E Scooters soon to be allowed on UK roads?

[untakenname]

The threat of six points is the deal breaker for me.
One thing I've wondered is if a child gets the 6 points do they expire after a set time or are they applied to licence as soon as you apply for a provisional (which would then immediately ban them under the two year rule)?

[Toltec]

untakenname said:

The threat of six points is the deal breaker for me.
One thing I've wondered is if a child gets the 6 points do they expire after a set time or are they applied to licence as soon as you apply for a provisional (which would then immediately ban them under the two year rule)?

It would be pretty cruel not to have them expire as normal. Getting insurance after a ban could be interesting too.

[lyonspride]

egor110 said:

lyonspride said:

They'll be legal once the govt figures out how to tax them.

Why tax scooters but not electric bikes ?

For a start we're not talking about VED tax, that's something else. When I say "tax", i;m talking about VAT, tax on fuel, and all the other ways the govt makes money from transportation.

E-bikes are covered under old legislation, as long as they are pedal assist only, they are legal. There are also rules on maximum speed and power output.

I know in the US the law is different, and the legality of them is more like a loop hole, e-bike stores in New York were being hit with huge fines for selling e-bikes.

[Northernboy]

Fishlegs said:

Just had a thought, and figured this was the thread to ask...

You know how e-bikes are assisted rather than powered (at least, the legal ones are). If you stop pedalling, they stop assisting and you just grind to a halt.

Is there such a thing as an assisted e-scooter? If you push along, it'll multiply the effort, but if you stop pushing it along it'll just slow to a stop.

I don't see them in Google searches, but I'm not sure what they might be called if they do exist.

Surely those would be legal under the same rules as assisted e-bikes?

If they existed, and were 100% legal, would you have one? I probably would.

Yes, I’ve two “e-micro” ones. Swiss made, good quality, and there’s no throttle, the assistance just kicks in when you push it along yourself.

[rxe]

MB140 said:

Ain’t that the truth. Right now all these companies renting them out are no doubt employing people to collect/repair etc (all earning a wage, paying tax/NI etc.

There all making a profit so paying business rates/corporation tax etc.

All a nice tax earning revenue. Once they allow jo blogs to go and buy one

a) There losing the tax from the business side of it.
b) people paying for public transport or cars etc are no longer paying all the fuel duty, road tax etc.

The government clearly want us to stop using cars. They just need to figure out how to legislate it so they don’t lose all there income when we shift to an alternative.

I don't see scooters as a replacement for cars at all. When you look at car drivers in central London, they're either taxis, people with stuff to carry, or people who think a 2 mile walk is too much for them. None of these people are going to leap on scooters.

My problem with these things is that the inevitable mode of accident is "face plant". I've done a few of these on mountain bikes and they bloody hurt, even on mud. Your CoG is about 12 inches behind the wheel, as soon as that front wheel stops hard, you're going over the front.

[anonymous-user]

Dog Star said:

I don’t have any doubt that they’re good fun and I’d like one myself, but with six points up for grabs I’d not go near one.

It’s crazy really - your average scally can just crack on and ride one, they’re not going to give a st because they won’t pay the fine, have no licence to worry about and will just get another one. Zero consequence.

This is absolutely the worst bit about it all. The fact that the dregs of society can ride them with impunity, whilst riding dangerously and shouting ‘fk off’ at pedestrians, motorists and the police.

They don’t care in the slightest as they generally won’t have a driving licence, and they will laugh in the face of the tickets and fines. Can’t take something from a person who claims to have nothing.

Scumbags tend to just make off and evade when the police attempt to stop them, whereas someone like me would stop immediately, be polite, and probably have the book thrown at them.

The police are now having a massive crackdown on e scooters and seemingly taking ‘hundreds per day’ off the roads, which will pretty much leave only the scum riding them about.

All this adds up to the general public seeing them as nothing more than transport for criminals, chavs, and the underclass, whilst the people who will have ridden them carefully and considerately are ticketed off the roads.

[okgo]

It's taken a while but given chavs can wheelie 'anything' (a god given talent that a chav has) I heard a peculiar noise out of my window yesterday only to see a feral type wheeliying an e-scooter down the road. Quite impressive tbh.

[MB140]

okgo said:

It's taken a while but given chavs can wheelie 'anything' (a god given talent that a chav has) I heard a peculiar noise out of my window yesterday only to see a feral type wheeliying an e-scooter down the road. Quite impressive tbh.

Yes but when said chav decides to insert himself into the front/side/underneath of some poor innocent correctly insure motorist you can guarantee it will be said motorists fault for doing 21 in a 20.

Said chav will of course get his no win no fee shister lawyer to get your insurance company to pony up for the damage caused to said chavs single brain cell. Your insurance company of course won’t defend you but will fleece you of your hard/honestly earns pounds.

Call me cynical. Too right.

[jakesmith]

NGee said:

jakesmith said:

Lord Marylebone said:

Essentially, the advantages of potentially avoiding some injuries via helmet use, were overshadowed by the population being less fit because they were put off cycling because of mandatory helmets.

I don't see how this argument makes sense. I am not the population of the country therefore I am not affected by the net disadvantage, at an individual level I can still benefit from wearing a helmet.

Whether you like it or not you ARE part of the population of the country. Assuming you pay taxes and use the NHS you will be negatively affected by the increasingly unfit population.
Surely we should be doing more to increase the general fitness of the population and not putting more and more red tape in the way.
We need less of the nanny state and more personal choice to encourage people to stay healthy.

Yeah... no. Not a believer in that, having seen how things like roads and building sites operate in countries where people have little 'red tape' put in their way. The libertarian philosophy only works as far as people actually behave in an informed, reasonable and considerate way. You're putting too much emphasis on a population do do that, perhaps because you do so it seems obvious?

I would like to live in a world where the needs of people who are for whatever reason simply unwilling to take care of themselves, are not promoted over those who are willing to make the most minute sacrifice to take care, such as wearing a helmet. If your argument is that some people mandated to wear helmets won't cycle, and will become obese, then there are a myriad of other harmful and poorly thought out consequences a population with that thinking will inflict on themselves & society. And in the mean time, others who are willing to wear a helmet if told, will suffer. That's before we even challenge the premise in the first place which is not based on real world experience, often cited on here, and possibly not even remotely indicative of what may happen in real life.

[Krikkit]

rxe said:

I don't see scooters as a replacement for cars at all. When you look at car drivers in central London, they're either taxis, people with stuff to carry, or people who think a 2 mile walk is too much for them. None of these people are going to leap on scooters.

That's 50% of the people who would use them - anyone who can't really face walking, and would either get in the car or on other public transport. They're a quick, easy transport method and perfect for urban centres.

They wouldn't replace cars for moving stuff, but as an easy way to zip a mile or so across town they're great.

rxe said:

My problem with these things is that the inevitable mode of accident is "face plant". I've done a few of these on mountain bikes and they bloody hurt, even on mud. Your CoG is about 12 inches behind the wheel, as soon as that front wheel stops hard, you're going over the front.

Have you ridden one? I've tried exactly that kind of manoeuvre and although the front can be locked if you're really trying, it just skids along quite happily. By the time a front tip-over is coming you can just step off it.

[Toltec]

Krikkit said:

Have you ridden one? I've tried exactly that kind of manoeuvre and although the front can be locked if you're really trying, it just skids along quite happily. By the time a front tip-over is coming you can just step off it.

I take it you drop your CoG down and back then brace more through your feet than hands? Similarly to the way you drop your seat post and shift backwards on a downhill on an MTB?

[silverthorn2151]

okgo said:

It's taken a while but given chavs can wheelie 'anything' (a god given talent that a chav has) I heard a peculiar noise out of my window yesterday only to see a feral type wheeliying an e-scooter down the road. Quite impressive tbh.

I wish them luck with that on mine, being front wheel drive and only having a rear brake.

[Donbot]

silverthorn2151 said:

I wish them luck with that on mine, being front wheel drive and only having a rear brake.

Front wheel drive?

Hand in your PH membership.

[anonymous-user]

Motoring solicitor Nick 'Mr Loophole' Freeman has started a petition for e scooters to be registered, so that the rider can be traced if there is an incident.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1E2fyZvfEw

I'm not fussed either way to be honest. If it helps get them legal and cracks down on the scumbags who use them, then I could be for it.

[JQ]

In theory I also wouldn’t have an issue, however I have absolutely no doubt the Gov would totally fk up the management of such a system.

I think the DVLA costs £500m a year to run, I dread to think the size of the bill the gov could run up setting up a new system.

[bmwmike]

The age of the car is fast becoming over as a primary method of transport, particularly amoungst younger people who are not bothering with licenses so much. So let there be scooters, on the roads, for the masses

Get cars off pavements. Even better, get parked cars off roads too. No driveway? Too bad, keep it in a car park and use your scooter to get there. Sorted.

[Psycho Warren]

Except all of this is mute as between late autumn and mid spring, anyone who owns a car will use that rather than freeze or get wet. Same on wet days the rest of the year.

You would have to price electric cars off the road to force people onto scooters/bikes etc.

[Oceanrower]

Psycho Warren said:

Except all of this is mute as between late autumn and mid spring, anyone who owns a car will use that rather than freeze or get wet. Same on wet days the rest of the year.

You would have to price electric cars off the road to force people onto scooters/bikes etc.

Moot. FFS, it’s moot!

[RizzoTheRat]

Psycho Warren said:

Except all of this is mute as between late autumn and mid spring, anyone who owns a car will use that rather than freeze or get wet. Same on wet days the rest of the year.

You would have to price electric cars off the road to force people onto scooters/bikes etc.

Some people, not all. I cycle to work, if it's raining I wear waterproofs. An e-scooter is probably better suited to riding in the rain as you're not going to work up a sweat inside your waterpoofs.

[MB140]

Oceanrower said:

Psycho Warren said:

Except all of this is mute as between late autumn and mid spring, anyone who owns a car will use that rather than freeze or get wet. Same on wet days the rest of the year.

You would have to price electric cars off the road to force people onto scooters/bikes etc.

Moot. FFS, it’s moot!

This thread might be for you. I haven’t checked if you’ve posted on it yet but it sounds right up your street.

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...