 95% certain I was Truvelo’d yesterday afternoon. Not in an unfamiliar area, but on the main road approx three quarters of a mile from my front door. Dual carriageway heading eastbound from Newcastle (Coast Road), in a 50 mph limit, a camera that I must drive past at least five times per week. Chatting to client sitting next to me, not really thinking about my speed but certainly not pressing on (client is not the sort to be upset by unruly driving), then as I pass the camera, suddenly realise I have forgotten about it, look down and see I am doing approx 65mph. Bugger!! Ten seconds lapse in concentration is all it takes to get done by one of these little b**tards, all my good work (35k pa with lots in unfamiliar towns/cities), wiped out in an instant. I am naturally seething with myself for letting it happen, but the more I think about it, there is absolutely no reason for the limit in that section of road to be anything less than NSL, and certainly no ‘safety’ reason for this camera to be placed 250 metres before it changes to NSL!!! This is not a safety issue. To my mind, the police can piss off. If they ever need anything from me they can whistle. I now fully expect flaming from the resident coppers on here telling me that ‘I would expect them to help me though wouldn’t I’, and yes I totally agree, my response is pretty unreasonable, but to be honest, I am very angry and probably a little irrational at the moment, but positioning a camera where that one is and having such an inappropriate speed limit is also unreasonable. 65-70 mph in that area is perfectly safe, I was driving at a very moderate pace and that was the speed that felt appropriate in that area, so its not me that was driving too fast but the stupid arbitrary speed limit set too low by some useless tt of a bureaucrat. Unfortunately however, it is the Police who enforce these things, (via safety camera partnerships, well I think so anyway), and I want to let the Police know that prosecuting drivers for arbitrary traffic offences does significant harm to relations with the general public, as I have the (probably totally ill-conceived) idea that if enough of the public take this view then it may filter up to the Police chiefs so they can explain to MPs that they can’t do their job because the public they need to assist with policing, think they are a bunch of tts, and who keep telling them to piss off all the time. Does anyone at all recognise this?? Any of the policemen frequenting this forum, do you see evidence of this at all, or is it just me, 'Irate from Newcastle' who this pisses off?? Finally, I like coppers, one of my best mates is a copper, and on speaking to him, he says that this whole bloody obsession with speeding is complete shite, and will ultimately cause problems for the police when trying to do their job. The sooner the better for mine. Now, I anticipate much criticism for this post, however I warn you that I will simply stand back, probably agree with you, and blame these (ill-judged) views, all on the enormous anger and sense of injustice I currently feel, much like people with hangovers blame alcohol after making complete tits of themselves the night before....... all this and I don’t even know for sure whether I have been done yet…… Edited to tone down anger-induced swearing - apologies. >> Edited by Adom on Thursday 2nd June 18:07

this is quoted from 'the drivers srvival handbook'
truvelo systems are characterised by three evenly spaced rubber strips that span the entire road..truvelo traps can take readings on both sides of the road..sometimes the strips are buried in the road and can also be identified by a small grey box situated on the side of the road..the truvelo system works by measuring the time it takes to compress the strips taking two readings and using the average time of compression to calculate the speed,as the vehicle passes over the 1st strip the system sets into action recording the time as the axle passes over to the 3rd and final strip,the process is repeated as the vehicles rear axle passes by, and from this the speed is calculated....
i have a few questions regarding the coast road truvelos then.. i never seen them dig up the road to install strips, or is that what that white line is? i think they are actually 3 lines paralell to one another about 1cm apart i thought the strips were something like metres apart,cant recall seeing a grey box and if that white line is in fact the 3 strips then if you get your speed down before you pass the them then your ok so really u can do 200mph approaching a truvelo as long as you go over the 3 strips at the limit you should be ok but i wouldnt risk it the picture of a driver caught by a truvelo is on the pepipoo site somewhere hoep this helps a few peopel and settle some nerves

[streaky]

daveyctvr said:

this is quoted from 'the drivers srvival handbook' truvelo systems are characterised by three evenly spaced rubber strips that span the entire road..truvelo traps can take readings on both sides of the road..sometimes the strips are buried in the road and can also be identified by a small grey box situated on the side of the road..the truvelo system works by measuring the time it takes to compress the strips taking two readings and using the average time of compression to calculate the speed,as the vehicle passes over the 1st strip the system sets into action recording the time as the axle passes over to the 3rd and final strip,the process is repeated as the vehicles rear axle passes by, and from this the speed is calculated.

There appears to be some confusion here, and your source is incorrect. The Truvelo system uses two independent pairs (so four in all) of piezo-electric strips (inductive loops) that are a known distance apart. The "three strips" (either buried or on the surface) and "grey post" are characteristic of the DS2/TSS system - Streaky

[mojocvh]

Dibble said:

tonker I didn't say I disagreed with the public's perception of crime and "lack" of Police action. I'd even agree that there are many otherwise law abiding members of the public who now see "the Police" as "the Enemy". I do take exception to the more personal insults on here; perhaps I shouldn't, because I don't think I've ever met a PHer while I've been at work, so the complaints can't be aimed at me directly, can they? I do accept that the public feel they get a very poor service from the Police, but a lot of the time, I don't think that complaint is fair. It's always the front-line, operational officers that get it in the neck. They have to put up with being moaned at by both ends - the public and the bosses. You may have seen the news reports about the two young lads going in to the sea at Blackpool last weekend, and unfortunately drowning (although to date only one body has been recovered). That incident tied up a large majority of the officers in the busiest sector of the division for at least 36 hours – on a busy Bank Holiday weekend. Now if you’ve been burgled out in the suburbs during those 36 hours, you, quite rightly, want a quick response from the Police. But you went out shopping at 9am that morning, and it’s now 3pm. The burglar is long gone. The PC who is sent to you has a number of his or her own enquiries already. The team of 8 he or she works on is carrying (long term) two or three vacancies, which never seem to be filled. The PC has 12 months’ service in, and was tutored by a colleague who only has 2 years’ service. The irate householder’s opening words are “What took you two days to get here?” The PC has just started work, and has turned straight out to go and take details of the burglary. Now they’re getting it in the neck from the victim. So they do the house-to-house, fill in the burglary pack, ring the crime bureau for a crime number (but can’t get through, because they’re understaffed too, so they write out the crime book and fax it through), arrange for SOCO to turn up. No-one else is doing the officer’s other jobs for them. Meanwhile, the radio is going – constantly. They end up arresting a known juvenile shoplifter – a repeat offender – because the store security hasn’t turfed the little oik out of the store. Security watch the oik nick the CD, and then detain them. The Panda driver then arrests the oik. A van is called for, but there’s already a queue to book prisoners into custody, so there are no vans clear. 30 minutes later, a van arrives. The oik is taken to custody, but there’s another hour’s wait to book him in. The oik’s parents refuse to come down for interview, so the PC has to arrange for Social Services, and the oik’s solicitor. Time’s getting on, and the radio’s still going. The PC goes back out and takes the two witness statements from the store – one from the Security guard who witnessed the theft, and one from the store manager as the aggrieved party. The PC gets the security guard to fill in the “retention of stolen property” form, and then checks and seizes the store CCTV tape, then books it into the evidence related property system. Eventually the little oik is interviewed, with the social worker and solicitor present. He denies the offence, despite it being captured on CCTV. The parents aren’t willing to have him back, and social services can’t accommodate him, so he’ll have to be remanded in Police custody of charged. It’s “out of hours” now, so the PC has to write up another form, transcribe the interview, and phone CPS Direct for advice, and fax all the paperwork through to them. He also gets a print of the oik’s previous convictions to fax through with the statements and the transcript. The PC then has to sit with the phone in their hand while the CPS lawyer reads through the evidence and makes a charging decision. The CPS lawyer authorises a charge, so the PC goes back to the custody office. The PC has to wait another 40 minutes until they get to the head of the queue of people waiting to speak to the custody officer (who has already been at work ten hours, and has 26 other people in custody to worry about). The charges are prepared, the oik is charged, and the PC then goes and does the file. They write up their statement, copy the CCTV, print out copies of the incident log and the crime report (that they’ve also had to update to “detected”) – assuming they can find a computer that works that’s linked to a printer that works. Then because the oik will be appearing before the Saturday remand Court, the PC has to do two photocopies of the file and five copies of the oik’s previous convictions, as there are no clerical staff in at the weekend to do this. Of course, because it’s the weekend, the photocopier the PC would usually use is out of toner, so the PC spends 10 minutes playing “hunt the working photocopier”. Finally, the PC is done, only for them to have to turn out straight away to a fight in the town centre, because the Stag party’s been in the pub all afternoon, drinking the Two for One Stella that’s on offer… Meanwhile, the phones in the control room are still ringing non stop, the jobs are stacking up on the dispatcher’s screens, and there are 6 PCs trying to do the work of 8. It’s getting busier. Now there’s a serious two car accident, persons trapped… …and a repeat domestic violence victim has called in; her partner’s broken her arm. Again… …and a four year old child has gone missing on one of the local authority housing estates… Still think the Police are doing “SOD ALL”…?

Pity this post can't be stuck on the top of the SPL as a stickie with the title

Still think the Police are doing “SOD ALL”…?


cheers

MoJo

[havoc]

Dibble,

My post was not aimed at individuals, although I acknowledge it could have been read as such.

I am FIRMLY of the opinion the police are badly under-resourced and the scum in this country know it.

So when I see £millions being ploughed into Speed Cameras in EVERY county (bar one), and a proposed £3bn+ into some half-baked (and currently badly flawed) ID card scheme, I lose faith in those running this country, and in those in charge of the police. Such a mis-guided waste of resources all just to empire-build by egotistical over-educated and under-common-sensed "public servants" [spit in disgust smiley] is an insult to all decent people in this country, and goes quite some way to exemplify why this country is rapidly going down the tubes while good coppers are stuck doing paperwork or nursing chav scumbags, rather than giving us public the service we are all desperately crying out for.

Solution 1: Take EVERY SCP employee salary and every £ aimed at SCPs and cameras. Reinvest in the following proportion:
33% Trafpol ON the roads
33% bobbies on the beat
33% "cheaper" support officers - lesser trained individuals station bound to perform all these nursemaid and admin activities.

Solution 2: Scrap this abortion of an ID card scheme. Plough all £3bn into public services, most notably Police and Health.

Solution 3: Ask the public to all "voluntarily" contribute the £93 ID card fee into a one-off pot for combating crime, terrorism, etc.

[daveyctvr]

streaky said:

daveyctvr said: this is quoted from 'the drivers srvival handbook' truvelo systems are characterised by three evenly spaced rubber strips that span the entire road..truvelo traps can take readings on both sides of the road..sometimes the strips are buried in the road and can also be identified by a small grey box situated on the side of the road..the truvelo system works by measuring the time it takes to compress the strips taking two readings and using the average time of compression to calculate the speed,as the vehicle passes over the 1st strip the system sets into action recording the time as the axle passes over to the 3rd and final strip,the process is repeated as the vehicles rear axle passes by, and from this the speed is calculated. There appears to be some confusion here, and your source is incorrect. The Truvelo system uses two independent pairs (so four in all) of piezo-electric strips (inductive loops) that are a known distance apart. The "three strips" (either buried or on the surface) and "grey post" are characteristic of the DS2/TSS system - Streaky

thanks for that just in the introduction it reads 'this book has been prepared by experts with extensive knowledge of motoring law, including a retired police officer who has had 22 years experience of dealing with all aspects of motoring law' it was printed in 2004 so relatively up to date the title is 'the drivers survival handbook' by martin thwaite, so what your saying is that there are 2 types of truvelo then? i went and examined the very truvelo last night there is a grey box and 3 white strips across the road, the strips are about 4 metres in front of the camera, am i still correct in thinking your ok flying up to the thing as long as you pass the strips within the limit it wont trigger off? if this is teh case it will settle a few nerves on this forum of 'will i, wont i get that nip'
regards daveyctvr

[Adom]

I expected the comments regarding my not fully concentrating and that this could well have led to carnage on the roads, and yes, in a lot of instances they would be valid, however its like everything in life in that its not that simple. I believe that I concentrate a lot more than most drivers when on the road (although I'm sure you would expect me to say this), however I also believe that driving does not require 100% concentration 100% of the time. I think this would be unrealistic to suggest and anyone who claims they do so, is surely deluded. Clearly some situations require more concentration than others, driving past a school at kicking out time while children are almost spilling off the pavement into the road, requires full concentration, a slow speed (and ideally a hovering left foot over the brake), whereas others such as driving on a dual carriageway with no conceivable way for a pedestrian to cross and periphery vision clocking whether a car or other large obstacle is stopped in the road, do not require full attention.

The camera is situated in a position that reflects the latter of those two descriptions, and yes, I may not have been fully concentrating at that point, but then again I would assert that 100% was not required. On a personal level what gets me is this; I wasn’t causing danger to anyone, the sequence of events that would have to occur for me to kill anyone other than myself in that situation would be pretty remarkable, and would probably apply if I was doing 50mph. Yet given I do 35k miles pa, it is quite conceivable I could be flashed again on three further occasions (currently have a clean licence), at which point I would be deemed too dangerous to be let loose on the road, and banned from driving. This would be plainly ridiculous and unreasonably harsh. I think someone earlier said that 10-15 years ago if you got 12 points you probably sped with enough regularity and severity that you deserved to get banned, nowadays it is a very real possibility for anyone who does hefty mileages.

On the subject of general policing, I think the officers on the ground do a great job, as I said before, a good friend of mine is a copper and I know he does a fantastic job in difficult conditions (west end of Newcastle!). I think what grates on people (me anyway), is that the Police (partnerships etc.) appear to pay lip service for burglaries etc, whilst targeting motorists with such enthusiasm for minor transgressions of arbitrary traffic regulations. This may not be factually correct, but it is certainly the perception, and that probably causes almost as much damage to relations.

When it comes down to it, on serious matters I would of course provide whatever assistance to the Police that I could, I suppose I just want to register my protest in the futile hope that it might add to the voice of dissatisfaction with current policy (which I don’t believe aids anyone, other than by lining Gordy’s pockets with yet more of our hard earned cash), and ultimately lead to the abandonment of this misguided obsession with speed.

Dave - I'm pretty sure that as long as you're within the limit by the time you cross the three white lines you're ok.

[havoc]

Adom said:

...other than by lining Gordy’s pockets with yet more of our hard earned cash...

But does it that much?!? From what I'd heard, these SCP's have to hand back to the government any profit they make, so they've built their empires up as big as they can to ensure there is only a nominal profit.

Yet another example of empire-building by unelected "civil" servants.

The HitchHikers Guide to the Galaxy said:

...a bunch of mindless jerks who'll be first against the wall when the revolution comes.

[Adom]

gone said:

Adom said: all this and I don’t even know for sure whether I have been done yet…… 15 days will no doubt give you the answer!

Well, its been 15 days now and nothing through the post as yet. Is this timeframe pretty reliable or should I still be anticipating a NIP dropping through the door any day now??

[havoc]

Knowing Royal Mail, give it until Monday to be comfortable.

Even then, if it's got lost in the post they CAN still pursue it...the law's on their side, remember!

[mybrainhurts]

No-one expects the Spanish Inquisition......