Other driver pranged barrier while overtaking.
Discussion
Jonno02 said:
meatballs said:
Wife says didn't see him. Sound like wife's fault technically.
Doesn't mean I agree, bloody stupid to overtake someone behind a pulling in bus, but without witnesses it's he said she said.
I'd argue the 4x4 driver didn't assess the situation and overtook at an unsafe moment. His fault. Doesn't mean I agree, bloody stupid to overtake someone behind a pulling in bus, but without witnesses it's he said she said.
HOW do you know he was not ?
Have you thought about distance covered/time.
MB140 said:
Hol said:
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I do wonder if the responses around who is to blame would be identical if outcome swapped and the wife crashed into the bus, because her overtake was blocked by the 4x4?
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Simply put she should be driving with enough gap to be able to stop before hitting the bus. If she can’t she’s going either I do wonder if the responses around who is to blame would be identical if outcome swapped and the wife crashed into the bus, because her overtake was blocked by the 4x4?
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Edited by Hol on Tuesday 21st January 11:51
a) Too fast to stop or
b) tailgating the bus to close
The driver has gone for at least a double overtake with no option to bail out of it. It should be responsible to expect another driver to want to overtake a bus, so should have planned for it.
CustardOnChips said:
Does the same not apply to the driver of the pickup?
The driver has gone for at least a double overtake with no option to bail out of it. It should be responsible to expect another driver to want to overtake a bus, so should have planned for it.
4x4 was committed to a legal overtake, bus indicates late and starts to pull in, the driver that had been showing no intent to over take (following close) then pulls out without checking their mirrors (sufficiently) forcing the legally overtaking 4x4 to bin it.The driver has gone for at least a double overtake with no option to bail out of it. It should be responsible to expect another driver to want to overtake a bus, so should have planned for it.
The ONE thing we do know is she pulled out on an overtaking 4x4 and it surprised her by being there !
Bill said:
My arse. For all we know he could have been paying no attention and realised the bus and car were slowing too late to do anything but swerve out.
Nice start:Well you will be pleased I agree with you TOTALLY
Most things can be put forward as possible or even probable but : one thing we know for sure is she did not look sufficiently well to notice the 4x4 as the OP said.
Dont like rolls said:
4x4 was committed to a legal overtake, bus indicates late and starts to pull in, the driver that had been showing no intent to over take (following close) then pulls out without checking their mirrors (sufficiently) forcing the legally overtaking 4x4 to bin it.
The ONE thing we do know is she pulled out on an overtaking 4x4 and it surprised her by being there !
You might wish to read the OP again. Where does late come from? How do yo know the 4x4 didn't start to overtake when the bus started to slow, not before?The ONE thing we do know is she pulled out on an overtaking 4x4 and it surprised her by being there !
You mentioned the time taken. Are you suggesting he was overtaking several cars and a bus then?
Sticks. said:
You might wish to read the OP again. Where does late come from? How do yo know the 4x4 didn't start to overtake when the bus started to slow, not before?
You mentioned the time taken. Are you suggesting he was overtaking several cars and a bus then?
Nope, all I am saying is that we know only one persons fault for sure: the one who pulled out and was surprised by a 4x4 in a barrier.You mentioned the time taken. Are you suggesting he was overtaking several cars and a bus then?
Sticks. said:
How do yo know the 4x4 didn't start to overtake when the bus started to slow, not before?
Doesn't matter. Read the Highway Code. Extracts for convenience:162. Before overtaking you should... make sure road users are not beginning to overtake you."
167. DO NOT overtake where... you might come into conflict with other road users. For example... when you would force another road user to swerve or slow down.
It isn't necessary to apportion 100% blame to one party or another. Both can be porportionally at fault.
There isn't enough information on the thread about the timing of the 4x4s decision to overtake. Pulling out and overtaking a moving stream of traffic and the bus then deciding to indicate and pull over whilst you're mid manoeuvre is a different scenario to being in a queue of stationary traffic waiting to pass a stopped bus, for example.
If it was a moving stream, it reads to me like to OPs OH has been careless (in both the criminal and a civil sense) and pulled into the path of the overtaking vehicle, forcing him to have an accident.
If the traffic was stationary and the 4x4 pulled out to pass the queue, you might question his judgement and how carefully he manoeuvred might come into it, but the OP's OH still pulled into his path and caused the collision.
There isn't enough information on the thread about the timing of the 4x4s decision to overtake. Pulling out and overtaking a moving stream of traffic and the bus then deciding to indicate and pull over whilst you're mid manoeuvre is a different scenario to being in a queue of stationary traffic waiting to pass a stopped bus, for example.
If it was a moving stream, it reads to me like to OPs OH has been careless (in both the criminal and a civil sense) and pulled into the path of the overtaking vehicle, forcing him to have an accident.
If the traffic was stationary and the 4x4 pulled out to pass the queue, you might question his judgement and how carefully he manoeuvred might come into it, but the OP's OH still pulled into his path and caused the collision.
Timing has nothing to do with it. Even if the bus indicated left early, what's to stop 4x4 starting an overtake at that point?
If this thread is representative of the average person's ability to review evidence and draw a conclusion from the facts without getting distracted by experience, opinion, and the irrelevant bits, I hope I never end up in court being judged by a jury of my peers. If I'm ever prosecuted for a crime, I'd rather just toss a coin and get it over with.
If this thread is representative of the average person's ability to review evidence and draw a conclusion from the facts without getting distracted by experience, opinion, and the irrelevant bits, I hope I never end up in court being judged by a jury of my peers. If I'm ever prosecuted for a crime, I'd rather just toss a coin and get it over with.
Not exactly the same scenario..... A few years ago I'm approaching queue of 6/7 cars waiting at a set of traffic lights on red. There are 2 lanes, right hand lane being right turn only. As I'm slowing to join the queue the lights change to green and the car 4th in the queue is much slower moving away than cars 1-3, the car immediately in front sees an 'opportunity' to gain a few places so immediately signals right and pulls out straight into the path of the motorcyclist who is just passing me at a sensible pace and knocks him off onto the other side of the road where fortunately there wasn't any oncoming traffic.
Whilst waiting for emergency services I asked the driver what they thought they were doing. "....but I indicated" came the reply.
As a witness the police wrote to me advising me of the outcome of the court case. Net result for the driver of the car 6 points, £400 fine plus costs. An expensive lesson and potentially a fatal accident all because a mirror wasn't checked.
Whilst waiting for emergency services I asked the driver what they thought they were doing. "....but I indicated" came the reply.
As a witness the police wrote to me advising me of the outcome of the court case. Net result for the driver of the car 6 points, £400 fine plus costs. An expensive lesson and potentially a fatal accident all because a mirror wasn't checked.
There are lots of things we don't know but a couple we do.
1.Pickups don't suddenly materialise out of thin air.
2.The OP's wife didn't see the pickup before she pulled out to overtake the bus.
Given the facts as we know them, we can't categorically state that the pickup was in the wrong (too fast, dangerous overtake, careless etc) but we can conclude that for whatever reason she pulled out in front of or alongside of a vehicle which was in the process of overtaking her.
Slam dunk I'm afraid, she was definitely in the wrong. She either didn't look before making her manoeuvre or didn't look properly before making her manoeuvre.
1.Pickups don't suddenly materialise out of thin air.
2.The OP's wife didn't see the pickup before she pulled out to overtake the bus.
Given the facts as we know them, we can't categorically state that the pickup was in the wrong (too fast, dangerous overtake, careless etc) but we can conclude that for whatever reason she pulled out in front of or alongside of a vehicle which was in the process of overtaking her.
Slam dunk I'm afraid, she was definitely in the wrong. She either didn't look before making her manoeuvre or didn't look properly before making her manoeuvre.
Edited by Desiderata on Thursday 23 January 10:08
Desiderata said:
There are lots of things we don't know but a couple we do.
1.Pickups don't suddenly materialise out of thin air.
2.The OP's wife didn't see the pickup before she pulled out to overtake the bus.
Given the facts as we know them, we can't categorically state that the pickup was in the wrong (too fast, dangerous overtake, careless etc) but we can conclude that for whatever reason she pulled out in front of or alongside of a vehicle which was in the process of overtaking her.
Slam dunk I'm afraid, she was definitely in the wrong. She either didn't look before making her manoeuvre or didn't look properly before making her manoeuvre.
not a slam dunk though1.Pickups don't suddenly materialise out of thin air.
2.The OP's wife didn't see the pickup before she pulled out to overtake the bus.
Given the facts as we know them, we can't categorically state that the pickup was in the wrong (too fast, dangerous overtake, careless etc) but we can conclude that for whatever reason she pulled out in front of or alongside of a vehicle which was in the process of overtaking her.
Slam dunk I'm afraid, she was definitely in the wrong. She either didn't look before making her manoeuvre or didn't look properly before making her manoeuvre.
Edited by Desiderata on Thursday 23 January 10:08
Could deny pulling out or even being there, hard to prove as no damage to their car
Could state excessive speed not allowing reasonable ability to check if approaching (ie not visible when beginning manoeuvre), as they ended up in a ditch, this might be easy defence to muddy the waters ? the pickup has no proof of how fast they were going, but I bet we are all thinking he was hoofing it a bit.
Without many more 'facts' (as you do note) its impossible to state any more.
Its easy to say 'didn't look properly' and your probably right, I had a claim when a wagon took out my first car because he didnt look when pulling out from a layby, but without a signed statement from the wagon driver, I would not have had a leg to stand on (In fact, I also hit a third party in the ensuing accident and the wagon driver's insurance company denied the accident had even taken place until I sent a copy of my successful claim)
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