E Scooters soon to be allowed on UK roads?
Discussion
pincher said:
Lord Marylebone said:
He is clearly an intelligent chap, and as such, realises that e scooters, e bikes, and other forms of small ‘personal electric transport’ are here to say, so there is no point in trying to fight the direction of travel (no pun intended) as it would be futile.
He obviously accepts these things are coming in rental form, and also likely in legal privately owned form, so I suppose he is concentrating on what could possibly be changed, rather than what cannot.
As I mentioned, I’m not dead against the idea of scooter registration and insurance in principle, but as others have said, this is the British government we are talking about, and they will no doubt completely f
k it up and it will cost £5 Billion to set up or something.
They keep it simple in Germany and it works. Annual scooter insurance is a fixed price of €30, and you get a small anti-tamper sticker to put on your scooter showing you have paid it.
As for plates, scooters in Germany are fitted with mini reg plates like this, so a possibility?
We'd never be able to have number plates that small - the speed cameras would never be able to read them. We would probably end up with car-sized plates He obviously accepts these things are coming in rental form, and also likely in legal privately owned form, so I suppose he is concentrating on what could possibly be changed, rather than what cannot.
As I mentioned, I’m not dead against the idea of scooter registration and insurance in principle, but as others have said, this is the British government we are talking about, and they will no doubt completely f
k it up and it will cost £5 Billion to set up or something.They keep it simple in Germany and it works. Annual scooter insurance is a fixed price of €30, and you get a small anti-tamper sticker to put on your scooter showing you have paid it.
As for plates, scooters in Germany are fitted with mini reg plates like this, so a possibility?
If the plan works for e-scooters, how long before they do the same with e-cycles?
the tribester said:
Blimey, that's how small they are before everyone starts going for personalised smaller ones, or mis-spacing them, and of course those owners that won't bother fitting one because it will spoil the look of their scoot.
If the plan works for e-scooters, how long before they do the same with e-cycles?
The ones which are throttle controlled and/or not even fitted with pedals should already be banned imho. They fall in to the same bracket.If the plan works for e-scooters, how long before they do the same with e-cycles?
On behalf of myself & the people on this thread, I wrote to Grant Shapps recently and demanded that e-scooters be made legal to meet environmental concerns& also because I like them. Here is the response. It sets out in some detail what is happening & why. Seems sensible to me.
Dear Mr JakeSmith,
E scooters
Thank you for you for your email of 4 May to the Rt Hon Grant Shapps MP at the Department for Transport, about road safety and the timing and update on legalising the use of e-scooters. As you will appreciate, the Secretary of State receives large volumes of correspondence, and is unable to answer each individually. Your email was passed to Traffic and Technology Division and I have been asked to reply.
In the UK, powered transporters, also known as micromobility devices, are treated like any other motor vehicle under the Road Traffic Act, and this includes e-scooters. Therefore, e-scooters will be subject to laws requiring them to be built and used safely. Thus, users will need to have insurance, driving licences, number plates, and helmets. The law was not drafted with e-scooters in mind. Consequently, users of e-scooters will find it a challenge to comply with the legal requirements for motor vehicles as set out in this paragraph. Offences relating to driving standards and speeding also apply.
It is therefore, illegal to use a powered transporter on a public road without it complying with these legal requirements. It is also illegal to use a powered transporter in spaces which are set aside for use by pedestrians, cyclists, and horse-riders. This includes on the pavement and in cycle lanes. The Department recognises that people want to take advantage of the opportunities e-scooters can offer. We are committed to encouraging innovation in transport as well as improving road safety, but new modes of transport must be safe and secure by design.
The Department has made regulations that will allow e-scooter trials to begin. The regulations amend the existing legislation to treat e-scooters in trials largely like cycles and e-bikes. The e-scooters will be limited to 15.5 mph (the same as e-bikes), will be permitted in cycle lanes, and will be exempted from vehicle registration and licensing. E-scooters must not be used on pavements. Potential users will be expanded to include anyone with a full or provisional licence, therefore the minimum age for use will be 16 years old. Cycle helmets will be recommended but will not be mandatory.
The Department is running trials of rental e-scooters to assess their safety and the impacts they have on the road. Trials will assess the safety risks presented by e-scooters, the mode shift to e-scooters from other forms of transport, public perceptions around their use and identify other impacts that should be considered for any potential future legalisation of e-scooters. If micromobility vehicles are to be legalised for use on the road, we must find the correct balance between maximising the benefits they offer and keeping road users safe.
All trial e-scooters must meet minimum construction standards and will have a minimum of third-party insurance provided by the e-scooter operator. Guidance on the rules for trials has been published at: www.gov.uk/guidance/e-scooter-trials-guidance-for-... Trials will allow us to gather evidence in a safe and controlled way. The evidence we gather will inform whether e-scooters should be legalised in the future, and how we can ensure their use is as safe as possible. While trials are running, privately-owned e-scooters will remain illegal to use on the road, cycle lanes or pavements. Guidance on the rules for e-scooters that are not part of a trial can be found at:
www.gov.uk/government/publications/powered-transpo...
It is very important the trial e-scooters are used legally. The Department and local authorities hosting trials are speaking to the police about enforcement of the rules for e-scooters. Enforcement of offences relating to unlawful use of powered transporters is an operational matter for individual Chief Officers of police in conjunction with local policing plans. They decide what offences may be appropriate in individual cases, taking into account the circumstances. A range of offences may apply, including those relating to speeding and dangerous driving, as well as insurance and licensing. Users can be fined up to £300, have 6 points put on their driving licence, and the e-scooter can be impounded and if you are concerned about incidents of dangerous e-scooter use, you should contact your local police force to determine what actions they are taking.
Trial areas are required to provide evidence of engagement with the local police before a trial can be approved. This is to ensure the police are aware of the trials, and their role in enforcement. E-scooter operators are also working with the police on this issue. Rental e-scooters in trial areas are made distinct through branding and colour scheme and have a unique reference number on each model to aid identification.
Some 32 trials are underway or soon to begin and will run across the year, with final trial schemes due to conclude by 31 March 2022. The Department is putting in place a comprehensive monitoring and evaluation programme. Any future rules for e-scooters may not be exactly the same as the rules in trials, but they will be based on the evidence we gather in our trials. We are confident the trials will be a success and will help us avoid the problems other countries have faced and ensure that we get our regulations right.
As you are aware the Department is putting in place a comprehensive monitoring and evaluation programme and any future rules for e-scooters may not be exactly the same as the rules in trials. Until we have that evidence we cannot commit to a legislative timetable. Any future changes will be communicated through the gov.uk website, and I can only suggest that you bookmark the webpages that have been provided to you.
I hope this explanation clarifies the situation for you.
Yours sincerely,
Sheila Kissoon
Dear Mr JakeSmith,
E scooters
Thank you for you for your email of 4 May to the Rt Hon Grant Shapps MP at the Department for Transport, about road safety and the timing and update on legalising the use of e-scooters. As you will appreciate, the Secretary of State receives large volumes of correspondence, and is unable to answer each individually. Your email was passed to Traffic and Technology Division and I have been asked to reply.
In the UK, powered transporters, also known as micromobility devices, are treated like any other motor vehicle under the Road Traffic Act, and this includes e-scooters. Therefore, e-scooters will be subject to laws requiring them to be built and used safely. Thus, users will need to have insurance, driving licences, number plates, and helmets. The law was not drafted with e-scooters in mind. Consequently, users of e-scooters will find it a challenge to comply with the legal requirements for motor vehicles as set out in this paragraph. Offences relating to driving standards and speeding also apply.
It is therefore, illegal to use a powered transporter on a public road without it complying with these legal requirements. It is also illegal to use a powered transporter in spaces which are set aside for use by pedestrians, cyclists, and horse-riders. This includes on the pavement and in cycle lanes. The Department recognises that people want to take advantage of the opportunities e-scooters can offer. We are committed to encouraging innovation in transport as well as improving road safety, but new modes of transport must be safe and secure by design.
The Department has made regulations that will allow e-scooter trials to begin. The regulations amend the existing legislation to treat e-scooters in trials largely like cycles and e-bikes. The e-scooters will be limited to 15.5 mph (the same as e-bikes), will be permitted in cycle lanes, and will be exempted from vehicle registration and licensing. E-scooters must not be used on pavements. Potential users will be expanded to include anyone with a full or provisional licence, therefore the minimum age for use will be 16 years old. Cycle helmets will be recommended but will not be mandatory.
The Department is running trials of rental e-scooters to assess their safety and the impacts they have on the road. Trials will assess the safety risks presented by e-scooters, the mode shift to e-scooters from other forms of transport, public perceptions around their use and identify other impacts that should be considered for any potential future legalisation of e-scooters. If micromobility vehicles are to be legalised for use on the road, we must find the correct balance between maximising the benefits they offer and keeping road users safe.
All trial e-scooters must meet minimum construction standards and will have a minimum of third-party insurance provided by the e-scooter operator. Guidance on the rules for trials has been published at: www.gov.uk/guidance/e-scooter-trials-guidance-for-... Trials will allow us to gather evidence in a safe and controlled way. The evidence we gather will inform whether e-scooters should be legalised in the future, and how we can ensure their use is as safe as possible. While trials are running, privately-owned e-scooters will remain illegal to use on the road, cycle lanes or pavements. Guidance on the rules for e-scooters that are not part of a trial can be found at:
www.gov.uk/government/publications/powered-transpo...
It is very important the trial e-scooters are used legally. The Department and local authorities hosting trials are speaking to the police about enforcement of the rules for e-scooters. Enforcement of offences relating to unlawful use of powered transporters is an operational matter for individual Chief Officers of police in conjunction with local policing plans. They decide what offences may be appropriate in individual cases, taking into account the circumstances. A range of offences may apply, including those relating to speeding and dangerous driving, as well as insurance and licensing. Users can be fined up to £300, have 6 points put on their driving licence, and the e-scooter can be impounded and if you are concerned about incidents of dangerous e-scooter use, you should contact your local police force to determine what actions they are taking.
Trial areas are required to provide evidence of engagement with the local police before a trial can be approved. This is to ensure the police are aware of the trials, and their role in enforcement. E-scooter operators are also working with the police on this issue. Rental e-scooters in trial areas are made distinct through branding and colour scheme and have a unique reference number on each model to aid identification.
Some 32 trials are underway or soon to begin and will run across the year, with final trial schemes due to conclude by 31 March 2022. The Department is putting in place a comprehensive monitoring and evaluation programme. Any future rules for e-scooters may not be exactly the same as the rules in trials, but they will be based on the evidence we gather in our trials. We are confident the trials will be a success and will help us avoid the problems other countries have faced and ensure that we get our regulations right.
As you are aware the Department is putting in place a comprehensive monitoring and evaluation programme and any future rules for e-scooters may not be exactly the same as the rules in trials. Until we have that evidence we cannot commit to a legislative timetable. Any future changes will be communicated through the gov.uk website, and I can only suggest that you bookmark the webpages that have been provided to you.
I hope this explanation clarifies the situation for you.
Yours sincerely,
Sheila Kissoon
jakesmith said:
RizzoTheRat said:
Psycho Warren said:
Except all of this is mute as between late autumn and mid spring, anyone who owns a car will use that rather than freeze or get wet. Same on wet days the rest of the year.
You would have to price electric cars off the road to force people onto scooters/bikes etc.
Some people, not all. I cycle to work, if it's raining I wear waterproofs. An e-scooter is probably better suited to riding in the rain as you're not going to work up a sweat inside your waterpoofs.You would have to price electric cars off the road to force people onto scooters/bikes etc.
https://www.pureelectric.com/collections/adults-el...
covboy said:
Not surprised, I wouldn't want to cycle in that lane who knows what puncture fodder is lurking among all that crap 
RizzoTheRat said:
Not surprised, I wouldn't want to cycle in that lane who knows what puncture fodder is lurking among all that crap
I've been completely put off cycling on the roads with segregated bike lanes like this. When it was the bus lane it was quite a nice way to get around, but now that it's the choice of the cycle lane with its glass, nails, dirt and low curbs looking to kill me it's really not very pleasant.Speaing of which, does ayone know what on Earth is going on on Bishopsgate?
I've not been in to our UK office in a very long time, and saw last week that there are vast pavement-like things built out taking up the bus lane al the way up. Some have drop kerbs, so could actually be a segregated cysle path, but most dont, so can't be, and the et result is that I wobbled up there on my Boris bike holding up every bus that came up behind me untol we got to one of the wider bits.
It's awful.
emicen said:
bmwmike said:
Toltec said:
pincher said:
We'd never be able to have number plates that small - the speed cameras would never be able to read them. We would probably end up with car-sized plates
Just make it a QR code that links to the owner, registered address and insurance details. t their e-scooter in to a parked car causing some damage, jump back on and flee the scene.What’s easier to recollect and relay to the owner and/or the police; 3 letters & 3 numbers like the German ones above, or a QR code?
bmwmike said:
emicen said:
bmwmike said:
Toltec said:
pincher said:
We'd never be able to have number plates that small - the speed cameras would never be able to read them. We would probably end up with car-sized plates
Just make it a QR code that links to the owner, registered address and insurance details. t their e-scooter in to a parked car causing some damage, jump back on and flee the scene.What’s easier to recollect and relay to the owner and/or the police; 3 letters & 3 numbers like the German ones above, or a QR code?
Toltec said:
Looks like a great way to kill cyclists and scooter riders.
Was in London this evening prevented from walking toward Oxford Circus as the public were constrained due to some covered up terrorist/mental health attack and noticed that these bollards have sprung up recently that are at an angle that pretty much guarantees a scooter will face plant.
speedyguy said:
Toltec said:
Excellent trip hazard as well. 
some poor sod in our town just got done for drink driving on an e scooter (one of the legal ones). 12 month ban and criminal record for riding something with a max speed of 12mph.. Do the same on a pushbike (with far higher top speed) and it's a 30 quid fine and no criminal record. Police and CPS have gone mad.
I got hit be an e-scooter yesterday. I was walking along a pavement having just done some shopping when I got clipped on my elbow from behind.
A scooter 2 up with a woman and a kid on board wobbled to a stop just in front of me. I felt like lumping the stupid bh, but instead called her a "dozy fking tt" with sufficient volume that about 30 people looked round to see what was happening. She looked at me stupidly, got back on the scooter and wobbled off up the pavement.
A scooter 2 up with a woman and a kid on board wobbled to a stop just in front of me. I felt like lumping the stupid b
h, but instead called her a "dozy fking tt" with sufficient volume that about 30 people looked round to see what was happening. She looked at me stupidly, got back on the scooter and wobbled off up the pavement.djneils98 said:
some poor sod in our town just got done for drink driving on an e scooter (one of the legal ones). 12 month ban and criminal record for riding something with a max speed of 12mph.. Do the same on a pushbike (with far higher top speed) and it's a 30 quid fine and no criminal record. Police and CPS have gone mad.
Good - impact at 12mph can cause serious personal injury. Same laws should apply to cyclists. High time all road users acted responsibly.bigothunter said:
djneils98 said:
some poor sod in our town just got done for drink driving on an e scooter (one of the legal ones). 12 month ban and criminal record for riding something with a max speed of 12mph.. Do the same on a pushbike (with far higher top speed) and it's a 30 quid fine and no criminal record. Police and CPS have gone mad.
Good - impact at 12mph can cause serious personal injury. Same laws should apply to cyclists. High time all road users acted responsibly.I agree the same law should apply to e-scooters and cyclists. Hopefully that will happen when (if?) the government stop prevaricating and regulate private e-scooters.
monthou said:
Proportionality is the thing.
I agree the same law should apply to e-scooters and cyclists. Hopefully that will happen when (if?) the government stop prevaricating and regulate private e-scooters.
Pedestrians can run at 12 mph quite easily. None of the above are in charge of a tonne of metal, so unless you want to make running while drunk illegal... it's just not proportionate to have driving offences on an escooter, and I'd support the law being applied to both being the current cycling law.I agree the same law should apply to e-scooters and cyclists. Hopefully that will happen when (if?) the government stop prevaricating and regulate private e-scooters.
Applying the same offence as for cars to less threatening means of transport might mean some people think "f
k that, I'm not drinking at all", but equally you'll have people who think "fk it, I'll take the car, it'll be less obvious that I've had alcohol".Drunk on a moped should be a somewhat lesser offence than with a car, and drunk driving an HGV should be a long stint in the clink.
Edited by Solocle on Sunday 11th July 14:27
Solocle said:
monthou said:
Proportionality is the thing.
I agree the same law should apply to e-scooters and cyclists. Hopefully that will happen when (if?) the government stop prevaricating and regulate private e-scooters.
Pedestrians can run at 12 mph quite easily. None of the above are in charge of a tonne of metal, so unless you want to make running while drunk illegal...I agree the same law should apply to e-scooters and cyclists. Hopefully that will happen when (if?) the government stop prevaricating and regulate private e-scooters.
Drunk on a moped should be a somewhat lesser offence than with a car, and drunk driving an HGV should be a long stint in the clink.
Personally I'd let people convicted of drunk driving ride mopeds. Or even insist they do, as part of their sentence.
Edited by monthou on Sunday 11th July 14:28
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