20 MPH London

[jshell]

20mph throughout Edinburgh. We reckon its to piss drivers off AND increase congestion/emissions in order that they have to 'do something' about it and ban cars from the city centre. Manipulation with no +ve effects!

Everyone bar a few speed-Nazis ignore it.

[babelfish]

QuadCamCapri said:

For miles around me in Middlesex it's now 20mph, and just round the corner from me is a Driving Test Centre.
So is it now possible to learn and pass your driving test having never done more than 20mph ?

A friend who is a manager of driving test examiners told me some time ago this is causing them big issues.

[2gins]

babelfish said:

QuadCamCapri said:

For miles around me in Middlesex it's now 20mph, and just round the corner from me is a Driving Test Centre.
So is it now possible to learn and pass your driving test having never done more than 20mph ?

A friend who is a manager of driving test examiners told me some time ago this is causing them big issues.

Similar subject, I did my IAM with the south London group around Banstead a few years ago, it was mainly 30/40 with a little bit of 50 in which you do 40 anyway because of the road layout and other traffic. I learned a lot regardless but it was rather frustrating and I wouldn't bother now, I'd look for group further out or look to a more specialist training over a day / weekend. You can probably take and pass a test in these conditions but you can't achieve the basic level of competence that the test is designed to examine.

[oyster]

Mr_Megalomaniac said:

viggyp said:

Now don't own a car but will be looking for a runaround when I leave this awful crapital chitty.

And this is the most common result. Assessing most global cities, the policies drive people out. You can see the same in the US where Californian lefties are all moving to deep Red Texas because of the nut jobs who have run Cali into the ground with regard to communities, cost, and living standards.
Indeed, just over a year ago I moved into Kent (by a factor of 100meters) partly due to cost of buying and largely due to not wanting to live under the 'part & parcel' wkjob's yolk anymore.

Smiljan said:

History shows, these goals will probably lead to the plebs (us) being herded like cattle into public transport while the rich and politically powerful swan about in cars still on those lovely empty roads. The congestion charge zone hasn't worked precisely because the wealthy don't care about a piffling charge to use it.

Edited by Smiljan on Monday 24th February 13:00

Exactly - the living standards continue to deteriorate and then they'll start moaning about why people are moving their offices to Reading and Guildford, etc. Then surely they'll made some ghastly "community" art project around a derelict area and waste more taxpayer money and failing to address any real social issues (like crime!).

But none of that is actually materialising is it?
London population continues to go up and up.

For every car-owning family that moves out to Kent/Surrey/Essex etc, several non car-owning younger people move into London.

[oyster]

Jimmy Recard said:

markyb_lcy said:

What has knife and gun crime got to do with it?

Should the whole of the region’s projects not related to knife and gun crime completely stop dead until knife and gun crime isn’t going up?

A guy at work was done for speeding and used the classic line "It must mean they've solved all the other crimes."

As if no new crimes should be investigated if there are any outstanding ones. It's an extraordinary point of view

I hope you questioned whether he could only do one task at a time at work?

[Solocle]

It's really the wrong way around, IMO. 20 mph belongs on residential streets and more minor roads. TfL administered roads are more arterial routes. E.g the A3211 - I've cycled on that road before, and no doubt a 20 mph speed limit would make it more pleasant. But it's a dual carriageway, nobody's going to observe 20. It's not even like I had a huge problem dealing with an idiot emerging into my path from White Lion Hill... I overtook them!

[C70R]

jshell said:

20mph throughout Edinburgh. We reckon its to piss drivers off AND increase congestion/emissions in order that they have to 'do something' about it and ban cars from the city centre. Manipulation with no +ve effects!

Everyone bar a few speed-Nazis ignore it.

I can't imagine how sad life must be to live with such a crazy persecution complex.

[jshell]

C70R said:

jshell said:

20mph throughout Edinburgh. We reckon its to piss drivers off AND increase congestion/emissions in order that they have to 'do something' about it and ban cars from the city centre. Manipulation with no +ve effects!

Everyone bar a few speed-Nazis ignore it.

I can't imagine how sad life must be to live with such a crazy persecution complex.

Yeah, don't. The car hating council in Edinburgh are very clear about their aims, how they approach it and how they'll force cars out of the city. It's not persecution when it's well documented...

[2gins]

C70R said:

I can't imagine how sad life must be to live with such a crazy persecution complex.

It's well documented in just about every urban council transport policy document I've seen over the last 5 years that private car ownership and use is right at the bottom of the list of priorities, and to be actively discouraged.

How individuals feel about that is another matter, but the fact is that it is happening all over the country.

[Dave Hedgehog]

oyster said:

Why is knife and gun crime of any relevance?

because the dick head mayor has spent billions on his war against the car whilst overseeing a massive increase in knife crime and death from knife crime and done fk all about it

[Dave Hedgehog]

jshell said:

20mph throughout Edinburgh. We reckon its to piss drivers off AND increase congestion/emissions in order that they have to 'do something' about it and ban cars from the city centre. Manipulation with no +ve effects!

Everyone bar a few speed-Nazis ignore it.

this is exactly the purpose of it

even the police totally ignore the 20 zones in the areas i drive in london

[markyb_lcy]

Dave Hedgehog said:

even the police totally ignore the 20 zones in the areas i drive in london

Yep. It does present somewhat of an awkward situation when you're being tailgated by the BIB (not with the blues going) doing 25ish in a 20 and you can clearly see they want you to shift along even quicker. Half of me just wants to do it and the other half is screaming "IT'S A TRAAAAAAP!"

[Dave Hedgehog]

i love the corrupt spin they put on this, reversed :

Speed is NOT a factor in 66% of accidents in london

over 80% of Londoners feel that too much traffic, and traffic travelling too fast, are NOT major barriers to walking

Observed speed impacts – 20mph schemes - avg reduction of less than 2mph which is near statistically insignificant in relation to road deaths

[jshell]

Dave Hedgehog said:

jshell said:

20mph throughout Edinburgh. We reckon its to piss drivers off AND increase congestion/emissions in order that they have to 'do something' about it and ban cars from the city centre. Manipulation with no +ve effects!

Everyone bar a few speed-Nazis ignore it.

this is exactly the purpose of it

even the police totally ignore the 20 zones in the areas i drive in london

To be fair, it's an open secret that the (fantastic) Edinburgh police won't prosecute you if you stay under 30 in a 20...

[C70R]

jshell said:

C70R said:

jshell said:

20mph throughout Edinburgh. We reckon its to piss drivers off AND increase congestion/emissions in order that they have to 'do something' about it and ban cars from the city centre. Manipulation with no +ve effects!

Everyone bar a few speed-Nazis ignore it.

I can't imagine how sad life must be to live with such a crazy persecution complex.

Yeah, don't. The car hating council in Edinburgh are very clear about their aims, how they approach it and how they'll force cars out of the city. It's not persecution when it's well documented...

I'm sure you can share a document that explains verbatim how their goal is to "force cars out of the city".

[C70R]

Dave Hedgehog said:

oyster said:

Why is knife and gun crime of any relevance?

because the dick head mayor has spent billions on his war against the car whilst overseeing a massive increase in knife crime and death from knife crime and done fk all about it

I feel quite sorry for people like you.

If you look at the health of over 8 million people (relative to the 150 homicides in London in total in 2019) as a waste of money, there's no helping you.

Yes, any avoidable death is a bad thing. But you're letting the Daily Mail wind you up too much when it comes to knife and gun crime.

[jshell]

C70R said:

jshell said:

C70R said:

jshell said:

20mph throughout Edinburgh. We reckon its to piss drivers off AND increase congestion/emissions in order that they have to 'do something' about it and ban cars from the city centre. Manipulation with no +ve effects!

Everyone bar a few speed-Nazis ignore it.

I can't imagine how sad life must be to live with such a crazy persecution complex.

Yeah, don't. The car hating council in Edinburgh are very clear about their aims, how they approach it and how they'll force cars out of the city. It's not persecution when it's well documented...

I'm sure you can share a document that explains verbatim how their goal is to "force cars out of the city".

I don't have to, it's crystal clear to anyone who lives there. They have used every method at their disposal to create congestion. Interrupted traffic flow through the city, extended bus stops out to prevent passing buses, blocked intuitive turns to prevent clear flow in and out of the city, introduced traffic lights to previously free-flowing roundabouts, forced cars into narrow corridors, parking restrictions where none are needed, introduced retarded 20mph zones, tried to introduce bus lanes to Queensferry road which would have been beyond catestrophic - only scrapped as the analysis said the buses would be stranded in the chaos of single lane sections. You'd have to be devoid of brain cells to fail to clearly see how they have choked a city. They even introduced trams despite being told by the bank, HBOS, that 1. they had underestimated spend by over 50% and 2. that no tram system in Europe pays for itself. Guess what, they had underestimated the spend by over 50% but pressed ahead. Businesses destroyed, chaos ensues, good job Gromit.

[C70R]

jshell said:

C70R said:

jshell said:

C70R said:

jshell said:

20mph throughout Edinburgh. We reckon its to piss drivers off AND increase congestion/emissions in order that they have to 'do something' about it and ban cars from the city centre. Manipulation with no +ve effects!

Everyone bar a few speed-Nazis ignore it.

I can't imagine how sad life must be to live with such a crazy persecution complex.

Yeah, don't. The car hating council in Edinburgh are very clear about their aims, how they approach it and how they'll force cars out of the city. It's not persecution when it's well documented...

I'm sure you can share a document that explains verbatim how their goal is to "force cars out of the city".

I don't have to, it's crystal clear to anyone who lives there.

I thought you'd say that.

[jshell]

C70R said:

jshell said:

C70R said:

jshell said:

C70R said:

jshell said:

20mph throughout Edinburgh. We reckon its to piss drivers off AND increase congestion/emissions in order that they have to 'do something' about it and ban cars from the city centre. Manipulation with no +ve effects!

Everyone bar a few speed-Nazis ignore it.

I can't imagine how sad life must be to live with such a crazy persecution complex.

Yeah, don't. The car hating council in Edinburgh are very clear about their aims, how they approach it and how they'll force cars out of the city. It's not persecution when it's well documented...

I'm sure you can share a document that explains verbatim how their goal is to "force cars out of the city".

I don't have to, it's crystal clear to anyone who lives there.

I thought you'd say that.

Sure, whatever. You can go to the Council website and fill your boots with the traffic plans and city centre plans - it's all there, well documented and freely available. The Scotsman and Evening News continually report on it as do their letters pages. I have to live through it, so follow it closely. The traffic plans together with the 700-1100 new houses adjacent to one of the main arterial routes will cause utter gridlock.

[oyster]

Dave Hedgehog said:

oyster said:

Why is knife and gun crime of any relevance?

because the dick head mayor has spent billions on his war against the car whilst overseeing a massive increase in knife crime and death from knife crime and done fk all about it

I'm no fan of the current London mayor at all, but have you any evidence of the below statements you make?

Statement 1: He has spent billions on his war against the car? Can you provide any links to show this?
Statement 2: He has done f-all about knife crime. Again, can you provide links?