E Scooters soon to be allowed on UK roads?
Discussion
heebeegeetee said:
eldar said:
SpidersWeb said:
eldar said:
SpidersWeb said:
What did you expect politicians to do? Say 'f
k it, do whatever you want'?
The same rules as electric bicycles?k it, do whatever you want'? If e scooters represent a hazard, these bigger, faster devices are a greater threat. Thus must be banned to maintain public safety.
SpidersWeb said:
Shnozz said:
It’s easy to establish a modified one as it pelts along at 30mph.
Yes, that bit is easy.Shnozz said:
Stop it, confiscate it, fine the rider and make them walk home.
How do you propose the police stop the chav on the electric scooter doing 30mph? If the police see an illegal electric motorbike they run in the opposite direction for fear of being accused of something contributory when the chavs kill themselves, so what makes you think the police will do anything different with electric scooters?
eldar said:
The currently legal electric bicycles. As said, the regulations governing them are widely ignored it is claimed above.
If e scooters represent a hazard, these bigger, faster devices are a greater threat. Thus must be banned to maintain public safety.
The current legal ebikes are self propelled bicycles, and have no relevance to scooters. Scooters are motorised, so fall into that category.If e scooters represent a hazard, these bigger, faster devices are a greater threat. Thus must be banned to maintain public safety.
Shnozz said:
SpidersWeb said:
Shnozz said:
It’s easy to establish a modified one as it pelts along at 30mph.
Yes, that bit is easy.Shnozz said:
Stop it, confiscate it, fine the rider and make them walk home.
How do you propose the police stop the chav on the electric scooter doing 30mph? If the police see an illegal electric motorbike they run in the opposite direction for fear of being accused of something contributory when the chavs kill themselves, so what makes you think the police will do anything different with electric scooters?
If you want to prevent the chavs getting hold of illegal to ride on the road machines, then outlaw the sale of 'can only be ridden on private land' scooters - I mean seriously, how many landed gentry need to go to Halfords to buy a scooter. And then mopping up those that have already been bought and are being used illegally is a simpler task.
SpidersWeb said:
heebeegeetee said:
eldar said:
SpidersWeb said:
eldar said:
SpidersWeb said:
What did you expect politicians to do? Say 'fk it, do whatever you want'?
The same rules as electric bicycles?k it, do whatever you want'? Edited by SpidersWeb on Wednesday 17th April 10:47
SpidersWeb said:
The solution to the issue is what is being proposed - it is just that you don't like the solution, which are regulations to ensure that riders are insured, are responsible, and that the machines are not anti-social.
If you want to prevent the chavs getting hold of illegal to ride on the road machines, then outlaw the sale of 'can only be ridden on private land' scooters - I mean seriously, how many landed gentry need to go to Halfords to buy a scooter. And then mopping up those that have already been bought and are being used illegally is a simpler task.
So eradication in reality as no one will buy these contraptions nor bother with the extent of these burdensome regulations. Thank goodness they didn’t follow the same approach when bicycles were first on the scene. If you want to prevent the chavs getting hold of illegal to ride on the road machines, then outlaw the sale of 'can only be ridden on private land' scooters - I mean seriously, how many landed gentry need to go to Halfords to buy a scooter. And then mopping up those that have already been bought and are being used illegally is a simpler task.
I don’t like the solution because it’s not a solution; a total ban via the back door is what it is. And I think it’s a backward step that other countries once again seem to have figured out to their advantage and its population as we add to our rule books stuck in the past whilst forever taking steps to make cities as unappealing as possible for personal modes of transport and spending inordinate amounts of tax payers money on cycle lanes that rarely get used by bikes but would prove the perfect infrastructure to be used by the many willing to embrace an escooter whilst eschewing a bike for reasons only known to themselves.
lancslad58 said:
All the ones that I see are 125cc petrol scootesr, L plates, top box for the food, rider infull face crash helmets and full waterproofs. I doubt if an ebike's battery would lst a full evenings shift.
Invariably taking huge risks to dart through the traffic. Seems odd they can be employed as delivery riders whilst still learning to ride 
lancslad58 said:
All the ones that I see are 125cc petrol scootesr,L plates, top box for the food, rider infull face crash helmets and full waterproofs. I doubt if an ebike's battery would lst a full evenings shift.
Not sure where you live but in cities it’s hundreds of ‘bikes’ that are all twist and go and ridden about with balaclavad delivery riders. heebeegeetee said:
eldar said:
The currently legal electric bicycles. As said, the regulations governing them are widely ignored it is claimed above.
If e scooters represent a hazard, these bigger, faster devices are a greater threat. Thus must be banned to maintain public safety.
The current legal ebikes are self propelled bicycles, and have no relevance to scooters. Scooters are motorised, so fall into that category.If e scooters represent a hazard, these bigger, faster devices are a greater threat. Thus must be banned to maintain public safety.
Why do you believe cycles should have that extraordinary privilege?
lancslad58 said:
SpidersWeb said:
also all the illegal 'twist and go, with no pedalling' electric bikes used by the food couriers that plague every town.
All the ones that I see are 125cc petrol scootesr,L plates, top box for the food, rider infull face crash helmets and full waterproofs. I doubt if an ebike's battery would lst a full evenings shift.bigothunter said:
lancslad58 said:
All the ones that I see are 125cc petrol scootesr, L plates, top box for the food, rider infull face crash helmets and full waterproofs. I doubt if an ebike's battery would lst a full evenings shift.
Invariably taking huge risks to dart through the traffic. Seems odd they can be employed as delivery riders whilst still learning to ride Some E bikes that you can rent, like Lime bikes etc, always exclusively seem to be ridden by complete morons with no road sense at all. They zoom up on cars then ride them however they want cutting in and out of traffic and going up and down the pavement whenever they want.
It is especially bad with groups of teenagers pissing around on them with their mates. And bonus idiocy points for the ones making the clicking noise! We all know you've stolen it!!
I've not seen that many E scooters lately but have noticed a few over the past week, some people ride them in the same way
It is especially bad with groups of teenagers pissing around on them with their mates. And bonus idiocy points for the ones making the clicking noise! We all know you've stolen it!!
I've not seen that many E scooters lately but have noticed a few over the past week, some people ride them in the same way
heebeegeetee said:
Graveworm said:
Shnozz said:
OutInTheShed said:
I'm surprised a 'stand-up moped' can be legal, but then again you can road-register a modern trials bike which doesn't really have a seat as such.
35kg is just about light enough to be easily stolen.
I wouldn't worry about theft. No one will buy them in the first place. 35kg is just about light enough to be easily stolen.
Whilst European streets are awash with people using these to free up the roads as well as being environmentally friendly as a by-product, good old Blighty is doing what we do best and legislating the fook out of it to the point the concept is wholly redundant. Waving fists at clouds cos a few folks in Birmingham or some other city have driven them like bellends (see also 99% of cyclists).
At a time when people are complaining at the cost of living, the cost of public transport and at the same time wanting to see environmentally friendly schemes, it seems very much a gift horse looked in the mouth.
The justification put forward for their introduction, here, by the committee who advocated for them, accepted there would be negligible congestion, health or environmental benefits. They had the evidence of modal change. The justification was vehicles for people who were too poor to afford to get a driving licence and an alternative to public transport during the pandemic.
The UK has only legislated (Secondary legislation no changes to acts,to introduce the trials. Those who want them to be legal want more legislation. Other countries and the EU are the ones legislating to introduce restrictions to deal with the issues they are causing.
Edited by Graveworm on Tuesday 16th April 21:42
In UK I see the advantage would be young people being able to travel independently, and not transported everywhere by motor vehicle in the company of parents or elders.
They would previously have been on pavements or cycle paths (Although a few will have moved from pavements to some shared roads). However they are gaining less health benefits, increasing the risks and being more harmful to the environment. It's ironic some are calling for legislation to allow escooters but the evidence isn't that the legislation will be of overall benefit, whilst others are saying that legislation is not the answer as we have too much.
OECD has the UK top. of all countries in consultation and transparency of legislation. Some people wanting something or thinking, from their perspective. it is a good idea shouldn't be enough to allocate resources and introduce legislation when the evidence isn't compelling.
Edited by Graveworm on Wednesday 17th April 14:19
eldar said:
1. Self propelled bicycles with a motor. Scooter, foot propelled scooter with a motor.
2. Why do you believe cycles should have that extraordinary privilege?
1. Nope, that's wrong, and that's probably where you're going wrong right from the start. A legal e-bike is a self propelled bicycle, end of. That's as per the law and Construction and Use regulations. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/electri...2. Why do you believe cycles should have that extraordinary privilege?
Scooters are completely different and I don't have much interest in them.
2. For all sorts of well proven reasons, many of them obvious.
The biggest problem with these things , is like alot of things in life.
Once chaves get hold of them , they abuse them and ride like knobs, same as with cars, motorbikes etc, most normal people ride them properly and safely, the idiots dont, same as those who drive cars with no insurance etc,
Once chaves get hold of them , they abuse them and ride like knobs, same as with cars, motorbikes etc, most normal people ride them properly and safely, the idiots dont, same as those who drive cars with no insurance etc,
Graveworm said:
The evidence is that most journeys made on scooters would previously been made by walking or cycling so the modal change isn't from lifts from parents etc. What you have seen isn't inconsistent with that.
They would previously have been on pavements or cycle paths (Although a few will have moved from pavements to some shared roads). However they are gaining less health benefits, increasing the risks and being more harmful to the environment. It's ironic some are calling for legislation to allow escooters but the evidence isn't that the legislation will be of overall benefit, whilst others are saying that legislation is not the answer as we have too much.
OECD has the UK top. of all countries in consultation and transparency of legislation. Some people wanting something or thinking, from their perspective. it is a good idea shouldn't be enough to allocate resources and introduce legislation when the evidence isn't compelling.
Again, from the evidence of my peepers, particularly in my part of the UK, food delivery riders aside there are almost no young people riding bicycles in or around Birmingham, so I'm going to surprised if the numbers of young cyclists have reduced further - we-re certainly in the science of low numbers here.They would previously have been on pavements or cycle paths (Although a few will have moved from pavements to some shared roads). However they are gaining less health benefits, increasing the risks and being more harmful to the environment. It's ironic some are calling for legislation to allow escooters but the evidence isn't that the legislation will be of overall benefit, whilst others are saying that legislation is not the answer as we have too much.
OECD has the UK top. of all countries in consultation and transparency of legislation. Some people wanting something or thinking, from their perspective. it is a good idea shouldn't be enough to allocate resources and introduce legislation when the evidence isn't compelling.
Edited by Graveworm on Wednesday 17th April 14:19
Given that escooters can obviously travel further distances in shorter time, I'd be surprised to see they're replacing walking journeys completely - I'm sure there's a figure of the average urban walk, I doubt it's that long.
However I can imagine that escooters may well be replacing walking in conjunction with public transport. It is important imo that escooters are not categorised as active travel, 'cos they're not really.
Coincidentally I was on a train with an escooter user last night, the conversation was mostly about the fact he's not allowed on the train with it, and the fun and games he has with dodging drivers or inspectors who are supposed to keep him off. It's to do with Lith batteries apparently, yet the two ebikes that me and my mate had with us are allowed.
Anyway just as he was leaving he said the scooters saving him £500 a month, but we didn't get chance to find out how.
heebeegeetee said:
<other stuff>
Coincidentally I was on a train with an escooter user last night, the conversation was mostly about the fact he's not allowed on the train with it, and the fun and games he has with dodging drivers or inspectors who are supposed to keep him off. It's to do with Lith batteries apparently, yet the two ebikes that me and my mate had with us are allowed.
Anyway just as he was leaving he said the scooters saving him £500 a month, but we didn't get chance to find out how.
The ban I believe is down to the number of cheap chinese escooter fires, because e-bikes are 3 times the cost they're bought a lot less meaning there are fewer fires. Percentages wise i don't think there would be much difference, the rule is stupid to me.Coincidentally I was on a train with an escooter user last night, the conversation was mostly about the fact he's not allowed on the train with it, and the fun and games he has with dodging drivers or inspectors who are supposed to keep him off. It's to do with Lith batteries apparently, yet the two ebikes that me and my mate had with us are allowed.
Anyway just as he was leaving he said the scooters saving him £500 a month, but we didn't get chance to find out how.
heebeegeetee said:
Coincidentally I was on a train with an escooter user last night, the conversation was mostly about the fact he's not allowed on the train with it, and the fun and games he has with dodging drivers or inspectors who are supposed to keep him off. It's to do with Lith batteries apparently, yet the two ebikes that me and my mate had with us are allowed.
The fire reason is that legal electric bikes are likely to have had some quality control in the manufacture and given their expense are likely to have been treated well by their owner, whereas electric scooters are frequently cheap crap with no quality control, treated like badly by their chav owners, and charged with any old cheap charger as the original didn't come with it when it was stolen / bought from FBM.However another reason is that some electric bikes can be legally used on the road so can have a purpose being on public transport as any other bike does, whereas electric scooters have no purpose being off their owners private estate as that is the only place they can be legally used so have no need to be on public transport.
SpidersWeb said:
However another reason is that some electric bikes can be legally used on the road so can have a purpose being on public transport as any other bike does, whereas electric scooters have no purpose being off their owners private estate as that is the only place they can be legally used so have no need to be on public transport.
Yes, that's a good point. This guy's scooter was a Pure, seemed a big thing to me.Also - I was in Spain earlier this year, I see escooters are sold in stores, so I guess they're legal there. However we did also see police stopping scooter riders too. I don't know what the law is in Spain or Europe.
One other thing we frequently notice though is the numbers of police we see when in Europe, in direct contrast to UK.
I'm not sure people's legal or reasonable activities should be curtailed just because the Conservative govt have decided to greatly reduce/remove police from our streets.
heebeegeetee said:
Again, from the evidence of my peepers, particularly in my part of the UK, food delivery riders aside there are almost no young people riding bicycles in or around Birmingham, so I'm going to surprised if the numbers of young cyclists have reduced further - we-re certainly in the science of low numbers here.
Given that escooters can obviously travel further distances in shorter time, I'd be surprised to see they're replacing walking journeys completely - I'm sure there's a figure of the average urban walk, I doubt it's that long.
However I can imagine that escooters may well be replacing walking in conjunction with public transport. It is important imo that escooters are not categorised as active travel, 'cos they're not really.
Coincidentally I was on a train with an escooter user last night, the conversation was mostly about the fact he's not allowed on the train with it, and the fun and games he has with dodging drivers or inspectors who are supposed to keep him off. It's to do with Lith batteries apparently, yet the two ebikes that me and my mate had with us are allowed.
Anyway just as he was leaving he said the scooters saving him £500 a month, but we didn't get chance to find out how.
Probably car prking charges at the station, too far/slow too walk thereGiven that escooters can obviously travel further distances in shorter time, I'd be surprised to see they're replacing walking journeys completely - I'm sure there's a figure of the average urban walk, I doubt it's that long.
However I can imagine that escooters may well be replacing walking in conjunction with public transport. It is important imo that escooters are not categorised as active travel, 'cos they're not really.
Coincidentally I was on a train with an escooter user last night, the conversation was mostly about the fact he's not allowed on the train with it, and the fun and games he has with dodging drivers or inspectors who are supposed to keep him off. It's to do with Lith batteries apparently, yet the two ebikes that me and my mate had with us are allowed.
Anyway just as he was leaving he said the scooters saving him £500 a month, but we didn't get chance to find out how.
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