E Scooters soon to be allowed on UK roads?

[Mort7]

GC8 said:

Mort7 said:

GC8 said:

You have a lifetime of wearing beige and reading the Daily Mail ahead of you...

And you have a lifetime of being a dick..... perhaps?.

Unfortunately, every time that I reply to a snide and deliberately provocative post like this, the weasley bell-end complains to PH and has my post removed.

I will leave you with this thought: adding a smiley face to a ish remark is no substitute for having a sense of humour.

It wasn't snide and deliberately provocative, it was written in jest (the smiley was a clue) as a response to being called a beige-wearing Daily Mail reader - which is a far worse insult. Ironically it's you who've had a sense of humour failure!

And no, I won't be complaining. I’ve quoted you so your comment will be kept for posterity.

Edited by Mort7 on Thursday 2nd July 00:02

[RizzoTheRat]

unident said:

E-bikes are fully legal so there’s no crime there, unless you nick one. E-scooters are halfway there, I quite like them and I really can’t see that there’s going to be a sudden surge of privately owned ones on the roads. Comments like the one above claiming half the world already owns one specific brand are massively overplaying this. I don’t know anyone who owns one, nor does anyone I know know anyone either.

If you look at the e-bike thread on here it seems derestricting e-bikes is very common, and can cost a bit, so there's probably a pretty significant proportion of e-bikes on the road that aren't fully legal. I've yet to see that enforced either though.

[anonymous-user]

RizzoTheRat said:

If you look at the e-bike thread on here it seems derestricting e-bikes is very common, and can cost a bit, so there's probably a pretty significant proportion of e-bikes on the road that aren't fully legal. I've yet to see that enforced either though.

Many of the better quality and ‘premium brand’ ebikes have an accompanying phone app, on which you can simply set or adjust the various parameters of the bike, including the top speed restriction.

On ebikes that are more basic, you can now buy small ‘tuning boxes’ which just plug in to part of the wiring loom and remove the speed limiter.

Will the government/police ever begin to test or enforce the 15.5mph rule for ebikes and escooters? I have no idea.

I suspect there are a lot more pressing matters to deal with, but who knows. If accidents start happening, maybe they will.

[TimmyMallett]

I have skim read this thread but where are these rental systems available? Is this another potentially really helpful bit of legislation that only applies if you live in London? I'd love one but as I live in some mid country town I suspect we wont get sight of it.




although.......whats to stop me buying the same model as the rental companies use and making it look like one? I bet the police have better things to do than stop every scooter....

Edited by TimmyMallett on Thursday 2nd July 09:33

[vaud]

TimmyMallett said:

although.......whats to stop me buying the same model as the rental companies use and making it look like one? I bet the police have better things to do than stop every scooter....

More of an issue if you cause / are involved in an accident, when the absence of any liability insurance will provide the rider with significant risk?

[biggles330d]

eScooters allowable up to 15mph and up to 50kg in weight? Is it just me but jeez, thats potentially a heavy lump moving fast if it hits something.

I'm in two minds. As personal machines I get it. As rentals, I'd love to know if any of these companies are making any money or they are all VC backed chancers. The rush to do this smells a lot like the rush by Mobike to put bikeshare in Manchester. Similar 'give it a go and see what happens' approach, similarly rushed implementation, similarly open ended 'trial'. They'll either take off and be a success or these companies will burn through their cash, the scooters will just be trashed and there will be a re-think on how they could be better introduced.

[anonymous-user]

biggles330d said:

eScooters allowable up to 15mph and up to 50kg in weight? Is it just me but jeez, thats potentially a heavy lump moving fast if it hits something.

I'm in two minds. As personal machines I get it. As rentals, I'd love to know if any of these companies are making any money or they are all VC backed chancers. The rush to do this smells a lot like the rush by Mobike to put bikeshare in Manchester. Similar 'give it a go and see what happens' approach, similarly rushed implementation, similarly open ended 'trial'. They'll either take off and be a success or these companies will burn through their cash, the scooters will just be trashed and there will be a re-think on how they could be better introduced.

It should be noted that the 20+kg e-scooters are the ones that essentially look like some kind of motorcycle monkey-bike with big chunky tyres, large seat, motorcycle style lights etc. I suspect these types will remain quite rare.

Most of the popular premium brand e-scooters weigh around 12-15kg, and as designed to fold flat and be carried inside your house/office etc, which makes them massively more useful.

[vaud]

I think I would use one in London in nice weather.

It's a 20-25 min walk from Kings Cross to my office. Normally use a cab as it's still 20-25 mins by tube.

If I could just walk up to one, unlock with with an app and ride off, it would be quick and cheaper than the cab.

[unident]

RizzoTheRat said:

unident said:

E-bikes are fully legal so there’s no crime there, unless you nick one. E-scooters are halfway there, I quite like them and I really can’t see that there’s going to be a sudden surge of privately owned ones on the roads. Comments like the one above claiming half the world already owns one specific brand are massively overplaying this. I don’t know anyone who owns one, nor does anyone I know know anyone either.

If you look at the e-bike thread on here it seems derestricting e-bikes is very common, and can cost a bit, so there's probably a pretty significant proportion of e-bikes on the road that aren't fully legal. I've yet to see that enforced either though.

And that’s great, but again it’s people buying an e-bike for a significant outlay to start with, then spending even more. I’m not convinced that this is widespread either, although I don’t really know anyone with a road e-bike, just mountain ones.

Do we really think that people en masse are going to think “Oooo e-scooters are legal, time to spend £300 on one, then spend more money to make it look like a rental company one, then spend more money to make it go quicker than it should” Or are we making a mountain out of a molehill? I’m sure the odd person will do it, but that’s par for the course in any population with any law.

[silverthorn2151]

Mines an Xiaomi M365 pro and was £550 or thereabouts. It weighs around 12kg. I would do way more damage to a pedestrian if I was on a Boris bike doing 15mph than on my scooter.

Mine is limited to 15mph, which feels plenty fast enough. There is a workaround you can do to derestrict and it will do high 20s. That strikes me as crazy so not for me. As soon as you do an update after unboxing that workaround disappears.

Taking it on a train tomorrow to see exactly how the first/last mile thing works in practice.

[Stiggolas]

I guess I'm lucky where I live, there's a cycle path more or less from home to work and at the times I travel, the chances of seeing a pedestrian is minimal. I have just turned 600 miles on my scooter and use it to commute 4 miles each way (if its dry). I've had a few shouts from van drivers but no attention from the Police. I do wear a bright top and helmet and, although my scooter is capable of 20mph, I stick to 15 on the cyclepaths. My experience is if you're sensible and give way to EVERYTHING, use your bell and smile at people, it's all good. I'm no teenager with no respect for others, I'm a 56 year old grey head cyclist and I know I can do a site more damage on my bike if I hit someone...

[silverthorn2151]

I agree, give way to everything, ding the bell and smile. As a 59 year old chubby scooterist it seems the 50's are the new reckless teens, at least if you listen to some on here!

[Juber]

So this question may have been covered for for the avoidance of doubt can someone clarify...........

• E Scooters dont have insurance?
• What happens if an E Scooter or a cyclist crashed into your car and caused damage?
• Can your legal cover on your insurance take the individual to court and to claim back damages caused?
• Assuming you would need some sort of concrete evidence such as a dash cam / witness?

I can see this being a huge problem now this has been made legal.

[NGee]

Juber said:

So this question may have been covered for for the avoidance of doubt can someone clarify...........

• E Scooters dont have insurance?
• What happens if an E Scooter or a cyclist crashed into your car and caused damage?
• Can your legal cover on your insurance take the individual to court and to claim back damages caused?
• Assuming you would need some sort of concrete evidence such as a dash cam / witness?

I can see this being a huge problem now this has been made legal.

I guess the answer to your questions is - exactly the same as if a cyclist damages your car now.
Why would an e-scooter cause any more problems than an e-bicycle? (or any other bike!)

[silverthorn2151]

NGee said:

I guess the answer to your questions is - exactly the same as if a cyclist damages your car now.
Why would an e-scooter cause any more problems than an e-bicycle? (or any other bike!)

Exactly. I can guarantee I'd cause more damage if on a bike. Are people as concerned about tourists hopping on Boris bike and wobbling around London?

[anonymous-user]

Juber said:

So this question may have been covered for for the avoidance of doubt can someone clarify...........

• E Scooters dont have insurance?
• What happens if an E Scooter or a cyclist crashed into your car and caused damage?
• Can your legal cover on your insurance take the individual to court and to claim back damages caused?
• Assuming you would need some sort of concrete evidence such as a dash cam / witness?

I can see this being a huge problem now this has been made legal.

We have had bicycles for over 100 years, and now e-bikes have become quite common over the last 5-10 years, and yet very few people are bothered about the 'no insurance' aspect.

Yet suddenly people seem to be gravely worried over e-scooters having no insurance, and I really don't understand the concern.

I would much rather have my car crashed into by an e-scooter than a bicycle of any description, but that aside, why do we think there will suddenly be more crashes on e-scooters than on bicycles?

[Mort7]

Juber said:

So this question may have been covered for for the avoidance of doubt can someone clarify...........

• E Scooters dont have insurance?
• What happens if an E Scooter or a cyclist crashed into your car and caused damage?
• Can your legal cover on your insurance take the individual to court and to claim back damages caused?
• Assuming you would need some sort of concrete evidence such as a dash cam / witness?

I can see this being a huge problem now this has been made legal.

As I understand it, legal (rented) E Scooters will be covered by insurance. Illegal (personally owned) E Scooters will be insured if the owner has taken out insurance, but otherwise not. I'm not sure if insurance companies will cover personally-owned E Scooters for use on the public highway, or if house insurance would cover it.

Edit: This recent news article indicates that insurance will be rolled into rental costs. https://www.standard.co.uk/tech/london-e-scooter-r... That seems likely as the rental companies will want to protect their investment.

Edited by Mort7 on Friday 3rd July 10:19

[TimmyMallett]

vaud said:

More of an issue if you cause / are involved in an accident, when the absence of any liability insurance will provide the rider with significant risk?

It's ok, I don't think police can run 15mph. I shall be off like the wind.

[Graveworm]

Lord Marylebone said:

Juber said:

So this question may have been covered for for the avoidance of doubt can someone clarify...........

• E Scooters dont have insurance?
• What happens if an E Scooter or a cyclist crashed into your car and caused damage?
• Can your legal cover on your insurance take the individual to court and to claim back damages caused?
• Assuming you would need some sort of concrete evidence such as a dash cam / witness?

I can see this being a huge problem now this has been made legal.

We have had bicycles for over 100 years, and now e-bikes have become quite common over the last 5-10 years, and yet very few people are bothered about the 'no insurance' aspect.

Yet suddenly people seem to be gravely worried over e-scooters having no insurance, and I really don't understand the concern.

I would much rather have my car crashed into by an e-scooter than a bicycle of any description, but that aside, why do we think there will suddenly be more crashes on e-scooters than on bicycles?

I doubt many are bothered but the majority think bicycles should have insurance, number plates and have to pass a proficiency test. It ignores that many cyclists do have insurance and driving licences etc. It also doesn't address how impractical it would be so it is probably not an informed view but it exists.
The stopping distance on scooters is greater than bikes so, at the same speed, they are probably more likely to have an accident.

[hyphen]

Graveworm said:

Lord Marylebone said:

Juber said:

So this question may have been covered for for the avoidance of doubt can someone clarify...........

• E Scooters dont have insurance?
• What happens if an E Scooter or a cyclist crashed into your car and caused damage?
• Can your legal cover on your insurance take the individual to court and to claim back damages caused?
• Assuming you would need some sort of concrete evidence such as a dash cam / witness?

I can see this being a huge problem now this has been made legal.

We have had bicycles for over 100 years, and now e-bikes have become quite common over the last 5-10 years, and yet very few people are bothered about the 'no insurance' aspect.

Yet suddenly people seem to be gravely worried over e-scooters having no insurance, and I really don't understand the concern.

I would much rather have my car crashed into by an e-scooter than a bicycle of any description, but that aside, why do we think there will suddenly be more crashes on e-scooters than on bicycles?

I doubt many are bothered but the majority think bicycles should have insurance, number plates and have to pass a proficiency test. It ignores that many cyclists do have insurance and driving licences etc. It also doesn't address how impractical it would be so it is probably not an informed view but it exists.
The stopping distance on scooters is greater than bikes so, at the same speed, they are probably more likely to have an accident.

a lot are concerned about cycling rules, particularly as youngesters are not taking so many driving tests.