Driving Too Slowly Is Dangerous
Discussion
JimSuperSix said:
This just proves my point, the fact that you would refer to someone using the term retard just because they might be doing 25mph in a 30 shows just how impatient, intolerant and how prone to massive over-reaction many people are today.
Sorry but thier behaviour is retarded. What is the valid reason for driving the way they are? none. They know they are holding people up = inconsiderate behaviour. The road conditions are such they can speed up but still they dont = furthering inconsiderate behaviour. We arent talking about safety issues here - assuming modern car, not heavily overloaded etc. If the driver is not capable of driving faster then they shouldnt have a license.
A prime example last night, NSL single carriageway, making reasonable progress at 50mph behind a lorry. No problem with this - hes going as fast as he can do legally and reasonably in the conditions. We quickly catch up to some retard in a modern car doing 30-35mph. Road conditions would easily allow him to do doing 60 and if he was being a bit cautious at 50mph then fair enough. But 30-35? You are telling me that is reasonable and Im in the wrong for being annoyed with such individuals who are clearly driving in an inconsiderate way? (whatever they think might be a valid excuse).
And you wonder why i view such people with zero respect.
Psycho Warren said:
JimSuperSix said:
This just proves my point, the fact that you would refer to someone using the term retard just because they might be doing 25mph in a 30 shows just how impatient, intolerant and how prone to massive over-reaction many people are today.
Sorry but thier behaviour is retarded. What is the valid reason for driving the way they are? none. They know they are holding people up = inconsiderate behaviour. The road conditions are such they can speed up but still they dont = furthering inconsiderate behaviour. We arent talking about safety issues here - assuming modern car, not heavily overloaded etc. If the driver is not capable of driving faster then they shouldnt have a license.
A prime example last night, NSL single carriageway, making reasonable progress at 50mph behind a lorry. No problem with this - hes going as fast as he can do legally and reasonably in the conditions. We quickly catch up to some retard in a modern car doing 30-35mph. Road conditions would easily allow him to do doing 60 and if he was being a bit cautious at 50mph then fair enough. But 30-35? You are telling me that is reasonable and Im in the wrong for being annoyed with such individuals who are clearly driving in an inconsiderate way? (whatever they think might be a valid excuse).
And you wonder why i view such people with zero respect.
Are you incapable of safely overtaking someone who is doing 30 in a 60? Maybe they are travelling slowly for a reason that you don't know about? Maybe they are looking for somewhere, they have a headache, the car is making a strange noise, they are tired and doing their best to get home safely.
In general terms this is an amazingly inconsequential inconvenience. Deal with it like an adult.
JimSuperSix said:
Psycho Warren said:
JimSuperSix said:
This just proves my point, the fact that you would refer to someone using the term retard just because they might be doing 25mph in a 30 shows just how impatient, intolerant and how prone to massive over-reaction many people are today.
Sorry but thier behaviour is retarded. What is the valid reason for driving the way they are? none. They know they are holding people up = inconsiderate behaviour. The road conditions are such they can speed up but still they dont = furthering inconsiderate behaviour. We arent talking about safety issues here - assuming modern car, not heavily overloaded etc. If the driver is not capable of driving faster then they shouldnt have a license.
A prime example last night, NSL single carriageway, making reasonable progress at 50mph behind a lorry. No problem with this - hes going as fast as he can do legally and reasonably in the conditions. We quickly catch up to some retard in a modern car doing 30-35mph. Road conditions would easily allow him to do doing 60 and if he was being a bit cautious at 50mph then fair enough. But 30-35? You are telling me that is reasonable and Im in the wrong for being annoyed with such individuals who are clearly driving in an inconsiderate way? (whatever they think might be a valid excuse).
And you wonder why i view such people with zero respect.
Are you incapable of safely overtaking someone who is doing 30 in a 60? Maybe they are travelling slowly for a reason that you don't know about? Maybe they are looking for somewhere, they have a headache, the car is making a strange noise, they are tired and doing their best to get home safely.
In general terms this is an amazingly inconsequential inconvenience. Deal with it like an adult.
However way to deal with it, on the other hand, is to look for the safe overtake, if none can be found then apply some restraint and be patient, plus set off earlier next time. In other words, yes, behave like an adult.
Unfortunately I just know it's just a matter of time before encountering him travelling in the opposing direction, hopefully not alongside him will be the utter berk in his SVR V8 FFRR on the wrong side of the double whites over a brow, sadly another regular on that road.
The ones that annoy me are....scenario
3 lane carriageway, Trucks in L1 doing 56 (maybe), queue of MLMs in Lane 2 doing similar, one decides to overtake at 60 and off he goes into L3. Big queue builds up in L3 patiently waiting for each to overtake the middle lane train, and some guy thinks it ok to undertake up L3 at 70 and the squeeze in at the end. Even worse if it;s because some dozy sod has left a huge gap.
I know you can pass on the inside if your lane is moving faster, but the scenario above is stretching that a bit.
3 lane carriageway, Trucks in L1 doing 56 (maybe), queue of MLMs in Lane 2 doing similar, one decides to overtake at 60 and off he goes into L3. Big queue builds up in L3 patiently waiting for each to overtake the middle lane train, and some guy thinks it ok to undertake up L3 at 70 and the squeeze in at the end. Even worse if it;s because some dozy sod has left a huge gap.
I know you can pass on the inside if your lane is moving faster, but the scenario above is stretching that a bit.
worsy said:
The ones that annoy me are....scenario
3 lane carriageway, Trucks in L1 doing 56 (maybe), queue of MLMs in Lane 2 doing similar, one decides to overtake at 60 and off he goes into L3. Big queue builds up in L3 patiently waiting for each to overtake the middle lane train, and some guy thinks it ok to undertake up L3 at 70 and the squeeze in at the end. Even worse if it;s because some dozy sod has left a huge gap.
I know you can pass on the inside if your lane is moving faster, but the scenario above is stretching that a bit.
I really can't get worked up by other's journeys & how they perform on them.3 lane carriageway, Trucks in L1 doing 56 (maybe), queue of MLMs in Lane 2 doing similar, one decides to overtake at 60 and off he goes into L3. Big queue builds up in L3 patiently waiting for each to overtake the middle lane train, and some guy thinks it ok to undertake up L3 at 70 and the squeeze in at the end. Even worse if it;s because some dozy sod has left a huge gap.
I know you can pass on the inside if your lane is moving faster, but the scenario above is stretching that a bit.
I get to my destination when I get to my destination & invariably the prattish behaviour of individuals around me plays very little part in affecting that timing. The big things such as other people's accidents & volume of traffic do & there is little I can do to influence them.
It seems like a lot of drivers think that people who get ahead of them are somehow getting one over on them, yet they aren't even going to the same final destination. People are strange & their stress invariably is rooted in the emotional baggage & mindset they bring to the activity.
Don't sweat the little stuff & worry less about what others get up to.
JimSuperSix said:
So now it's 30 in a 60, but 50 would be ok? Previously they were a retard for 25 in a 30.
Are you incapable of safely overtaking someone who is doing 30 in a 60? Maybe they are travelling slowly for a reason that you don't know about? Maybe they are looking for somewhere, they have a headache, the car is making a strange noise, they are tired and doing their best to get home safely.
In general terms this is an amazingly inconsequential inconvenience. Deal with it like an adult.
looking for somewhere over the course of many miles? they should be paying full attention to driving not thier map or sat nav.Are you incapable of safely overtaking someone who is doing 30 in a 60? Maybe they are travelling slowly for a reason that you don't know about? Maybe they are looking for somewhere, they have a headache, the car is making a strange noise, they are tired and doing their best to get home safely.
In general terms this is an amazingly inconsequential inconvenience. Deal with it like an adult.
if they have a headache and cant drive to the speed limit then they are unfit to drive and should be off the road - same with tiredness.
thier car is making an odd noise then it shiuldnt be on the road.
so where is the reasonable valid excuse for thier actions? there isnt any.
and i shoudnt have to leave early and waste even more of my precious free time to take into account inconsiderate behaviour of others.
Psycho Warren said:
JimSuperSix said:
So now it's 30 in a 60, but 50 would be ok? Previously they were a retard for 25 in a 30.
Are you incapable of safely overtaking someone who is doing 30 in a 60? Maybe they are travelling slowly for a reason that you don't know about? Maybe they are looking for somewhere, they have a headache, the car is making a strange noise, they are tired and doing their best to get home safely.
In general terms this is an amazingly inconsequential inconvenience. Deal with it like an adult.
looking for somewhere over the course of many miles? they should be paying full attention to driving not thier map or sat nav.Are you incapable of safely overtaking someone who is doing 30 in a 60? Maybe they are travelling slowly for a reason that you don't know about? Maybe they are looking for somewhere, they have a headache, the car is making a strange noise, they are tired and doing their best to get home safely.
In general terms this is an amazingly inconsequential inconvenience. Deal with it like an adult.
if they have a headache and cant drive to the speed limit then they are unfit to drive and should be off the road - same with tiredness.
thier car is making an odd noise then it shiuldnt be on the road.
so where is the reasonable valid excuse for thier actions? there isnt any.
and i shoudnt have to leave early and waste even more of my precious free time to take into account inconsiderate behaviour of others.
You can't choose how other's drive, you can't force other's to drive to your values.
All you can choose is how you let it affect you & deal with it.
That is, you can choose to deal with it like an adult or you can sulk like a child & suffer stress symptoms.
vonhosen said:
Psycho Warren said:
JimSuperSix said:
So now it's 30 in a 60, but 50 would be ok? Previously they were a retard for 25 in a 30.
Are you incapable of safely overtaking someone who is doing 30 in a 60? Maybe they are travelling slowly for a reason that you don't know about? Maybe they are looking for somewhere, they have a headache, the car is making a strange noise, they are tired and doing their best to get home safely.
In general terms this is an amazingly inconsequential inconvenience. Deal with it like an adult.
looking for somewhere over the course of many miles? they should be paying full attention to driving not thier map or sat nav.Are you incapable of safely overtaking someone who is doing 30 in a 60? Maybe they are travelling slowly for a reason that you don't know about? Maybe they are looking for somewhere, they have a headache, the car is making a strange noise, they are tired and doing their best to get home safely.
In general terms this is an amazingly inconsequential inconvenience. Deal with it like an adult.
if they have a headache and cant drive to the speed limit then they are unfit to drive and should be off the road - same with tiredness.
thier car is making an odd noise then it shiuldnt be on the road.
so where is the reasonable valid excuse for thier actions? there isnt any.
and i shoudnt have to leave early and waste even more of my precious free time to take into account inconsiderate behaviour of others.
You can't choose how other's drive, you can't force other's to drive to your values.
All you can choose is how you let it affect you & deal with it.
That is, you can choose to deal with it like an adult or you can sulk like a child & suffer stress symptoms.
It's well and good saying that but far too many people drive far too slowly thus clogging up main roads and vehicles in the immediate vicinity of slow moving crap or just as bad for either driving far too close thus blocking visibility and or refusing to over take at all - creating a domino effect.
It's just piss poor driving overall, then you get psychos in vans, they either drive so fast they will take off or drive so slow and get infuriated when over taken and continue to trail a few mm behind your bumper for having the audacity to overtake the derv that they were driving in the first place.
Welcome to driving in England.
Edited by ericmcn on Thursday 31st October 10:05
My driving baptism wasn't by fire it was by passing my test and immediately commuting to Wembley from Reading via the M4, Chiswick Flyover, North Circular and Harrow Road; in 1978, in a Mini. I tended to stay in the nearside lane at about 60. Driving home one night in November it was dark and wet and I had just entered the unlit section west of Maidenhead. Some distance ahead were the tail lights of something I was catching. I checked my mirrors, indicated, glanced over my shoulder, looked back and I was right on top of an AC Invacar; a very narrow, old fashioned invalid carriage. Two feeble lights close together had looked to my inexperienced eye like a bigger vehicle further away. (Yes, I know. Small. Far away.) Swerving is never a good idea but I had just checked it was clear.
Makes my blood run cold even now.
The invalid carriage was on the road illegally but a collision would have been my fault.
Makes my blood run cold even now.
The invalid carriage was on the road illegally but a collision would have been my fault.
ericmcn said:
vonhosen said:
Psycho Warren said:
JimSuperSix said:
So now it's 30 in a 60, but 50 would be ok? Previously they were a retard for 25 in a 30.
Are you incapable of safely overtaking someone who is doing 30 in a 60? Maybe they are travelling slowly for a reason that you don't know about? Maybe they are looking for somewhere, they have a headache, the car is making a strange noise, they are tired and doing their best to get home safely.
In general terms this is an amazingly inconsequential inconvenience. Deal with it like an adult.
looking for somewhere over the course of many miles? they should be paying full attention to driving not thier map or sat nav.Are you incapable of safely overtaking someone who is doing 30 in a 60? Maybe they are travelling slowly for a reason that you don't know about? Maybe they are looking for somewhere, they have a headache, the car is making a strange noise, they are tired and doing their best to get home safely.
In general terms this is an amazingly inconsequential inconvenience. Deal with it like an adult.
if they have a headache and cant drive to the speed limit then they are unfit to drive and should be off the road - same with tiredness.
thier car is making an odd noise then it shiuldnt be on the road.
so where is the reasonable valid excuse for thier actions? there isnt any.
and i shoudnt have to leave early and waste even more of my precious free time to take into account inconsiderate behaviour of others.
You can't choose how other's drive, you can't force other's to drive to your values.
All you can choose is how you let it affect you & deal with it.
That is, you can choose to deal with it like an adult or you can sulk like a child & suffer stress symptoms.
The point is there's no need or point in sulking or getting stressed about it.
ericmcn said:
It's well and good saying that but far too many people drive far too slowly thus clogging up main roads and vehicles in the immediate vicinity of slow moving crap or just as bad for either driving far too close thus blocking visibility and or refusing to over take at all - creating a domino effect.
It's just piss poor driving overall, then you get psychos in vans, they either drive do fast they will take off or drive so slow and get infuriated when over taken and continue to trail a few mm behind your bumper for having the audacity to overtake the derv that they were driving in the first place.
Welcome to driving in England.
And I drive all over the UK with my work & it don't find dealing with all this problematic. Like I said Satnav tells me how long it should take for the journey before I start & it pretty much takes that time, save for other's accidents etc that happen after I've already left. It's just piss poor driving overall, then you get psychos in vans, they either drive do fast they will take off or drive so slow and get infuriated when over taken and continue to trail a few mm behind your bumper for having the audacity to overtake the derv that they were driving in the first place.
Welcome to driving in England.
Individuals driving around me aren't adding to that time greatly or causing me stress with their driving choices (because I'm not interested enough in what they do to get wound up by it). You can take control of your emotional response by reframing how you view the activity, or you can continue to let it take hold over you. You do have a choice. If you don't like what's happening change what you can influence & exert control over, rather than sulking about what you can't exert control over & will also probably make you ill in the process.
At risk of turning this into a bikes vs cars thread, which is not my intention: I'm amazed that more people don't decide to get a motorbike with which they can just overtake these dawdlers with ease. Unless you have stuff or passengers to carry of course, it seems like a no-brainer to me (no pun intended – yes they are dangerous but the stats are skewed by weekend warriors on hypersports bikes); but then I have been riding for seventeen years so it's easy for me to say, I suppose. I use the bike over the car 95% or more of the time, and on the occasions when I do a journey on A-roads in the car I'm reminded how miserable the experience is with the roads as congested as they are at the moment, and I feel for those who would love to make progress (not in a piss-taking way, just reasonable progress at the NSL) but can't. Even in a very quick car the overtaking opportunites are far fewer because of its size vs a bike.
If more people were on two wheels, not only would overtaking be easier for the people on two wheels but there'd be fewer four-wheelers creating this congestion! Give it a go, people! What's the alternative? Rising blood pressure as you wait behind yet another 45 mph-er on your A-road journey? Or just give in and accept that you're part of a stream and save the enjoyment for the odd isolated few minutes when you're lucky enough to have no one dawdling along in front of you?
I have to say, on the rare but therefore noticeable occasions when I encounter someone in a car when I'm on the bike who is driving what I consider to be beautifully on a NSL A- or B-road (neither dawdling nor rushing, no needless braking, acting courteously when encountering other users, anticipating hazards calmly and appropriately, etc.), I feel like waiting till I can pull up next to them and tapping on their window and saying, 'Can I just say, thank you, and congratulations – why can't everyone drive like you?'...but of course I'd come across as a mentalist hahaha.
The other problem is that it is a vicious circle with people who are nervous on NSL roads: every time they're overtaken by someone who wants to drive decently, it presumably reinforces their fear and sense that everyone's going too fast and that they are right to be pottering along. Yes, it would be lovely if we could just be accommodating and think 'people can drive however slowly they like', but *everyone* is aware of how congested the roads are and should realise that a car is not a lone agent but rather part of a stream, on the vast majority of even vaguely major routes, and therefore if you decide to drive 10 or 15 mph under the perfectly adequate limit then you are therefore forcing everyone else behind you to do so as well, which cannot be anything other than selfish and inconsiderate.
If more people were on two wheels, not only would overtaking be easier for the people on two wheels but there'd be fewer four-wheelers creating this congestion! Give it a go, people! What's the alternative? Rising blood pressure as you wait behind yet another 45 mph-er on your A-road journey? Or just give in and accept that you're part of a stream and save the enjoyment for the odd isolated few minutes when you're lucky enough to have no one dawdling along in front of you?
I have to say, on the rare but therefore noticeable occasions when I encounter someone in a car when I'm on the bike who is driving what I consider to be beautifully on a NSL A- or B-road (neither dawdling nor rushing, no needless braking, acting courteously when encountering other users, anticipating hazards calmly and appropriately, etc.), I feel like waiting till I can pull up next to them and tapping on their window and saying, 'Can I just say, thank you, and congratulations – why can't everyone drive like you?'...but of course I'd come across as a mentalist hahaha.
The other problem is that it is a vicious circle with people who are nervous on NSL roads: every time they're overtaken by someone who wants to drive decently, it presumably reinforces their fear and sense that everyone's going too fast and that they are right to be pottering along. Yes, it would be lovely if we could just be accommodating and think 'people can drive however slowly they like', but *everyone* is aware of how congested the roads are and should realise that a car is not a lone agent but rather part of a stream, on the vast majority of even vaguely major routes, and therefore if you decide to drive 10 or 15 mph under the perfectly adequate limit then you are therefore forcing everyone else behind you to do so as well, which cannot be anything other than selfish and inconsiderate.
k off out of my way!!!!!vonhosen said:
The attitude of blaming others for your mistakes & failing to take personal responsibility for your own choices/actions is one of the most prevalent & dangerous things in driving.
What a good way of describing people who drive too slowly for conditions knowing the problems they cause. Often the same group of people who have to keep "their independence" after 80 years of life whilst thinking nothing of the independence of those yet to experience the rich tapestry of life over the next 70-80 years.I have to add there are a large group of "motorcyclists" that have now been forced into a position of being in the way through no fault of their own, with the new European standards for emissions. Four stroke 125s are now absolutely incapable of achieving any reasonable speed in any reasonable timeframe. Now it's not just mopeds you have to watch for (which are easily overtaken as they're stuck at 30). It's motorcycles that struggle to maintain 45 up a hill.
ericmcn said:
Or you can overtake them...
But you cannot. You're not at the front of the queue, and you've got someone sat glued to their bumper because of their inappropriately low speed. You cannot get a clear overtake of both vehicles, firstly because it's a longer train and secondly because of the risk that the pillock glued to their back bumper might swing out to overtake too.The one person in that entire chain of events who can change that situation for all concerned in one action with no consequences is the person at the front. Drive to the conditions, no train of slow moving cars. We should not be looking at blaming the effect, we should be looking to blame the cause.
Pegscratch said:
ericmcn said:
Or you can overtake them...
But you cannot. You're not at the front of the queue, and you've got someone sat glued to their bumper because of their inappropriately low speed. You cannot get a clear overtake of both vehicles, firstly because it's a longer train and secondly because of the risk that the pillock glued to their back bumper might swing out to overtake too.The one person in that entire chain of events who can change that situation for all concerned in one action with no consequences is the person at the front. Drive to the conditions, no train of slow moving cars. We should not be looking at blaming the effect, we should be looking to blame the cause.
Their mindset is at the root of that choice.
vonhosen said:
I'm certainly not saying that people should be driving inconsiderately, just that the response to it shouldn't or needn't be dangerous driving. The driver who engages in the dangerous overtake makes a personal choice that they are responsible for in relation to the overtake.
Their mindset is at the root of that choice.
They do, but that doesn't mean that the person driving slowly hasn't made a personal choice that makes them partially responsible for the situation. You also don't get to apply the law of "more wrong" here; where someone is stealing a bag of sweets whilst someone else is raping someone in the next room, the stealing doesn't "not happen" because the rape was clearly more wrong. Going back to the overtake t is entirely possible for the pair of them to be in court on similar charges for different actions.Their mindset is at the root of that choice.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
How have you arrived at the conclusion that they have no valid reason?
Because being incapable of driving at the speed limit due to health/age/tiredness is a valid reason for not having a licence, not a valid reason for driving slowly. Having an insecure load is a good reason for being prosecuted for it. Being otherwise distracted is a good reason for being prosecuted for driving without due care and attention. Having a set of tyres that mean you will slide off the road cos it's a bit damp and past 30mph it's a lot sketchy is a good reason for being prosecuted for not maintaining your vehicle properly.There are always examples of where inclement conditions or a presence of other external factors are a good reason to slow down. Those factors rarely (if ever) exist for 6-10 miles of NSL single carriageway in Lincolnshire except when the roads have turned white.
Pegscratch said:
vonhosen said:
I'm certainly not saying that people should be driving inconsiderately, just that the response to it shouldn't or needn't be dangerous driving. The driver who engages in the dangerous overtake makes a personal choice that they are responsible for in relation to the overtake.
Their mindset is at the root of that choice.
They do, but that doesn't mean that the person driving slowly hasn't made a personal choice that makes them partially responsible for the situation. You also don't get to apply the law of "more wrong" here; where someone is stealing a bag of sweets whilst someone else is raping someone in the next room, the stealing doesn't "not happen" because the rape was clearly more wrong. Going back to the overtake t is entirely possible for the pair of them to be in court on similar charges for different actions.Their mindset is at the root of that choice.
The authorities can choose what offences they deal with & what offences they just turn a blind eye to or exercise discretion over. Dangerous driving will take precedence for them over inconsiderate driving.
How many prosecutions do you see for inconsiderate driving for choice of speed under the limit?
The courts will also not accept that somebody else’s behaviour that you viewed as annoying is good reason for you to act dangerously.
Edited by vonhosen on Thursday 31st October 12:47
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff