E Scooters soon to be allowed on UK roads?
Discussion
Graveworm said:
Graveworm said:
Whilst I don't fundamentally disagree with your suggestion. There are differences between ebikes and scooters. The former still gives some exercise and the latter has a greater stopping distance.
I saw a couple being taken away in Kingston town centre the other day, but they looked to be caught up in a blitz on regular cyclists rather than any specific targeting. It's a bit confusing there at the best of times, especially as, until recently, there were no people about. The strange thing was - cyclists quickly cottoned on but, scooters, seemed to carry on just sailing up to where they were being stopped. I saw a video on youtube a while ago where they were interviewing lots of scooter riders and asking them if they knew it was illegal, and most said 'No' with a totally bemused look on their faces as though they thought it was a prank question.
People just look at them and think "It's just a little battery powered scooter, same as an electric bike. Why would it be illegal?"
The arrival of rental e-scooters has probably caused a rise in people buying their own after seeing the rental ones out and about.
Seems that this poor lady had a poorly maintained scooter.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-53823...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-53823...
lost in espace said:
Seems that this poor lady had a poorly maintained scooter.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-53823...
From watching a number of e-scooter review and commuting videos from the last year or so, it is clear that having pneumatic tyres is an issue on scooters for some reason. They seem to suffer punctures and deflations quite often, and it can be a real pain to change a tyre or tube apparently.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-53823...
This hasn't gone unnoticed and many of the scooter manufacturers are now switching to solid tyres, and you can now buy various kinds of replacement solid tyres for existing scooters that include some form of cushioning to mimic the smoother ride of pneumatic tyres.
I would only buy a scooter with solid tyres.
Graveworm said:
Harry H said:
Personal electric mobility devices will in the future come in all shapes and sizes.
Right now we have e-bikes which are legal V e-scooters which aren't but fundamentally there's no real difference.
Wouldn't it be simpler just to legalise any motorised electric device that have a weight less than say 25kgs and a max speed whilst driven by said motor of 15mph.
That way the market can develop and evolve without having to legalise every device according to its name.
The rues and regs about how they are used don't need to change as they're already pretty much in place for push bikes.
Anything outside of this like electric motorbikes can remain in the licensed vehicle bit as they do now.
Whilst I don't fundamentally disagree with your suggestion. There are differences between ebikes and scooters. The former still gives some exercise and the latter has a greater stopping distance. Right now we have e-bikes which are legal V e-scooters which aren't but fundamentally there's no real difference.
Wouldn't it be simpler just to legalise any motorised electric device that have a weight less than say 25kgs and a max speed whilst driven by said motor of 15mph.
That way the market can develop and evolve without having to legalise every device according to its name.
The rues and regs about how they are used don't need to change as they're already pretty much in place for push bikes.
Anything outside of this like electric motorbikes can remain in the licensed vehicle bit as they do now.
I’ve used E- scooters and they stop pretty well.
Lord Marylebone said:
lost in espace said:
Seems that this poor lady had a poorly maintained scooter.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-53823...
From watching a number of e-scooter review and commuting videos from the last year or so, it is clear that having pneumatic tyres is an issue on scooters for some reason. They seem to suffer punctures and deflations quite often, and it can be a real pain to change a tyre or tube apparently.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-53823...
This hasn't gone unnoticed and many of the scooter manufacturers are now switching to solid tyres, and you can now buy various kinds of replacement solid tyres for existing scooters that include some form of cushioning to mimic the smoother ride of pneumatic tyres.
I would only buy a scooter with solid tyres.
TTmonkey said:
You hit a dropped curb lip on a scooter and the impact is far more severe to the tiny little wheel than a large bike wheel. I’d suggest they aren’t designed for that kind of obstacle, and British infrastructure isn’t designed for scooters.
You could argue that they aren't suitable for the roads and pavements in most towns and cities across the world, but they seem to be steadily increasing in popularity most places. If people found them to be difficult/dangerous to ride then I doubt they would be using them.I agree that tiny wheels aren't great for bumps and drain covers etc, but most scooters are coming with 10" wheels now which apparently helps a lot.
TTmonkey said:
Graveworm said:
Harry H said:
Personal electric mobility devices will in the future come in all shapes and sizes.
Right now we have e-bikes which are legal V e-scooters which aren't but fundamentally there's no real difference.
Wouldn't it be simpler just to legalise any motorised electric device that have a weight less than say 25kgs and a max speed whilst driven by said motor of 15mph.
That way the market can develop and evolve without having to legalise every device according to its name.
The rues and regs about how they are used don't need to change as they're already pretty much in place for push bikes.
Anything outside of this like electric motorbikes can remain in the licensed vehicle bit as they do now.
Whilst I don't fundamentally disagree with your suggestion. There are differences between ebikes and scooters. The former still gives some exercise and the latter has a greater stopping distance. Right now we have e-bikes which are legal V e-scooters which aren't but fundamentally there's no real difference.
Wouldn't it be simpler just to legalise any motorised electric device that have a weight less than say 25kgs and a max speed whilst driven by said motor of 15mph.
That way the market can develop and evolve without having to legalise every device according to its name.
The rues and regs about how they are used don't need to change as they're already pretty much in place for push bikes.
Anything outside of this like electric motorbikes can remain in the licensed vehicle bit as they do now.
I’ve used E- scooters and they stop pretty well.
TTmonkey said:
Lord Marylebone said:
lost in espace said:
Seems that this poor lady had a poorly maintained scooter.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-53823...
From watching a number of e-scooter review and commuting videos from the last year or so, it is clear that having pneumatic tyres is an issue on scooters for some reason. They seem to suffer punctures and deflations quite often, and it can be a real pain to change a tyre or tube apparently.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-53823...
This hasn't gone unnoticed and many of the scooter manufacturers are now switching to solid tyres, and you can now buy various kinds of replacement solid tyres for existing scooters that include some form of cushioning to mimic the smoother ride of pneumatic tyres.
I would only buy a scooter with solid tyres.
The rental scooters are far more substantial than the ones you can buy in shops.
JQ said:
We rented escooters in Reykjavik a few weeks ago, they had substantial front suspension and solid tyres which seemed to handle the potholes and bumping up and down curbs with ease.
The rental scooters are far more substantial than the ones you can buy in shops.
Slight correction to your post: The rental scooters are far more substantial than the ones you can buy in shops.
The e-scooters generally used by rental companies are the same as the ones you can buy in the shops, with the exception of additional GPS gubbins.
Scooter rental companies Bird and Lime have used the following models at various times:
Xiaomi M365
Ninebot-Segway ES2 and ES4
Xiaomi 1S
They are experimenting with their own 'bespoke' scooters, but in reality these are just slightly altered versions of the above models.
Most of the above scooters have suspension and the rental companies fit them with solid tyres to avoid breakdowns.
The above models, especially the M365, are easily the most popular models sold in the UK for private use.
RizzoTheRat said:
TTmonkey said:
Graveworm said:
Harry H said:
Personal electric mobility devices will in the future come in all shapes and sizes.
Right now we have e-bikes which are legal V e-scooters which aren't but fundamentally there's no real difference.
Wouldn't it be simpler just to legalise any motorised electric device that have a weight less than say 25kgs and a max speed whilst driven by said motor of 15mph.
That way the market can develop and evolve without having to legalise every device according to its name.
The rues and regs about how they are used don't need to change as they're already pretty much in place for push bikes.
Anything outside of this like electric motorbikes can remain in the licensed vehicle bit as they do now.
Whilst I don't fundamentally disagree with your suggestion. There are differences between ebikes and scooters. The former still gives some exercise and the latter has a greater stopping distance. Right now we have e-bikes which are legal V e-scooters which aren't but fundamentally there's no real difference.
Wouldn't it be simpler just to legalise any motorised electric device that have a weight less than say 25kgs and a max speed whilst driven by said motor of 15mph.
That way the market can develop and evolve without having to legalise every device according to its name.
The rues and regs about how they are used don't need to change as they're already pretty much in place for push bikes.
Anything outside of this like electric motorbikes can remain in the licensed vehicle bit as they do now.
I’ve used E- scooters and they stop pretty well.
have you actually ridden one? Most people will easily exceed 15 mph, in fact, on the road, the electric power cuts out very quickly. If it’s flat even an old fart like me is going to be doing 20-22 mph without too much effort. I’m 53, overweight, unfit, bit of a heart issue, hadn’t been on a bike in 10 plus years, but on my ebike on the road it’s easy to pull 20-22 mph without too much effort. You get motor help getting to 15mph so you’ve already saved most of the hard work, leaving you with more muscle reserve to exceed and maintain a higher speed. Even off-road I’m out performing the motors speed limit significantly.
Only uphill on the road you get a real boost to keep you from slowing down, that’s when you drop below 15mph limit and get extra boost.
And if you put in effort, 25 mph is pretty easy too on the flat. In fact, if you are fit, the 9 gears on an ebike will frustrate you at around 26mph, you’ll be looking for more gears. Your legs will be out spinning the gears.
That’s before people Illegally chip them to increase the cut out of the motor.
Lord Marylebone said:
From watching a number of e-scooter review and commuting videos from the last year or so, it is clear that having pneumatic tyres is an issue on scooters for some reason. They seem to suffer punctures and deflations quite often, and it can be a real pain to change a tyre or tube apparently.
This hasn't gone unnoticed and many of the scooter manufacturers are now switching to solid tyres, and you can now buy various kinds of replacement solid tyres for existing scooters that include some form of cushioning to mimic the smoother ride of pneumatic tyres.
I would only buy a scooter with solid tyres.
My experience is one puncture on the rear tyre in c.150miles and one year of riding. I wouldn’t call that quite often and they’re pretty robust (unless you’re hell bent on bmx style tricks with them). This hasn't gone unnoticed and many of the scooter manufacturers are now switching to solid tyres, and you can now buy various kinds of replacement solid tyres for existing scooters that include some form of cushioning to mimic the smoother ride of pneumatic tyres.
I would only buy a scooter with solid tyres.
The tyre change was a little frustrating but a trim removal tool, olive oil and a YouTube vid made short work of it.
I’d have the pneumatic tyres over the solid ones for ride comfort and quality and they seem to hold their pressure surprisingly well too.
Just a good report to chuck into the mix
Lord Marylebone said:
TTmonkey said:
You hit a dropped curb lip on a scooter and the impact is far more severe to the tiny little wheel than a large bike wheel. I’d suggest they aren’t designed for that kind of obstacle, and British infrastructure isn’t designed for scooters.
You could argue that they aren't suitable for the roads and pavements in most towns and cities across the world, but they seem to be steadily increasing in popularity most places. If people found them to be difficult/dangerous to ride then I doubt they would be using them.I agree that tiny wheels aren't great for bumps and drain covers etc, but most scooters are coming with 10" wheels now which apparently helps a lot.
Lord Marylebone said:
Slight correction to your post:
The e-scooters generally used by rental companies are the same as the ones you can buy in the shops, with the exception of additional GPS gubbins.
Scooter rental companies Bird and Lime have used the following models at various times:
Xiaomi M365
Ninebot-Segway ES2 and ES4
Xiaomi 1S
They are experimenting with their own 'bespoke' scooters, but in reality these are just slightly altered versions of the above models.
Most of the above scooters have suspension and the rental companies fit them with solid tyres to avoid breakdowns.
The above models, especially the M365, are easily the most popular models sold in the UK for private use.
I don’t think any of the scooters you listed come with suspension as standard and I haven’t seen suspension as part of the custom spec the rental companies use in the US. I think the Ninebot ones you listed come with solid tyres as standard though. The e-scooters generally used by rental companies are the same as the ones you can buy in the shops, with the exception of additional GPS gubbins.
Scooter rental companies Bird and Lime have used the following models at various times:
Xiaomi M365
Ninebot-Segway ES2 and ES4
Xiaomi 1S
They are experimenting with their own 'bespoke' scooters, but in reality these are just slightly altered versions of the above models.
Most of the above scooters have suspension and the rental companies fit them with solid tyres to avoid breakdowns.
The above models, especially the M365, are easily the most popular models sold in the UK for private use.
What I have seen is the scooters that normally collapse to make it easier to carry, are made solid. Take a look at eBay and you often see a flood of half price Ninebots that do not fold. These were made for the rental market.
I have a Ninebot max which is very similar to the xiaomi m365. The advantage of these models is that the charger is built in so it just needs plugging in. The normal rentals need a separate charger (think PC power brick) which requires more infrastructure. The better scooters also come with pneumatic tyres. I have had to reinflate mine once in 6 months.
The wheels are smaller than a bike (no s
t) so you do have to be more careful about the lines you take. But, it just means slowing down if you can’t go around a pot hole. The roads I ride my scooter on are 100 times worse than London and it’s not a problem. I took mine out for a 10 mile run last week and it’s no effort. Fortunately, the police here think I look funny and laugh and wave when they see me. I ordered my M365 pro with the puncture prevention slime preinstalled. The small wheels certainly highlight how bumpy and scarred the side roads around me in North East London are. You learn to pick your way round after crashing and banging through on your first few rides. Its easy if you slow down.
TTmonkey said:
I’ve rented scooters in various European cities. Their pathways and cycle routes are hugely better than any U.K. city. Used them in Prague, Budapest, munich, cologne, Paris, all cater for scooters with much better Facilities, smoother paths and roads, and deconfliction from traffic in all but the oldest parts of the cities.
Also many of those have wider streets (at least central Paris) though some of the riding quality is really, really dire (and I'm a fan of the ebike)Lord Marylebone said:
You could argue that they aren't suitable for the roads and pavements in most towns and cities across the world, but they seem to be steadily increasing in popularity most places. If people found them to be difficult/dangerous to ride then I doubt they would be using them.
I agree that tiny wheels aren't great for bumps and drain covers etc, but most scooters are coming with 10" wheels now which apparently helps a lot.
The original mini had 10" wheels. I agree that tiny wheels aren't great for bumps and drain covers etc, but most scooters are coming with 10" wheels now which apparently helps a lot.
TTmonkey said:
You hit a dropped curb lip on a scooter and the impact is far more severe to the tiny little wheel than a large bike wheel. I’d suggest they aren’t designed for that kind of obstacle, and British infrastructure isn’t designed for scooters.
I’ve a Peugeot e-scooter, a little Swiss-made thing that assists when you kick, so doesn’t have a hand throttle. I used it sometimes on my commute, up from London Bridge to Liverpool Street. It was quite good fun, but the little wheels were a problem on London streets.I used it on the road, not the pavements, and the many police around never once showed any interest.
At 8kg it was as light as they come, but even that was a pain to carry all the way out of the train station.
I’ll possibly get one of the bigger, more powerful ones soon, that will manage 15mph up and down hills, and that have bigger wheels and tyres, as it was quite hard work on the little one.
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