E Scooters soon to be allowed on UK roads?

[Northernboy]

bigothunter said:

monthou said:

Okay. Fine. And yet it's still cars that kill pedestrians. Even on the pavement. What to do...

Cars don't kill pedestrians on London Bridge.

That’s a particularly crass post.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_London_Bridge...

[monthou]

ddom said:

monthou said:

Just say that then.
They're almost inevitably coming soon, whatever.

Nope. If you bother to follow the news you’ll see the Police cracking down all this month, which can only be a good thing for everyone.

Nope?
Privately owned ones are not currently legal.
Hence 'coming soon' rather than 'here now'.
How complicated is that?

[bigothunter]

Northernboy said:

That’s a particularly crass post.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_London_Bridge...

Would you feel happier with this example of pedestrian/vehicle segregation, even with that cyclist on the pavement?

[bigothunter]

monthou said:

bigothunter said:

monthou said:

Okay. Fine. And yet it's still cars that kill pedestrians. Even on the pavement. What to do...

Cars don't kill pedestrians on London Bridge.

Brilliant. We can do that everywhere.
After the bridge to Ireland, obviously.

You really don't understand the principle, do you? Let's try again:

To get anywhere close to Vision Zero, radical changes to road safety are necessary. This includes segregation of pedestrians/vehicles. There are numerous examples in many UK towns and cities, where large (but ugly) concrete blocks achieve segregation.

Zoning is also essential. Ban cars from town/city centres to create pedestrian zones. On rural roads without pavements, impose low speed limits to protect pedestrians.

[Graveworm]

eldar said:

How do you imagine potential escooter owners currently get around?

Well from the studies carried out in cities where they have already been introduced, it appears the vast majority used to get around by walking, cycling or using public transport.

[Graveworm]

monthou said:

Okay. Fine. And yet it's still cars that kill pedestrians. Even on the pavement. What to do...

Maybe what we actually need is the opposite. No pavements, everyone shares the same space.

Per mile driven they are far from the biggest threat in London.

[silverthorn2151]

Been in the City for the first time in over a year. Saw dozens of escooters and didn't see one that was causing an issue. One chap had headphones on, which I thought was stupid. Saw more haphazard riding from people of ebikes to be frank.

Made me wish I'd taken mine on the train. Might just do that for fun one day soon.

[eldar]

Graveworm said:

eldar said:

How do you imagine potential escooter owners currently get around?

Well from the studies carried out in cities where they have already been introduced, it appears the vast majority used to get around by walking, cycling or using public transport.

For example?

[Graveworm]

eldar said:

For example?

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5801/cmselect/cmtrans/255/25506.htm

[pincher]

bmwmike said:

40 odd people are killed per year by cars on pavements IIRC.

Bicycles tend not to be on pavements at any speed, as its pointless. They shouldn't be on pavements anyway, but i'd wager a bike will be going slower than an escooter, but can stop a lot more quickly and stably than an escooter.

I took my scooter to work yesterday - got off the train and rode down Fenchurch Street as far as I could (road closed due to gas works). I got off and walked to the junction of Fen Street and Gracechurch Street - in that time 4 people on bikes rode past me on the pavement, by the Walkie Talkie building.

Some escooter riders are knobs and some cyclists are knobs. It's just the way it goes.

[bmwmike]

pincher said:

bmwmike said:

40 odd people are killed per year by cars on pavements IIRC.

Bicycles tend not to be on pavements at any speed, as its pointless. They shouldn't be on pavements anyway, but i'd wager a bike will be going slower than an escooter, but can stop a lot more quickly and stably than an escooter.

I took my scooter to work yesterday - got off the train and rode down Fenchurch Street as far as I could (road closed due to gas works). I got off and walked to the junction of Fen Street and Gracechurch Street - in that time 4 people on bikes rode past me on the pavement, by the Walkie Talkie building.

Some escooter riders are knobs and some cyclists are knobs. It's just the way it goes.

True. I still want to see an escooter rider do an emergency stop at max speed. I've got visions of it tipping up and the face becoming part of the brake system - is that how it works, or are they quite stable? Can they stop quickly? I've no idea how they ride, and don't mind admitting that. Not tried one.

[Graveworm]

bmwmike said:

pincher said:

bmwmike said:

40 odd people are killed per year by cars on pavements IIRC.

Bicycles tend not to be on pavements at any speed, as its pointless. They shouldn't be on pavements anyway, but i'd wager a bike will be going slower than an escooter, but can stop a lot more quickly and stably than an escooter.

I took my scooter to work yesterday - got off the train and rode down Fenchurch Street as far as I could (road closed due to gas works). I got off and walked to the junction of Fen Street and Gracechurch Street - in that time 4 people on bikes rode past me on the pavement, by the Walkie Talkie building.

Some escooter riders are knobs and some cyclists are knobs. It's just the way it goes.

True. I still want to see an escooter rider do an emergency stop at max speed. I've got visions of it tipping up and the face becoming part of the brake system - is that how it works, or are they quite stable? Can they stop quickly? I've no idea how they ride, and don't mind admitting that. Not tried one.

https://etsc.eu/austrian-warnings-over-e-scooter-safet

[okgo]

bmwmike said:

True. I still want to see an escooter rider do an emergency stop at max speed. I've got visions of it tipping up and the face becoming part of the brake system - is that how it works, or are they quite stable? Can they stop quickly? I've no idea how they ride, and don't mind admitting that. Not tried one.

I've seen people stop pretty quickly on them tbf. And the fact you don't see people on the floor constantly must mean they're ok. I mean, have you seen the state of the bikes people ride round on, Peugeots from the 80's etc that are basically fked, the brakes on those isn't going to be better than the ones on the new scooters IMO.

[bmwmike]

Graveworm said:

https://etsc.eu/austrian-warnings-over-e-scooter-s...

Thanks. 30' stopping distance could be... interesting.

[eldar]

Graveworm said:

eldar said:

For example?

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5801/cmselect/cmtrans/255/25506.htm

Cycling UK seem to be the primary source for that claim. Other evidence seems inconclusive.

[anonymous-user]

ddom said:

monthou said:

Just say that then.
They're almost inevitably coming soon, whatever.

Nope. If you bother to follow the news you’ll see the Police cracking down all this month, which can only be a good thing for everyone.

The police may be having an occasional crackdown on illegal activities, that is their job after all, but that will do nothing to change the current course that e-scooters are on, and I would bet money on privately owned scooters being legalised for use on public roads and cycle paths within 12 months.

The Transport Committee are pushing for it to be sooner, but the Government are dragging their feet.

In the meantime, rental and leasing of them will continue to expand.

The long and short of it is, scooters will arrive on our roads in much greater numbers in the very near future.

[Graveworm]

eldar said:

Cycling UK seem to be the primary source for that claim. Other evidence seems inconclusive.

1 of 53 sources all listed. They were not the source, for the modal changes, in other cities. The source for some of them was Lime, who, I assume, would have some skin in the game to show the contrary.

In any event, even if they show "Inconclusively" that changing something would lead to a worse outcome: what process leads to a rational decision that, the changes should be made anyway, in case it turns out to be wrong? Do you have a source that shows the opposite?

Edited by Graveworm on Wednesday 9th June 18:22

[pincher]

bmwmike said:

True. I still want to see an escooter rider do an emergency stop at max speed. I've got visions of it tipping up and the face becoming part of the brake system - is that how it works, or are they quite stable? Can they stop quickly? I've no idea how they ride, and don't mind admitting that. Not tried one.

I don't think it would tip forward, purely because the COG will be quite low, in comparison to a bike. I'll try an unscientific 'emergency stop' from full speed tomorrow, traffic permitting.

I'd be happy to pay some sort of of insurance premium or for an e-scooter licence in order to use one - maybe that's the way forward? Maybe I'm just too damn sensible?

[AJL308]

pincher said:

bmwmike said:

True. I still want to see an escooter rider do an emergency stop at max speed. I've got visions of it tipping up and the face becoming part of the brake system - is that how it works, or are they quite stable? Can they stop quickly? I've no idea how they ride, and don't mind admitting that. Not tried one.

I don't think it would tip forward, purely because the COG will be quite low, in comparison to a bike. I'll try an unscientific 'emergency stop' from full speed tomorrow, traffic permitting.

I'd be happy to pay some sort of of insurance premium or for an e-scooter licence in order to use one - maybe that's the way forward? Maybe I'm just too damn sensible?

Any form of transport other than your own legs - excluding things like wheelchairs - should require mandatory insurance for use in public. It amazes me that pedal cycles have avoided it thus far.

[eldar]

Graveworm said:

eldar said:

Cycling UK seem to be the primary source for that claim. Other evidence seems inconclusive.

1 of 53 sources all listed. They were not the source, for the modal changes, in other cities. The source for some of them was Lime, who, I assume, would have some skin in the game to show the contrary.

In any event, even if they show "Inconclusively" that changing something would lead to a worse outcome: what process leads to a rational decision that, the changes should be made anyway, in case it turns out to be wrong? Do you have a source that shows the opposite?

Edited by Graveworm on Wednesday 9th June 18:22

53 sources, 53 different results in different countries. To me that is inconclusive.

Much more data is required, simply.