parking invoice & now court summons
Discussion
Stay in Bed Instead said:
No.
The best way forward is for motorists not to park anywhere there is not express permission to do so. The car park of an old folks home does not.
I don't recall many car parks having express permission to park there.The best way forward is for motorists not to park anywhere there is not express permission to do so. The car park of an old folks home does not.
However I do recall many car parks saying "private"
Also. Getting a parking ticket doesn't mean you are an inconsiderate parker. Many people get parking tickets for genuine mistakes, or for falling into a trap set by small print on an already small sign.
I got one for parking in a business park car park, when I was visiting a client based at the business park!
They had only just finished construction. My client was the first buisness to move in.
Businesses were allocated numbered bays. Eg 100-125. However this was not made clear to anyone.
I happened to park in a bay not assigned to a business as the lots hadn't sold or been rented yet.
Cue a small, sweaty masturbating man in a Peugeot Partner slapping a ticket on my car 11 minutes after I parked.
Now I'm not sure about you but if that isn't scamming to the highest order I don't know what is.
Edited by xjay1337 on Friday 25th October 08:57
Andy20vt said:
Kuji said:
Most of us ho through life never getting a ticket, because we don't park where we know we shouldn't.
So I have zero sympathy and ever less respect for any parasite who thinks the world revolves around them.
People like you are the problem and the parking companies are only here because of it.
Wow you certainly make a lot of assumptions don't you? So I have zero sympathy and ever less respect for any parasite who thinks the world revolves around them.
People like you are the problem and the parking companies are only here because of it.
You are wrong, parking companies only exist because its an easy way to extort a large quantity of money from motorists who are too naive, vulnerable, time poor or timid to fight back. Many of the parking companies were set up by the sort of bullying thugs who used to be clampers, once private clamping became illegal.
Parking companies actively recruit land and car park owners rather than the other way round. I've lost count of the number of unsolicited letters/emails our company has received from these firms offering to manage our firm's car park. Some even offer to cut us a share of the profits.
Once upon a time there were no parking companies as people had no need for them.
They only exist now, because a market was created for them to fill. The market being idiot parking.
Kuji said:
But what the alternative?
How do you stop all the self entitled idiots from using private land when they know they shouldn't but do anyway.
How do you ensure that the 99.9% of honest people don't have to pay for something they didn't cause and had zero involvement with?
You must have a solution? Surely
Sue for trespass which would be a lot more than the £100 for breach of contract. I just posted the same above. Its already available and has been for a large number of years.How do you stop all the self entitled idiots from using private land when they know they shouldn't but do anyway.
How do you ensure that the 99.9% of honest people don't have to pay for something they didn't cause and had zero involvement with?
You must have a solution? Surely
Stay in Bed Instead said:
No.
The best way forward is for motorists not to park anywhere there is not express permission to do so. The car park of an old folks home does not.
And if people do there is redress for their actions and the actual landowner sees the benefit. Not some random company.The best way forward is for motorists not to park anywhere there is not express permission to do so. The car park of an old folks home does not.
Once it gets round someone has gone to court for trespassing it will soon stop.
If there is the insistence that PPCs operate then regulate them and bring them in line with local authorities penalties. Have a proper appeals service not funded by the PPCs themselves with conflicts of interest such as IAS/IPC etc
Stay in Bed Instead said:
Wrong. You can only claim for losses using trespass. Which is why nobody bothers.
So that applies in every instance?Edit: You do realise that to sue for damages for trespass there is no requirement to provide evidence of loss?
Edited by pavarotti1980 on Friday 25th October 09:03
Kuji said:
But what the alternative?
How do you stop all the self entitled idiots from using private land when they know they shouldn't but do anyway.
How do you ensure that the 99.9% of honest people don't have to pay for something they didn't cause and had zero involvement with?
You must have a solution? Surely
Perhaps a simple barrier or low cost chain at the entrance? Perhaps lockable or remote bollards? Perhaps an obvious sign explaining that it's 'residents only' - the OP would have responded to this surely? Perhaps if you have an empty bit of land that people are parking on then do something with that land - use it so that it's not available for parking? Perhaps a pay on exit car park rather than guess the time you'll need car park. Perhaps a stricter code of conduct for the car parking companies to operate by - thereby making them operate in an ethical manner meaning people would actually respect them? Perhaps much better council provision for parking generally. These should solve all but the most hardcore of PLAC cases. How do you stop all the self entitled idiots from using private land when they know they shouldn't but do anyway.
How do you ensure that the 99.9% of honest people don't have to pay for something they didn't cause and had zero involvement with?
You must have a solution? Surely
Stay in Bed Instead said:
I appreciate you think that if it doesn't state private you think it is fair game.
Reasonable motorists do not agree with you.
You mean a small number of people on this thread ?Reasonable motorists do not agree with you.
Parking in a built up area for example, on the road against a curb.
Does this specifically invite you to park? Or do you just park?
Many marked bays in town centres are not always explicitly marked as "welcome to park here".... they are just parking spots. So you park there.
If a car park does is not for normal members of the public to use, it would say private or have other signage etc.
I really can't understand how you find that notion so offensive.
Kuji said:
Andy20vt said:
Kuji said:
Most of us ho through life never getting a ticket, because we don't park where we know we shouldn't.
So I have zero sympathy and ever less respect for any parasite who thinks the world revolves around them.
People like you are the problem and the parking companies are only here because of it.
Wow you certainly make a lot of assumptions don't you? So I have zero sympathy and ever less respect for any parasite who thinks the world revolves around them.
People like you are the problem and the parking companies are only here because of it.
You are wrong, parking companies only exist because its an easy way to extort a large quantity of money from motorists who are too naive, vulnerable, time poor or timid to fight back. Many of the parking companies were set up by the sort of bullying thugs who used to be clampers, once private clamping became illegal.
Parking companies actively recruit land and car park owners rather than the other way round. I've lost count of the number of unsolicited letters/emails our company has received from these firms offering to manage our firm's car park. Some even offer to cut us a share of the profits.
Once upon a time there were no parking companies as people had no need for them.
They only exist now, because a market was created for them to fill. The market being idiot parking.
Most people who get ticketed by these firms do so because of only a minor mistake or minor transgression (e.g. '0' rather than 'O' entered on a keypad, overstay of just a few minutes, slightly touching a white line in a car park bay that is too small in any case, etc, etc) - not because they have PLAC. Many people who get ticketed do so because of an error made by the parking company themselves.
Kuji said:
xjay1337 said:
Kuji said:
Well done for being a total prick.
You are always so nice to me on this forum.It's nice to have such kind members on here.
(Big words for a man behind a keyboard)
You seem to like to make pot shots at me. You are acting like a child
If you have a problem with me, which it seems you do, PM me. We can discuss it privately.
If you don't PM, and I suspect you won't, then if you wish to engage with me I would suggest you refrain from insulting me any further. I have not insulted you.
xjay1337 said:
You mean a small number of people on this thread ?
Parking in a built up area for example, on the road against a curb.
Does this specifically invite you to park? Or do you just park?
Many marked bays in town centres are not always explicitly marked as "welcome to park here".... they are just parking spots. So you park there.
If a car park does is not for normal members of the public to use, it would say private or have other signage etc.
I really can't understand how you find that notion so offensive.
Are you seriously trying to argue legislated public highway parking as a basis for parking on private property without permission?Parking in a built up area for example, on the road against a curb.
Does this specifically invite you to park? Or do you just park?
Many marked bays in town centres are not always explicitly marked as "welcome to park here".... they are just parking spots. So you park there.
If a car park does is not for normal members of the public to use, it would say private or have other signage etc.
I really can't understand how you find that notion so offensive.
Do you have any signs on your home stating private property, or do you expect the public to appreciate and respect that?
Stay in Bed Instead said:
Andy20vt said:
Okay great, can you answer the following:
Do you agree with and condone the normally dodgy practices employed by these parking companies to collect their revenue (misleading signage, no grace period, ghost ticketing, doctoring of photographs, misuse and/or inaccuracies related to ANPR data, premature threats of CCJ/Bailiffs, etc, etc?
Do you agree that if the parking company's continually fail to adhere to the laws regarding POFA 2012 and Data Protection then that's okay?
Are you aware that motorists have no right to a fair appeal even if the ticket was issued in error (POPLA and IAS are not impartial - they are both funded by and hence unduly influenced by the parking companies, particularly the IAS)? Is that okay in your book?
Do you work for a parking company or run a car park (in which case your opinion is probably heavily biased)?
You can bDo you agree with and condone the normally dodgy practices employed by these parking companies to collect their revenue (misleading signage, no grace period, ghost ticketing, doctoring of photographs, misuse and/or inaccuracies related to ANPR data, premature threats of CCJ/Bailiffs, etc, etc?
Do you agree that if the parking company's continually fail to adhere to the laws regarding POFA 2012 and Data Protection then that's okay?
Are you aware that motorists have no right to a fair appeal even if the ticket was issued in error (POPLA and IAS are not impartial - they are both funded by and hence unduly influenced by the parking companies, particularly the IAS)? Is that okay in your book?
Do you work for a parking company or run a car park (in which case your opinion is probably heavily biased)?
h all you like about the conduct of PPC's. It does not negate the actions of some people that think they can park in a private car park without authorisation. As what this thread is about.Yes, I have a private car park. I bet you don't.
We have a small private car park at work (24 spaces), near a city center too and we never have a problem un-authorised parking. That's because we have installed a simple remote fob barrier. Easy to use and no need to recruit some ex-clampers with a criminal record to manage it for us. Yet we still get regular letters offering to manage our car park from one rogue parking firm or another, often as part of a profit share scheme.
Andy20vt said:
Where have I claimed that the OP was right to park in that space? I haven't, I think we're having a separate discussion, yet regardless of where the OP parked the behavior shown by these private parking companies is abhorrent, often illegal, way over the top and downright unscrupulous. Yet you seem to be perfectly happy to turn a blind eye to this so long as your car park is okay? And you accuse motorists of being selfish?
We have a small private car park at work (24 spaces), near a city center too and we never have a problem un-authorised parking. That's because we have installed a simple remote fob barrier. Easy to use and no need to recruit some ex-clampers with a criminal record to manage it for us. Yet we still get regular letters offering to manage our car park from one rogue parking firm or another, often as part of a profit share scheme.
How would a PPC obtain evidence of parking on private property if the alleged transgressor was never there?We have a small private car park at work (24 spaces), near a city center too and we never have a problem un-authorised parking. That's because we have installed a simple remote fob barrier. Easy to use and no need to recruit some ex-clampers with a criminal record to manage it for us. Yet we still get regular letters offering to manage our car park from one rogue parking firm or another, often as part of a profit share scheme.
Not all private car parks can install barriers.
Stay in Bed Instead said:
Are you seriously trying to argue legislated public highway parking as a basis for parking on private property without permission?
Do you have any signs on your home stating private property, or do you expect the public to appreciate and respect that?
I haven't seen the car park the OP parked in. Do you have any signs on your home stating private property, or do you expect the public to appreciate and respect that?
But I am assuming it's a small access road with parking.
Maybe it's obviously parking for old peoples home only.
Maybe it's not obvious. As I said, I'm siding with the OP unless proven otherwise.
A driveway is obviously not a parking spot.
However some communal car parks can be significantly less obvious.
Stay in Bed Instead said:
Andy20vt said:
Where have I claimed that the OP was right to park in that space? I haven't, I think we're having a separate discussion, yet regardless of where the OP parked the behavior shown by these private parking companies is abhorrent, often illegal, way over the top and downright unscrupulous. Yet you seem to be perfectly happy to turn a blind eye to this so long as your car park is okay? And you accuse motorists of being selfish?
We have a small private car park at work (24 spaces), near a city center too and we never have a problem un-authorised parking. That's because we have installed a simple remote fob barrier. Easy to use and no need to recruit some ex-clampers with a criminal record to manage it for us. Yet we still get regular letters offering to manage our car park from one rogue parking firm or another, often as part of a profit share scheme.
How would a PPC obtain evidence of parking on private property if the alleged transgressor was never there?We have a small private car park at work (24 spaces), near a city center too and we never have a problem un-authorised parking. That's because we have installed a simple remote fob barrier. Easy to use and no need to recruit some ex-clampers with a criminal record to manage it for us. Yet we still get regular letters offering to manage our car park from one rogue parking firm or another, often as part of a profit share scheme.
Not all private car parks can install barriers.
Not all private car parks choose to install barriers to solve the problem - after all how would you be able to make money out of motorists if you prevented the problem in the first place?
Traveled to Europe last year and most car parks we saw were free without any of this UK hassle and stress. Seemed to work just fine over there.
Andy20vt said:
Double dip ANPR, doctoring time stamps on photo evidence, not allowing the required grace period, ticketing people who have entered a car park to find a space yet not parked, etc, etc. These are proven tactics and have happened over and over again.
Not all private car parks choose to install barriers to solve the problem - after all how would you be able to make money out of motorists if you prevented the problem in the first place?
Traveled to Europe last year and most car parks we saw were free without any of this UK hassle and stress. Seemed to work just fine over there.
I'm not claiming the PPC's are perfect. I am claiming those that park on private property without permission deserve all they get. The vast majority of motorists have never incurred any issues with PPC's.Not all private car parks choose to install barriers to solve the problem - after all how would you be able to make money out of motorists if you prevented the problem in the first place?
Traveled to Europe last year and most car parks we saw were free without any of this UK hassle and stress. Seemed to work just fine over there.
Maybe european motorists are just more considerate than UK ones?
Stay in Bed Instead said:
Andy20vt said:
Double dip ANPR, doctoring time stamps on photo evidence, not allowing the required grace period, ticketing people who have entered a car park to find a space yet not parked, etc, etc. These are proven tactics and have happened over and over again.
Not all private car parks choose to install barriers to solve the problem - after all how would you be able to make money out of motorists if you prevented the problem in the first place?
Traveled to Europe last year and most car parks we saw were free without any of this UK hassle and stress. Seemed to work just fine over there.
I'm not claiming the PPC's are perfect. I am claiming those that park on private property without permission deserve all they get. The vast majority of motorists have never incurred any issues with PPC's.Not all private car parks choose to install barriers to solve the problem - after all how would you be able to make money out of motorists if you prevented the problem in the first place?
Traveled to Europe last year and most car parks we saw were free without any of this UK hassle and stress. Seemed to work just fine over there.
https://www.driving.co.uk/news/parking-wardens-doc...
and this:
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/nov/10/park...
and this (there are 1,000's more links I could share but I think you should get the picture):
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.ph...
are all completely fine, provided that your car park is okay, oh and so long as a the very tiny percentage of people who PLAC, and will continue to PLAC whatever measures are employed get a fine?
Sledgehammer and nut spring to mind!
Andy20vt said:
Okay so I get it now. You're saying you are completely fine with honest motorists having to put up with this sort of thing:
https://www.driving.co.uk/news/parking-wardens-doc...
and this:
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/nov/10/park...
and this (there are 1,000's more links I could share but I think you should get the picture):
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.ph...
are all completely fine, provided that your car park is okay, oh and so long as a the very tiny percentage of people who PLAC, and will continue to PLAC whatever measures are employed get a fine?
Sledgehammer and nut spring to mind!
I stated they are not perfect. I didn't state I condoned that imperfection.https://www.driving.co.uk/news/parking-wardens-doc...
and this:
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/nov/10/park...
and this (there are 1,000's more links I could share but I think you should get the picture):
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.ph...
are all completely fine, provided that your car park is okay, oh and so long as a the very tiny percentage of people who PLAC, and will continue to PLAC whatever measures are employed get a fine?
Sledgehammer and nut spring to mind!
Regardless of the conduct of the PPC's. If you don't park on private property you have nothing to fear. And before you jump all over me, I am referring to the likes of the old folks home, not Sainsburys.
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