E Scooters soon to be allowed on UK roads?

[Shnozz]

This is the U.K. solution is it? I would imagine they will sell less than 1% of the volume they sell of the illegal ones in use.

I have an escooter I use legally at my house abroad. I’d happily use one in my U.K. home in the middle of a city. Mine is lightweight, easy to carry and hop aboard, cost a few hundred euro, doesn’t need to have insurance and is just so easy to hop on for a short trip in place of the car.

This ‘solution’ manages to somehow miss the mark in every way possible it’s laughable.

[OutInTheShed]

I'm surprised a 'stand-up moped' can be legal, but then again you can road-register a modern trials bike which doesn't really have a seat as such.

35kg is just about light enough to be easily stolen.

[monthou]

eldar said:

Graveworm said:

It's very likely, after the imperial & EU studies and recommendations, no matter what a future legal escooter looks like, helmets will be compulsory.

Edited by Graveworm on Tuesday 16th April 14:16

Compulsory for cycles and ecycles, as well, one hopes.

No chance. And nothing to do with this topic.

[Shnozz]

OutInTheShed said:

I'm surprised a 'stand-up moped' can be legal, but then again you can road-register a modern trials bike which doesn't really have a seat as such.

35kg is just about light enough to be easily stolen.

I wouldn't worry about theft. No one will buy them in the first place.

Whilst European streets are awash with people using these to free up the roads as well as being environmentally friendly as a by-product, good old Blighty is doing what we do best and legislating the fook out of it to the point the concept is wholly redundant. Waving fists at clouds cos a few folks in Birmingham or some other city have driven them like bellends (see also 99% of cyclists).

At a time when people are complaining at the cost of living, the cost of public transport and at the same time wanting to see environmentally friendly schemes, it seems very much a gift horse looked in the mouth.

[SpidersWeb]

Shnozz said:

it seems very much a gift horse looked in the mouth.

There is no win for politicians legalising them with the absence of restrictions that people either want and the impossibility of the police to check on them.

Does the population want those riding them to be insured - of course they do, but will those riding them get insurance, not a chance, not a cat in hell's chance.

Does the population want those to be riding them to be at least slightly responsible, so adults - of course they do, but will those kids riding them stop, not a chance, not a cat in hell's chance.

Does the population want them ridden on pavements, through shopping centres or elsewhere where they are a nuisance - of course they don't, but will those riding them in those places stop, not a chance, not a cat in hell's chance.

Does the population want them limited in speed - of course they do, but will those owning them stop modifying them to go faster, not a chance, not a cat in hell's chance.

And as for the police checking that the person riding has insurance, is an adult, hasn't modified it, and wants to stop them riding like an idiot - well the police have demonstrated such a lot of success stopping people riding illegal electric motorbikes haven't they.

So for a politician any legalisation is a lose / lose opportunity - the chavs using them illegally don't vote, and those who do vote would in the most part not be happy about the legalisation.

[Shnozz]

I don’t disagree with anything you say. I just see it as a massively missed opportunity that the younger people are more than willing to embrace.

What’s been legalised on the back of it is something no one will buy for a plethora of reasons to the extent it’s laughable.

[SpidersWeb]

What did you expect politicians to do? Say 'fk it, do whatever you want'?

As for young people using them - well that's a significant part of the problem.

[eldar]

SpidersWeb said:

What did you expect politicians to do? Say 'fk it, do whatever you want'?

As for young people using them - well that's a significant part of the problem.

The same rules as electric bicycles?

[Graveworm]

Shnozz said:

OutInTheShed said:

I'm surprised a 'stand-up moped' can be legal, but then again you can road-register a modern trials bike which doesn't really have a seat as such.

35kg is just about light enough to be easily stolen.

I wouldn't worry about theft. No one will buy them in the first place.

Whilst European streets are awash with people using these to free up the roads as well as being environmentally friendly as a by-product, good old Blighty is doing what we do best and legislating the fook out of it to the point the concept is wholly redundant. Waving fists at clouds cos a few folks in Birmingham or some other city have driven them like bellends (see also 99% of cyclists).

At a time when people are complaining at the cost of living, the cost of public transport and at the same time wanting to see environmentally friendly schemes, it seems very much a gift horse looked in the mouth.

The evidence is that the vast majority using scooters in those European streets, are not freeing up the roads as they moved from walking or cycling to them. That also is worse for the environment and those using them.


The justification put forward for their introduction, here, by the committee who advocated for them, accepted there would be negligible congestion, health or environmental benefits. They had the evidence of modal change. The justification was vehicles for people who were too poor to afford to get a driving licence and an alternative to public transport during the pandemic.

The UK has only legislated (Secondary legislation no changes to acts,to introduce the trials. Those who want them to be legal want more legislation. Other countries and the EU are the ones legislating to introduce restrictions to deal with the issues they are causing.

Edited by Graveworm on Tuesday 16th April 21:42

[SpidersWeb]

eldar said:

SpidersWeb said:

What did you expect politicians to do? Say 'fk it, do whatever you want'?

The same rules as electric bicycles?

The rules for electric bikes which are widely ignored by users, and breaches of which are completely ignored by the police.

[eldar]

SpidersWeb said:

eldar said:

SpidersWeb said:

What did you expect politicians to do? Say 'fk it, do whatever you want'?

The same rules as electric bicycles?

The rules for electric bikes which are widely ignored by users, and breaches of which are completely ignored by the police.

Simple. Ban electric bikes then.

[Shnozz]

eldar said:

SpidersWeb said:

What did you expect politicians to do? Say 'fk it, do whatever you want'?

As for young people using them - well that's a significant part of the problem.

The same rules as electric bicycles?

Far too simple.

Legislation is what we need. Rules. Lots of rules.

So now we just will only see the illegally ridden ones and no law abiding person embracing them. Shame but the way of the U.K.

[lancslad58]

SpidersWeb said:

There is no win for politicians legalising them with the absence of restrictions that people either want and the impossibility of the police to check on them.

Does the population want those riding them to be insured - of course they do, but will those riding them get insurance, not a chance, not a cat in hell's chance.

Does the population want those to be riding them to be at least slightly responsible, so adults - of course they do, but will those kids riding them stop, not a chance, not a cat in hell's chance.

Does the population want them ridden on pavements, through shopping centres or elsewhere where they are a nuisance - of course they don't, but will those riding them in those places stop, not a chance, not a cat in hell's chance.

Does the population want them limited in speed - of course they do, but will those owning them stop modifying them to go faster, not a chance, not a cat in hell's chance.

And as for the police checking that the person riding has insurance, is an adult, hasn't modified it, and wants to stop them riding like an idiot - well the police have demonstrated such a lot of success stopping people riding illegal electric motorbikes haven't they.

So for a politician any legalisation is a lose / lose opportunity - the chavs using them illegally don't vote, and those who do vote would in the most part not be happy about the legalisation.

Just like modifying a car to go faster.........

[SpidersWeb]

lancslad58 said:

SpidersWeb said:

Does the population want them limited in speed - of course they do, but will those owning them stop modifying them to go faster, not a chance, not a cat in hell's chance.

Just like modifying a car to go faster.........

Ummm... no - there is no legislation that sets a maximum speed for a car, which there is for electric scooters (and the powered assistance for electric bikes), so modifying a car to go faster is a false analogy.

[heebeegeetee]

eldar said:

SpidersWeb said:

eldar said:

SpidersWeb said:

What did you expect politicians to do? Say 'fk it, do whatever you want'?

The same rules as electric bicycles?

The rules for electric bikes which are widely ignored by users, and breaches of which are completely ignored by the police.

Simple. Ban electric bikes then.

What electric bikes are you referring to? If you mean electric motorbikes, they are already effectively banned (in the way they're being used).

[heebeegeetee]

Graveworm said:

Shnozz said:

OutInTheShed said:

I'm surprised a 'stand-up moped' can be legal, but then again you can road-register a modern trials bike which doesn't really have a seat as such.

35kg is just about light enough to be easily stolen.

I wouldn't worry about theft. No one will buy them in the first place.

Whilst European streets are awash with people using these to free up the roads as well as being environmentally friendly as a by-product, good old Blighty is doing what we do best and legislating the fook out of it to the point the concept is wholly redundant. Waving fists at clouds cos a few folks in Birmingham or some other city have driven them like bellends (see also 99% of cyclists).

At a time when people are complaining at the cost of living, the cost of public transport and at the same time wanting to see environmentally friendly schemes, it seems very much a gift horse looked in the mouth.

The evidence is that the vast majority using scooters in those European streets, are not freeing up the roads as they moved from walking or cycling to them. That also is worse for the environment and those using them.


The justification put forward for their introduction, here, by the committee who advocated for them, accepted there would be negligible congestion, health or environmental benefits. They had the evidence of modal change. The justification was vehicles for people who were too poor to afford to get a driving licence and an alternative to public transport during the pandemic.

The UK has only legislated (Secondary legislation no changes to acts,to introduce the trials. Those who want them to be legal want more legislation. Other countries and the EU are the ones legislating to introduce restrictions to deal with the issues they are causing.

Edited by Graveworm on Tuesday 16th April 21:42

Based on the evidence of my own peepers, the majority of scooter users in Europe are using cycle paths and active travel infra, of which there is plenty.

In UK I see the advantage would be young people being able to travel independently, and not transported everywhere by motor vehicle in the company of parents or elders.

[Shnozz]

The problem is that it’s now only those who disregard the law who are riding them in the U.K.. If they are willing to disregard the law then there is a disproportional amount of the same people who will disregard any law to restrict speed etc.

Again, look to Europe and my experience has been most are non-‘modified and used as simple transport. A certificate of conformity is all that’s needed for safety spec in terms of both limited speed and quality control largely for battery safety. The biggest issue from what I can see is the amount of hire ones dumped across pavements or elsewhere.

It’s easy to establish a modified one as it pelts along at 30mph. Stop it, confiscate it, fine the rider and make them walk home.

Introducing this thing is a pointless exercise, and I think everyone knows that but it’s a gesture to look progressive rather than just close the door altogether.

[SpidersWeb]

heebeegeetee said:

eldar said:

SpidersWeb said:

eldar said:

SpidersWeb said:

What did you expect politicians to do? Say 'fk it, do whatever you want'?

The same rules as electric bicycles?

The rules for electric bikes which are widely ignored by users, and breaches of which are completely ignored by the police.

Simple. Ban electric bikes then.

What electric bikes are you referring to? If you mean electric motorbikes, they are already effectively banned (in the way they're being used).

I don't only mean the electric motorbikes used by chavs to kill themselves, but also all the illegal 'twist and go, with no pedalling' electric bikes used by the food couriers that plague every town.

Edited by SpidersWeb on Wednesday 17th April 10:47

[SpidersWeb]

Shnozz said:

It’s easy to establish a modified one as it pelts along at 30mph.

Yes, that bit is easy.

Shnozz said:

Stop it, confiscate it, fine the rider and make them walk home.

How do you propose the police stop the chav on the electric scooter doing 30mph?

If the police see an illegal electric motorbike they run in the opposite direction for fear of being accused of something contributory when the chavs kill themselves, so what makes you think the police will do anything different with electric scooters?

[heebeegeetee]

SpidersWeb said:

heebeegeetee said:

eldar said:

SpidersWeb said:

eldar said:

SpidersWeb said:

What did you expect politicians to do? Say 'fk it, do whatever you want'?

The same rules as electric bicycles?

The rules for electric bikes which are widely ignored by users, and breaches of which are completely ignored by the police.

Simple. Ban electric bikes then.

What electric bikes are you referring to? If you mean electric motorbikes, they are already effectively banned (in the way they're being used).

I don't only mean the electric motorbikes used by chavs to kill themselves, but also all the illegal 'twist and go, with no pedalling' electric bikes used by the food couriers that plague every town.

Edited by SpidersWeb on Wednesday 17th April 10:47

OK, but they are already banned, in answer to the 'ban them' post.