E Scooters soon to be allowed on UK roads?

[PAULJ5555]

Jamescrs said:

as I've had too many near misses due to not being seen.

You've sold it to me right there.

[Graveworm]

Jamescrs said:

I could see me using one of these for a lot of local journeys, as a previous cyclist I'd definitely be wearing a helmet whether a legal requirement or not as I've had too many near misses due to not being seen. I can see it being a fun way to get about weather permitting.

I think they should be given access to cycle lanes, not used on pavements.

I've seen these used in London on a number of occasions when I've been working down there so it feels somewhat like legislation catching up with what people are already doing anyway.

Met are seizing them in many boroughs along with £300 and 6 points. It's a fairly big risk at the moment.

[768]

They seem like a great idea for getting people out of cars in towns and cities to me.

15mph seems low for a max top speed on the roads though. I certainly don't see a need to mandate helmets any more than on a bike at such a restricted top speed.

[okgo]

768 said:

They seem like a great idea for getting people out of cars in towns and cities to me.

15mph seems low for a max top speed on the roads though. I certainly don't see a need to mandate helmets any more than on a bike at such a restricted top speed.

Helmets are not proven to make any difference to anything anyway, so I can't see them ever being law.


15mph when on one does feel quicker than it sounds, 15mph in a cycle lane and you'd be overtaking a lot of cyclists.

[RizzoTheRat]

15mph is probably quicker than about 99% of cyclists in general. I tend to cruise at around 20kph (12mph) and it's usually only e-bikes and lycra clad road racery types that overtake me. But then again I suspect the lycra clad road racery types make up a bigger proportion of cyclists in central London than they do elsewhere as you have to be a pretty keen cyclist to want to cycle there.

[Seesure]

PAULJ5555 said:

How long were you over there 2 days/2weeks. To really undertand them you need to be on the streets daily for a good lengh of time, did you survey the pedestrians to get their view, there may have been issues on other streets but you didnt see them.

I totally agree about this country and the lack of common sense and courtesy - thats without the chavs getting hold of them e.g the rise of kids doing a wheelie down the middle of the road.

Edited by PAULJ5555 on Wednesday 29th January 15:45

Both places for about a week and most days according to my phone somewhere in the region of 15k-19k steps a day... granted I didn't survey pedestrians but the overall feeling was that both parties were tolerant and understanding of each other's use of roads and pavements as well as road traffic signals.

[Graveworm]

okgo said:

768 said:

They seem like a great idea for getting people out of cars in towns and cities to me.

15mph seems low for a max top speed on the roads though. I certainly don't see a need to mandate helmets any more than on a bike at such a restricted top speed.

Helmets are not proven to make any difference to anything anyway, so I can't see them ever being law.


15mph when on one does feel quicker than it sounds, 15mph in a cycle lane and you'd be overtaking a lot of cyclists.

plenty of evidence of the benefits of wearing a cycle helmet e.g.
https://firstaidforlife.org.uk/cycle-helmets-do-th...
https://www.swov.nl/en/facts-figures/factsheet/bic...
Second is the largest and most comprehensive so far - 64,000 cycling casualties with and without helmets were compared. They estimate that the risk of severe head injury decreases by 69% and the risk of fatal head injury by 65%.
and from countries where they were made compulsory the rates of fatalities and serious injuries have fallen.
However from those countries, the reduction in cycling, means that, overall, the health benefits are not so clear. Not so sure that would apply to e-scooters unless we are looking at cutting journeys by more polluting transport.

[bluenosewrx]

I have one, drive along the cycle path from my flat in Glasgow to my work which is about 5km, fantastic bit of kit.

wear a helmet all the time and the Police are not bothered here i dont think, i would recommend it if you fancy a fun commute, mine is a 365 Pro and cost £544 delivered from Halfords.

Get about 45km of range before a charge.

[okgo]

RizzoTheRat said:

15mph is probably quicker than about 99% of cyclists in general. I tend to cruise at around 20kph (12mph) and it's usually only e-bikes and lycra clad road racery types that overtake me. But then again I suspect the lycra clad road racery types make up a bigger proportion of cyclists in central London than they do elsewhere as you have to be a pretty keen cyclist to want to cycle there.

Probably right. I am said road racing cyclist. Probably cruise low 20's (mph) in London all being well, which is faster than most, but there's a surprising amount of keen people in London, so there's always someone else going a decent pace - wouldn't be uncommon to be getting up to around 30mph and still have people capable of keeping up!

I think these days (I don't cycle much in town now, and I don't commute by bike now) probably its far more well rounded. When I started cycling from Surbiton into Kings Cross in 2011 there were not many doing it. Over the years, it has changed hugely. Boris bikes, bike lanes (none of that really when I started, I preferred it tbh, but I am not the usual cyclist so the lanes weren't designed for me) and vastly more people riding.

When I need to get somewhere within 3-4 miles now I use a hire bike, preferably an electric one (bit quicker) - otherwise I would get a cab, there are far too many sodding cabs on the road, and if more modes of transport exist to try and cut back on the number of cars on the roads more generally, I think its a positive. Tubes the same really, my hub station was Waterloo (busiest in UK) and unless you were lucky and worked on the 521 bus route, or were a fair way away and well served by tube (bank for example) then you could find yourself wasting a lot of time and money going on the tube a few stops to say, Piccadily circus - hire bikes/scooters etc would have that journey done in minutes from getting off your train. You'd probably be almost in central Soho on a scooter before you've even got on the Bakerloo line.

Edited by okgo on Wednesday 29th January 16:43

Edited by okgo on Wednesday 29th January 16:43

[BrassMan]

768 said:

They seem like a great idea for getting people out of cars in towns and cities to me.

15mph seems low for a max top speed on the roads though. I certainly don't see a need to mandate helmets any more than on a bike at such a restricted top speed.

AIUI, it's not the speed, it's rag-doll-ing and landing on your head that does the damage.

[Jack Mansfield]

I've got one of these too - the same one as bluenose! Good bit of kit, comes with lights fitted, 25 mile range, but is quite heavy.

I live in London, and sometimes use it to go all the way to work (about 4 miles - takes about 30 mins), sometimes just to the train station to speed up my commute. I've passed loads of police on it and they don't seem to care. I expect if you're being a dick on it (ie, riding on pavements) then they'd pull you up on it.

The 365 Pro is capped at 25kph, but doesn't have suspension so can get a bit jiggly if the road is bumpy. At 25kph I'd say I'm in the middle ground for speed compared to cyclists - boris bikers are usually a bit slower, but people on their proper city bikes are still usually a fair bit quicker.

I'd definitely always wear a helmet, they can feel less stable than bikes as they've got dinky wheels.

Makes so much sense to allow them in line with bikes. Traffic is genuinely painful sometimes, and a bus journey of near enough the same route takes twice as long.

[ESD1711]

Must admit, if I were venturing in to the world of electric driven things like this I’d be getting a OneWheel. Such awesome wee bits of kit, just a shame they are so expensive - every time I’ve hovered over the buy it now button for one I’ve reminded myself of the many other things which are a priority financially ahead of such a toy lol

[okgo]

ESD1711 said:

Must admit, if I were venturing in to the world of electric driven things like this I’d be getting a OneWheel. Such awesome wee bits of kit, just a shame they are so expensive - every time I’ve hovered over the buy it now button for one I’ve reminded myself of the many other things which are a priority financially ahead of such a toy lol

I was in Richmond Park the other week, riding at a fair pace, and was making no gains on a bloke on one of these. Who was on the firepath round the outside - mental. He must have been going nearly 30mph.

[Dammit]

Graveworm said:

plenty of evidence of the benefits of wearing a cycle helmet e.g.
https://firstaidforlife.org.uk/cycle-helmets-do-th...
https://www.swov.nl/en/facts-figures/factsheet/bic...
Second is the largest and most comprehensive so far - 64,000 cycling casualties with and without helmets were compared. They estimate that the risk of severe head injury decreases by 69% and the risk of fatal head injury by 65%.
and from countries where they were made compulsory the rates of fatalities and serious injuries have fallen.
However from those countries, the reduction in cycling, means that, overall, the health benefits are not so clear. Not so sure that would apply to e-scooters unless we are looking at cutting journeys by more polluting transport.

New York is considering making drivers wear helmets in order to reduce shorter journeys, which I thought was quite entertaining.

Australia proved that helmet compulsion reduced participation in cycling, and whilst as you say the overall number of injuries went down (as you'd expect, as the number of miles cycled went down) head injuries increased, as the accidents that did happen were more serious. Supposition, but this is thought to be because of the overall reduction in cycling - the motorists stopped looking for cyclists.

The conclusion is that helmets reduce the overall health benefit to the country in question as they reduce participation in cycling, and increase serious head injuries observed in the remaining cyclist population.

I am therefore fully in favour of helmets for scooter riders.

[croyde]

The main reason I won't have one is that most days the walk to and from the station is the only exercise I get.

[Hoofy]

I wonder if the limit should be a default but you can turn it off if you want extra pace. Just like when you turn on your car, the traction control etc is on by default but you can switch it off if you wish. (Insurance etc etc.)

[Graveworm]

Dammit said:

The conclusion is that helmets reduce the overall health benefit to the country in question as they reduce participation in cycling, and increase serious head injuries observed in the remaining cyclist population.
.

Actually the latest data
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/...
http://unsworks.unsw.edu.au/fapi/datastream/unswor...
is the opposite.

[Dammit]

I've just scanned those, but they don't support your conclusion - have you read them?

[Graveworm]

Dammit said:

I've just scanned those, but they don't support your conclusion - have you read them?

Yep
Conclusion of the second
Discussions regarding the appropriateness of bicycle helmet legislation are complex and
multifaceted. No single study or review can completely support or detract the introduction of
such laws. However, with regards to the hypothesis BHL deters cycling, this systematic
review failed to identify convincing and consistent evidence to support the hypothesis helmet
legislation reduces cycling.

[Foss62]

Graveworm said:

Jamescrs said:

I could see me using one of these for a lot of local journeys, as a previous cyclist I'd definitely be wearing a helmet whether a legal requirement or not as I've had too many near misses due to not being seen. I can see it being a fun way to get about weather permitting.

I think they should be given access to cycle lanes, not used on pavements.

I've seen these used in London on a number of occasions when I've been working down there so it feels somewhat like legislation catching up with what people are already doing anyway.

Met are seizing them in many boroughs along with £300 and 6 points. It's a fairly big risk at the moment.

I’ve often wondered about the points side of it. A lot of younger people in London don’t actually have driving licences, and other scooterists might be too young anyway. Can it really be correct that someone gets a much harsher punishment simply because they have a driving licence?