Police Aggression at Car Meets
Discussion
Greendubber said:
Two wrongs dont make a right in the circumstances given.
The OP would have been better off asking for the officers details than telling them to f
k off.
Better doing both. Always ask for their superior officer and don’t be scared of standing your ground. It was probably a new recruit power trip. The OP would have been better off asking for the officers details than telling them to f
k off. yonex said:
Greendubber said:
Two wrongs dont make a right in the circumstances given.
The OP would have been better off asking for the officers details than telling them to fk off.
Better doing both. Always ask for their superior officer and don’t be scared of standing your ground. It was probably a new recruit power trip. The OP would have been better off asking for the officers details than telling them to f
k off. As aleady said get details and deal with it later by making a complaint if not happy.
yonex said:
Greendubber said:
Two wrongs dont make a right in the circumstances given.
The OP would have been better off asking for the officers details than telling them to fk off.
Better doing both. Always ask for their superior officer and don’t be scared of standing your ground. It was probably a new recruit power trip. The OP would have been better off asking for the officers details than telling them to f
k off. Greendubber said:
If Mrs Miggins has phoned up complaining about a loud car that's running outside her house then that's good enough, no 'noise limit' applies to Sec 59...
Can a driver be prosecuted for "careless, or inconsiderate, driving" if the vehicle is not actually moving?I'd always assumed that it was what the Americans call a "moving violation".
GT03ROB said:
XCP said:
and the nasty policeman used a rude word...
god forbid, naughty Mr. Policeman........ must have been some mental stress & damage caused, compensation due I think. If you got told to f-off by a police officer for something you hadn't done you'd honestly not be a teeny bit angry? If anyone told me to f-off I'd be quite angry.
Try dialing down patronising level 10 to something a bit more mature.
Greendubber said:
If Mrs Miggins has phoned up complaining about a loud car that's running outside her house then that's good enough, no 'noise limit' applies to Sec 59.
Personally I'd just ask him to turn it off and wouldn't even consider getting a pen out.
Part of my point is it is more than enough for Mrs Miggins to get on the phone. That isn't necessary for an S59.Personally I'd just ask him to turn it off and wouldn't even consider getting a pen out.
The other part is that I fully understand that it can get a bit heated in police/public interaction. Police can make genuine mistakes. With usual law enforcement, there is a good period to calm down, and an independent hearing to present evidence on both sides, and be as sure as we can be that there were no mistakes in the heat of the moment.
An S59 is without this review. And no Police officer is going to admit a mistake in the heat of the moment. So in effect, first impressions are fully sufficient to convict. Knowing that there are punishments that can be dolled out at will and without any recourse is a sure fire way to lead to loss of respect and create wider problems.
Edited by RedSwede on Tuesday 3rd December 09:14
Greendubber said:
Its actually incredibly useful.
Of course its "incredibly useful". It is easy and gets the results that the police want at the time. Not so sure it is "incredibly useful" in the long run - like almost every singe quick and dirty bodge, it has longer-term/wider problemsRogerDodger said:
GT03ROB said:
XCP said:
and the nasty policeman used a rude word...
god forbid, naughty Mr. Policeman........ must have been some mental stress & damage caused, compensation due I think. If you got told to f-off by a police officer for something you hadn't done you'd honestly not be a teeny bit angry? If anyone told me to f-off I'd be quite angry.
Try dialing down patronising level 10 to something a bit more mature.
k off, I'd be aggrieved correct,If I'm in a location that plod are trying to clear at night & they told me to f
k off, I'd probably follow their advice.Context is everything with naughty words.
RedSwede said:
Greendubber said:
Its actually incredibly useful.
Of course its "incredibly useful". It is easy and gets the results that the police want at the time. Not so sure it is "incredibly useful" in the long run - like almost every singe quick and dirty bodge, it has longer-term/wider problemsYep, clearly a quick and dirty bodge.
GT03ROB said:
If I was walking down a street at 10am in the morning & a plod came up to me & told me to fk off, I'd be aggrieved correct,
If I'm in a location that plod are trying to clear at night & they told me to fk off, I'd probably follow their advice.
Context is everything with naughty words.
Was just about to say similar.k off, I'd be aggrieved correct,If I'm in a location that plod are trying to clear at night & they told me to f
k off, I'd probably follow their advice.Context is everything with naughty words.
If it was an aggressive 'get in your car and f
k off' aimed specifically at the OP you could, sort of, see his point.If it was a more generic statement aimed as advice I'd take the advice. Not just drive to the next car park.
Greendubber said:
Results like getting quads and off road bikes that cause massive annoyance for people off the road and stopping idiots racing about car parks at night and annoying local residents?
Yep, clearly a quick and dirty bodge.
This is the thing though. Dishing S59s to quads racing around driven by people who don't really have any intention of being a law abiding citizen seems hopelessly lenient. It does the job that night, probably, but what's the final outcome? A fine to get it back? I doubt in a lot of cases where it is used, it is really effective at changing behaviour.Yep, clearly a quick and dirty bodge.
In some cases, it possibly makes people think and change their attitudes.
And in other situations, otherwise law abiding people get slapped with an S59 and fear of immediate seizure in the future, because a police officer has had a bad day and thinks something possibly looks a bit shifty. The more people that get aggrieved by this the more people have less respect for the police.
It doesn't take a lot of thought to see the flaws, and that makes it a pretty poor tool in my book. But yes, it's great if you want to be quick and dirty and work within cut budgets, low funding, etc.
RedSwede said:
This is the thing though. Dishing S59s to quads racing around driven by people who don't really have any intention of being a law abiding citizen seems hopelessly lenient. It does the job that night, probably, but what's the final outcome? A fine to get it back? I doubt in a lot of cases where it is used, it is really effective at changing behaviour.
In some cases, it possibly makes people think and change their attitudes.
And in other situations, otherwise law abiding people get slapped with an S59 and fear of immediate seizure in the future, because a police officer has had a bad day and thinks something possibly looks a bit shifty. The more people that get aggrieved by this the more people have less respect for the police.
It doesn't take a lot of thought to see the flaws, and that makes it a pretty poor tool in my book. But yes, it's great if you want to be quick and dirty and work within cut budgets, low funding, etc.
So what exactly are the flaws you mention? (not your anecdotal assumptions of the rights and wrongs)In some cases, it possibly makes people think and change their attitudes.
And in other situations, otherwise law abiding people get slapped with an S59 and fear of immediate seizure in the future, because a police officer has had a bad day and thinks something possibly looks a bit shifty. The more people that get aggrieved by this the more people have less respect for the police.
It doesn't take a lot of thought to see the flaws, and that makes it a pretty poor tool in my book. But yes, it's great if you want to be quick and dirty and work within cut budgets, low funding, etc.
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