E Scooters soon to be allowed on UK roads?

[roadsmash]

monthou said:

surveyor_101 said:

All the UK schemes (as far as I know) require you to be 16 and hold a provisional as a minimum, you register and are tracked for you time.
To ride a bike there is no such requirement, also as the scooters are classed electric vehicles so are treated more like a car and so drink driving laws apply.
Thats if they are on a DFT share scheme.

For a push bike>
The maximum penalty for cycling whilst under the influence of drink or drugs is a £1,000 fine. This is also the case for careless or inconsiderate cycling. The maximum penalty for dangerous cycling is a £2,500 fine.

You need to be 14 to ride an ebike, but no licence needed.
There's no requirement to submit to a breathalyser on a pushbike or ebike. And if you refuse it can't be held against you.
No specified alcohol limit.
You'd have to try pretty hard to get convicted on a bicycle / ebike, and even if you were the consequences (of the conviction itself) would be minor (as per your post).

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/19021288.hampshire-woman-first-banned-drink-driving-e-scooter/

[JQ]

Dyffed said:

The week before Xmas I was out having a walk one afternoon with my wife .We live in Petts Wood an outer London suburb. Most of it is quite quiet but gets busy as you get close to the shopping area. As we walked along the pavement in the direction of the shops we were overtaken by two e scooters. These were at this time being ridden on the road. The first scooter was being ridden by a male. The second was being ridden by a female .( I know this next bit is a little hard to believe )But balanced in front of the female was a child aged about 3 years of ageThe child had its arms reaching up with its hands holding on to the handlebars. About 20 yards ahead was a drop in the payment at the entrance to a church car park. The female used the drop to join the pavement and continued along the pavement and round the corner where we lost sight of the riders. Im not aware of any e scooter hire firms in the area so my guess they would be private owners.I would estimate that the scooters were travelling at about 10miles an hour. It has to be one of the most irresponsible things Ive seen on the road for a long time.

You'd have a heart attack if you saw what they do elsewhere.

[unident]

roadsmash said:

monthou said:

surveyor_101 said:

All the UK schemes (as far as I know) require you to be 16 and hold a provisional as a minimum, you register and are tracked for you time.
To ride a bike there is no such requirement, also as the scooters are classed electric vehicles so are treated more like a car and so drink driving laws apply.
Thats if they are on a DFT share scheme.

For a push bike>
The maximum penalty for cycling whilst under the influence of drink or drugs is a £1,000 fine. This is also the case for careless or inconsiderate cycling. The maximum penalty for dangerous cycling is a £2,500 fine.

You need to be 14 to ride an ebike, but no licence needed.
There's no requirement to submit to a breathalyser on a pushbike or ebike. And if you refuse it can't be held against you.
No specified alcohol limit.
You'd have to try pretty hard to get convicted on a bicycle / ebike, and even if you were the consequences (of the conviction itself) would be minor (as per your post).

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/19021288.hampshire-woman-first-banned-drink-driving-e-scooter/

That’s a scooter not a bike or ebike

[Harry H]

I'd happily ride my push bike back from the station after a few after work beers. Have done many a time. Even had a few bushes leap out in front of me over the years causing a few scratches.

Not so sure about an e-scooter though. One little pot hole and with those tiny wheels it's going to be a face plant. Avoidable when sober not so much with greatly reduce reaction times. I'd like to hang on to my teeth for a few years yet.

If it wasn't for the involvement of alcohol I wouldn't be on public transport in the first place so no need for a scoot. Still in two minds about getting one.

[eldar]

Lord Marylebone said:

Dyffed said:

15521 Posts. and I don't get out much ?

He has a point though.

If I saw a woman riding along on a scooter at 10mph with a small child as a passenger, it wouldn't even come anywhere near my Top 10 of "most irresponsible things I have seen on the road for a long time".

Indeed. An unrestrained child in a car at 70 +mph is a common sight and much more dangerous.

Scare story.

[Gareth79]

Lord Marylebone said:

I think the arguments and 'bad press' around eScooters are, to a large extent, fruitless.

I could be wrong, but ultimately what will happen is:

1) eScooters will soon be legalised for private ownership/use on the public highway, and they will likely be subject to similar laws as bicycles.

2) Loads of people will buy them, as they offer an extremely cheap and convenient method of getting around urban areas and commuting.

3) People will be killed on them, squared by lorries, and ride them on the pavements, the same as what happens with bicycles right now.

4) The deaths and pavement riding will not make any difference to anything, and they will remain a popular method of transport, especially as range, handling, and ride comfort continues to improve.

5) Car/Lorry/Bus drivers will just have to accept that they now share the roads with scooters, and it will be their job not to squash people if they can possibly help it.

6) Life will continue and everyone will get used to driving on the roads surrounded by all manner of new electric vehicles and new kinds of personal electric transport devices.

I think that covers it?

Agreed. I can see them becoming popular for rail and bus commuters, since they are small and light enough to carry onto a train and use each end, and store under a desk at work. If would make lots of commuting options possible where it was previously impractical, or very time-consuming.

Hopefully any misuse/annoyance will spur on decent cycle lanes on busy routes.

[Steve Benson]

Surely incompetent people, or piss takers, will just fall off them hurt themselves and then think twice next time.

Like the good old day's of skateboards, rollerblades and BMX's?

I think people overthink things these days.

[ruggedscotty]

must have been a fast derestricted one

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9163153/M...

[eldar]

ruggedscotty said:

must have been a fast derestricted one

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9163153/M...

Rushing to collect a Darwin Award?

[stuttgartmetal]

eldar said:

MB140 said:

Oh dear

E-scooter rider given ban for drink-driving on Isle of Wight https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-55...

My only argument with this is that someone with no car licence has nothing to lose.

Interesting. Do drink drive rules apply to electric bicycles?

No.

[PF62]

stuttgartmetal said:

eldar said:

MB140 said:

Oh dear

E-scooter rider given ban for drink-driving on Isle of Wight https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-55...

My only argument with this is that someone with no car licence has nothing to lose.

Interesting. Do drink drive rules apply to electric bicycles?

No.

But what about the illegal electric bikes which don’t conform to the electric bike rules - which actually seem to make up most of the electric bikes being used.

[BobSaunders]

stuttgartmetal said:

eldar said:

MB140 said:

Oh dear

E-scooter rider given ban for drink-driving on Isle of Wight https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-55...

My only argument with this is that someone with no car licence has nothing to lose.

Interesting. Do drink drive rules apply to electric bicycles?

No.

An offence of some sort, but not drink driving.

https://www.slatergordon.co.uk/newsroom/is-it-ille...

[anonymous-user]

PF62 said:

But what about the illegal electric bikes which don’t conform to the electric bike rules - which actually seem to make up most of the electric bikes being used.

An electric bike with a power output of over 250 watts (or over 15.5mph) becomes automatically classed as a motorcycle, and is therefore subject to the usual laws on drink driving, licence, MOT, Tax, Insurance, etc.

I know a couple of people with 500watt or 1000watt ebikes (which just look exactly the same as any legal ebike) and they seem fairly confident that no one will ever question them over the legality. They stick to 15-18mph max around town and busy areas.

It's not something I would do, but I can see why it is attractive. Legality aside, they are an absolutely brilliant way of getting around. A friend bought a one 3 months ago, and he uses it all the time now instead of his car when it isn't raining. It cost £800 brand new. Max speed of 30mph and apart from a few pence to charge it, there are no costs associated with owning or riding it. He doesn't sit in any traffic jams and can park absolutely anywhere. 30 mile range on a charge with no pedalling involved. He can still pedal it if he runs our of battery or something, but that hasn't happened yet.

Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 20th January 08:42

[PF62]

Lord Marylebone said:

PF62 said:

But what about the illegal electric bikes which don’t conform to the electric bike rules - which actually seem to make up most of the electric bikes being used.

An electric bike with a power output of over 250 watts (or over 15.5mph) becomes automatically classed as a motorcycle, and is therefore subject to the usual laws on drink driving, licence, MOT, Tax, Insurance, etc.

I know a couple of people with 500watt or 1000watt ebikes (which just look exactly the same as any legal ebike) and they seem fairly confident that no one will ever question them over the legality. They stick to 15-18mph max around town and busy areas.

The issue isn't necessarily whether they use the illegal bikes in a faux legal way or not, but the risk they are placing themselves in if they ride their illegal bike home from the pub.

If there was to be an incident, and that incident may very well not be their fault - another drunk pedestrian stepping out in the road without looking, it still opens up the opportunity for the police to take a look and see if everything is in order.

If they never drink and ride then their assertion that no one will ever question them is probably correct, but if they do drink and ride then there is a risk to getting a driving ban even if it is extremely low.

[anonymous-user]

PF62 said:

The issue isn't necessarily whether they use the illegal bikes in a faux legal way or not, but the risk they are placing themselves in if they ride their illegal bike home from the pub.

If there was to be an incident, and that incident may very well not be their fault - another drunk pedestrian stepping out in the road without looking, it still opens up the opportunity for the police to take a look and see if everything is in order.

If they never drink and ride then their assertion that no one will ever question them is probably correct, but if they do drink and ride then there is a risk to getting a driving ban even if it is extremely low.

I totally agree.

I've had this discussion with them about the whole "what if" scenario, and they say they have weighed up the risk and have decided to proceed anyway.

I wouldn't do it purely for the risk. To me it seems like an easy ticket for the police. They see you riding at what is obviously more than 15mph, stop you, quickly realise the bike is way faster than it should be, and then proceed to give you a whole ream of tickets for no insurance, no MOT, no tax, no helmet, no licence etc.

[Harry H]

Lord Marylebone said:

PF62 said:

The issue isn't necessarily whether they use the illegal bikes in a faux legal way or not, but the risk they are placing themselves in if they ride their illegal bike home from the pub.

If there was to be an incident, and that incident may very well not be their fault - another drunk pedestrian stepping out in the road without looking, it still opens up the opportunity for the police to take a look and see if everything is in order.

If they never drink and ride then their assertion that no one will ever question them is probably correct, but if they do drink and ride then there is a risk to getting a driving ban even if it is extremely low.

I totally agree.

I've had this discussion with them about the whole "what if" scenario, and they say they have weighed up the risk and have decided to proceed anyway.

I wouldn't do it purely for the risk. To me it seems like an easy ticket for the police. They see you riding at what is obviously more than 15mph, stop you, quickly realise the bike is way faster than it should be, and then proceed to give you a whole ream of tickets for no insurance, no MOT, no tax, no helmet, no licence etc.

You've only got to stand on the Embankment in London for a few minutes to know that the majority of E-scoots and Electric bikes are way faster than the 15 mph rule. Was doing the limit of 20 mph the other day on the motorbike and an e-scoot went past at least 40mph.

Gotta be seriously brave or stupid to do 40mph on a scoot with 9 inch wheels. I'd personally buy a speed limited one just to keep me in check.

[monthou]

Lord Marylebone said:

I totally agree.

I've had this discussion with them about the whole "what if" scenario, and they say they have weighed up the risk and have decided to proceed anyway.

I wouldn't do it purely for the risk. To me it seems like an easy ticket for the police. They see you riding at what is obviously more than 15mph, stop you, quickly realise the bike is way faster than it should be, and then proceed to give you a whole ream of tickets for no insurance, no MOT, no tax, no helmet, no licence etc.

I ride my pushbike and my wife's legal ebike (when I can get my hands on it) at 'obviously more than 15mph' regularly. No laws brioken, no police interest. I'm not sure how the police would be able to establish my top speed if stopped - 'Gissa go mister'?
Someone riding dangerously at 30mph+, or after a crash, they might take an ebike for inspection.
The only way I'd go to the pub on an ebike though is on a nice day when I can sit outside in full view of it!

[JQ]

Lord Marylebone said:

and can park absolutely anywhere.

That's the bit that worries me - for both e-bikes and e-scooters. I have a couple of rather expensive bicycles and I wouldn't dream of leaving them outside a shop, or anywhere unattended for that matter. Will people really leave a £500 scooter or £1,000 ebike in the street. Commuting is fine, workers often have secure storage, but just nipping out - will they not become the latest target for thieves? How do you even adequately secure a scooter?

[jakesmith]

My escoot is one of the best ones and is limited. Yesterday I was going down a steep hill and hit 30kph, it’s limited to 25 but gravity took it. It was scary and no way would it be safe to go faster purely based on the brakes

[untakenname]

Lord Marylebone said:

An electric bike with a power output of over 250 watts (or over 15.5mph) becomes automatically classed as a motorcycle, and is therefore subject to the usual laws on drink driving, licence, MOT, Tax, Insurance, etc.

I know a couple of people with 500watt or 1000watt ebikes (which just look exactly the same as any legal ebike) and they seem fairly confident that no one will ever question them over the legality. They stick to 15-18mph max around town and busy areas.

It's not something I would do, but I can see why it is attractive. Legality aside, they are an absolutely brilliant way of getting around. A friend bought a one 3 months ago, and he uses it all the time now instead of his car when it isn't raining. It cost £800 brand new. Max speed of 30mph and apart from a few pence to charge it, there are no costs associated with owning or riding it. He doesn't sit in any traffic jams and can park absolutely anywhere. 30 mile range on a charge with no pedalling involved. He can still pedal it if he runs our of battery or something, but that hasn't happened yet.

Edited by Lord Marylebone on Wednesday 20th January 08:42

Lots of times the Chinese bikes are 750W but are limited to 250W via the firmware, I wonder with bikes like these are they actually ever legal in the eyes of the law?
It's a bit like with 2 stroke mopeds back in the day which needed restrictor valves fitted to make them complaint with L plates, I doubt any police dyno'd them so everyone removed the restrictors.