CPS appealing in 159mph Pc case
Discussion
kwitted than they alreday do!If it's okay to say that Pc Milton is the creme de la creme what is to stop joe public using the same defence, and the only way it can be proved that any other driver is not equally as competant is to let said driver prove it by driving at such a speed and I don't see them allowing that. But who said life is fair!
The point to come out of this episode is the incompetence of the West Mercia Force. For them not to have a policy of when, where and how a class 1 driver can test his skills is amazing. Do they just say go out there and do your thing? They have drummed into us that speed kills so they kknow how dangerous it is even for a highly skilled driver. I beleive they failed in their duty of care to an employee.
rewc should have said:
The point to come out of this episode is the incompetence of the West Mercia Force gaffers.
This should never have gone to court.
Let's face it you have to keep your eye in, thus it was and alsways will be.
CPS on a hiding to nothing one hopes. More of my and your taxes being wasted. What new evidence are they going to bring?
All the ranting in places such as pistonheads by prejudiced idiots who don't have the facts and not seen the evidence.
What I dont understand is what, exactly, he was testing.
At 159mph he must have been simply driving in a straight line. If it was, say, 80 along a B road that involved controlling the car, negotiating corners etc then thats one thing. But, I mean, apparently there wasn't any traffic on the road at the time so he didnt even have to work on closing distances etc.
Plus, doing 159mph on a motorway is more or less the same in any car capable of that speed. So he wasn't learing the car, he was just practising holding onto the steering wheel and sticking a brick on the accelerator just to see how fast the car went!
"Controlled" Speeding isnt dangerous, stopping rapidly or causing somebody else to stop rapidly is by the way.
At 159mph he must have been simply driving in a straight line. If it was, say, 80 along a B road that involved controlling the car, negotiating corners etc then thats one thing. But, I mean, apparently there wasn't any traffic on the road at the time so he didnt even have to work on closing distances etc.
Plus, doing 159mph on a motorway is more or less the same in any car capable of that speed. So he wasn't learing the car, he was just practising holding onto the steering wheel and sticking a brick on the accelerator just to see how fast the car went!
"Controlled" Speeding isnt dangerous, stopping rapidly or causing somebody else to stop rapidly is by the way.
Flat in Fifth said:
The point to come out of this episode is the incompetence of the West Mercia Force gaffers.
This should never have gone to court.
Let's face it you have to keep your eye in, thus it was and alsways will be.
CPS on a hiding to nothing one hopes. More of my and your taxes being wasted. What new evidence are they going to bring?
All the ranting in places such as pistonheads by prejudiced idiots who don't have the facts and not seen the evidence.
My original entry said West Mercia Police, and by that I meant the polcy makers and Chief Constable, not individual lower rank Policemen.
In any other business that has staff carrying out hazardous duties e.g working on the railway or climbing antenna towers, a risk assessment and policy has to be in place which states, amongst other things what you must do before you undertake the activity. The fact that there was no policy was shere incompetence and beggars belief that these people are allowed to run a Police force. What other hazardous duties e.g carrying fire arms do they not have a policy for.
Flat in Fifth said:
The point to come out of this episode is the incompetence of the West Mercia Force gaffers.
This should never have gone to court.
Hmmmm.......
Let's face it you have to keep your eye in, thus it was and alsways will be.
Agreed but in line with corporate health and safety policy. Oh it appears there was none.
CPS on a hiding to nothing one hopes. More of my and your taxes being wasted. What new evidence are they going to bring?
Dunno, maybe they are thinking of the children
All the ranting in places such as pistonheads by prejudiced idiots who don't have the facts and not seen the evidence.
As I have said before, I care not a jot about the 156 on the M way.
Are you really trying to say that 80+ is the upper limit for police drivers in these areas????
It would perhaps be in the forces best intrests to highlight EXACTLY what went on to the general public. After all it was enough to get his fellow officers gall.
cheers
MoJo.
mojocvh said:
Are you really trying to say that 80+ is the upper limit for police drivers in these areas????
No as a result of this the upper limit for training at the moment is........... 70.
Now it's up to you, but given the level of official training resources, reckon if I was in a bit of a scrape I'd rather that whoever was on the way to assist was fully familiarised with the performance and handling envelope of the vehicle before they set off to me.
Flat in Fifth said:
Are you really trying to say that 80+ is the upper limit for police drivers in these areas????
No as a result of this the upper limit for training at the moment is........... 70.
Sorry but if that is an upper "training" limit then it's time to think about backing off in real time.
Now it's up to you, but given the level of official training resources, reckon if I was in a bit of a scrape I'd rather that whoever was on the way to assist was fully familiarised with the performance and handling envelope of the vehicle before they set off to me.
Subtle argument there and I do see what you are saying but......yes but do their "training" away from public areas surely you can see the rational behind that??
cheers (and stay safe)
MoJo
mojocvh said:
Subtle argument there and I do see what you are saying but......yes but do their "training" away from public areas surely you can see the rational behind that??
but where?
So after two days training everyone knows the mountain course at Millbrook like the back of their hand. More like circuit training then.
So where do you go to get the real skills in? The skills to keep safe in extremis?
Flat in Fifth said:
mojocvh said:
Subtle argument there and I do see what you are saying but......yes but do their "training" away from public areas surely you can see the rational behind that??
but where?
So after two days training everyone knows the mountain course at Millbrook like the back of their hand. More like circuit training then.
So where do you go to get the real skills in? The skills to keep safe in extremis?
This is exactly the problem. There should have been a policy in place that lays down the procedure individual police officers have to follow whilst undertaking this hazardous activity. I off course realise that this policeman is highly trained and a class 1 driver, but when the Police are insistent that driving above 70mph is dangerous and can kill, the lack of a policy which states under what circumstances individual officers can exceed this, presumably up to the top speed of the car is negligence. That is not just what I think it is what the judge said.
>> Edited by rewc on Saturday 11th June 09:31
I'm sorry, but I really can't go along with this bull about "creme de la creme" and class 1 divers being some kind of god's behind the wheel...
if they are such top drivers, why are they not proffessional race drivers or the like?
All I see is an increasing number of RTA's involving police cars (and a rising number of KSI's) and in my daily driving more examples of plain incopedant driving of police cars as the years go by.
if you want to do high speed car training, this should NOT be done on the open road, it should etheir be done on closed sections, or on closed tracks (and there are more than just Milbrook).
If you follow the logic that it's OK for the Police to practive on the road, why can't I 'practice' with my race car on the road? after all, I hold the highest grade race licence that can be nationally issues, so I must be some kind of driving god....
if they are such top drivers, why are they not proffessional race drivers or the like?
All I see is an increasing number of RTA's involving police cars (and a rising number of KSI's) and in my daily driving more examples of plain incopedant driving of police cars as the years go by.
if you want to do high speed car training, this should NOT be done on the open road, it should etheir be done on closed sections, or on closed tracks (and there are more than just Milbrook).
If you follow the logic that it's OK for the Police to practive on the road, why can't I 'practice' with my race car on the road? after all, I hold the highest grade race licence that can be nationally issues, so I must be some kind of driving god....
I really don't think we should rely too much on parallels between racing drivers and high performance driving on public roads. Racing drivers have great skill in car handling at high speeds, but driving on public roads needs a wider range of skills.
Police Traffic Officers also need skills in handling cars at high speed, though not quite in the same way as do racing drivers. It therefore makes sense for police drivers to do some training on closed circuits.
In order to prepare them properly for high speed response work - and the even more specialised pursuit driving - I think it is essential that a significant amount of police driver training takes place on public roads in real traffic situations. That is what they will have to contend with in their work, and whilst recognising that there are risks involved, I doubt if there is a satisfactory alternative at this time.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Police Traffic Officers also need skills in handling cars at high speed, though not quite in the same way as do racing drivers. It therefore makes sense for police drivers to do some training on closed circuits.
In order to prepare them properly for high speed response work - and the even more specialised pursuit driving - I think it is essential that a significant amount of police driver training takes place on public roads in real traffic situations. That is what they will have to contend with in their work, and whilst recognising that there are risks involved, I doubt if there is a satisfactory alternative at this time.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Flat in Fifth said:
The point to come out of this episode is the incompetence of the West Mercia Force gaffers.
This should never have gone to court.
Let's face it you have to keep your eye in, thus it was and alsways will be.
159 on the motorway - not a big problem.
84 in a 30 limit in suburban telford where a kid might have run onto the street to collect a runaway football - utter stupidity.
Put the guy in a marked car and make him use the appropriate lights and sirens.
so, just to draw on the parallels...
it's OK for the police to speed massively on public open roads in the name of training, no matter that there are lot's of 'normal' drivers about minding their own buissness etc?
On a track, we have on-site fire and medical staff, everybody is up to speed with what it's going on, we all know the risks and have signed up for it.
in the road, they have zero support (appart from calling 999), the other road users have not signed up for this, and have no idea what may or may not happen, etc etc.
if I was involved in an accident due to this I would be sueing the arse of the police, for willfull endangerment, reckless driving, racing on the public highway, etc etc etc.
whichever way to look at it, if, as we are being battered with, speed kills, then there should be ZERO defence for this kind of 'training' on public roads.
point in case, when the Welsh police decided to do all the WRC drivers for speeding.
asside all this, how do you account for the ever increasing accidnet rates involving police cars?
it's OK for the police to speed massively on public open roads in the name of training, no matter that there are lot's of 'normal' drivers about minding their own buissness etc?
On a track, we have on-site fire and medical staff, everybody is up to speed with what it's going on, we all know the risks and have signed up for it.
in the road, they have zero support (appart from calling 999), the other road users have not signed up for this, and have no idea what may or may not happen, etc etc.
if I was involved in an accident due to this I would be sueing the arse of the police, for willfull endangerment, reckless driving, racing on the public highway, etc etc etc.
whichever way to look at it, if, as we are being battered with, speed kills, then there should be ZERO defence for this kind of 'training' on public roads.
point in case, when the Welsh police decided to do all the WRC drivers for speeding.
asside all this, how do you account for the ever increasing accidnet rates involving police cars?
tallbloke said:
159 on the motorway - not a big problem.
84 in a 30 limit in suburban telford where a kid might have run onto the street to collect a runaway football - utter stupidity.
Put the guy in a marked car and make him use the appropriate lights and sirens.
could not agree more.
can you imagine if some mear mortal did this?
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