Emergency legislation - information and commentary
Discussion
unident said:
We’ve had this crappy lockdown for 11 months on and off. Why is everyone so keen to drag it out longer? I’d like to go to the pub again, I’d like the TT and Irish Road Racing to come back so my former teammates and opponents can get back to earning a crust, I’d like to be able to go into a shop without a mask on, I’d like to do things that are getting further away because smart arses want to show how clever they are.
You're an idiot if you think people traveling to exercise outdoors makes any significant difference to the length of the lockdown. What maters is hospital capacity and transmission rates. There's little we could do about the first other than prioritise vaccinations for those who are most likely to spend a long while in hospital, but that risks increased deaths. Transmission rates are driven by infected people meeting indoors. Perhaps having an effective track and trace system, along with suitable financial support (perhaps pay them 80% of their wage rather than SSP) for those asked to isolate would mean more than a fifth of people actually did it. The poor state we're in can be levelled almost entirely at our government and their cronies, not the public.Gribs said:
You're an idiot if you think people traveling to exercise outdoors makes any significant difference to the length of the lockdown. What maters is hospital capacity and transmission rates. There's little we could do about the first other than prioritise vaccinations for those who are most likely to spend a long while in hospital, but that risks increased deaths. Transmission rates are driven by infected people meeting indoors. Perhaps having an effective track and trace system, along with suitable financial support (perhaps pay them 80% of their wage rather than SSP) for those asked to isolate would mean more than a fifth of people actually did it. The poor state we're in can be levelled almost entirely at our government and their cronies, not the public.
So all these people cramming into outdoor spaces like they did last summer on beaches, beauty spots etc made no difference at all to anything. I’m not disputing that effective systems would be good too, but it would be nice if individuals took some ownership of it too, rather than sticking it ot the man, Becca’s edit makes them look tough on PH. Nice insult again. Good to see you’re keeping up the approach
unident said:
So all these people cramming into outdoor spaces like they did last summer on beaches, beauty spots etc made no difference at all to anything. I’m not disputing that effective systems would be good too, but it would be nice if individuals took some ownership of it too, rather than sticking it ot the man, Becca’s edit makes them look tough on PH.
Nice insult again. Good to see you’re keeping up the approach
That is correct yes. Nice insult again. Good to see you’re keeping up the approach
Professor Mark Woolhouse professor of infectious disease epidemiology at the University of Edinburgh speaking to the Science and Technology Committee said:
Over the summer we were treated to all this on the television news and pictures of crowded beaches and there was an outcry about this.
There were no outbreaks linked to crowded beaches. There’s never been a Covid-19 outbreak linked to a beach ever anywhere in the world to the best of my knowledge.
Cold said:
unident said:
So all these people cramming into outdoor spaces like they did last summer on beaches, beauty spots etc made no difference at all to anything. I’m not disputing that effective systems would be good too, but it would be nice if individuals took some ownership of it too, rather than sticking it ot the man, Becca’s edit makes them look tough on PH.
Nice insult again. Good to see you’re keeping up the approach
That is correct yes. Nice insult again. Good to see you’re keeping up the approach
Professor Mark Woolhouse professor of infectious disease epidemiology at the University of Edinburgh speaking to the Science and Technology Committee said:
Over the summer we were treated to all this on the television news and pictures of crowded beaches and there was an outcry about this.
There were no outbreaks linked to crowded beaches. There’s never been a Covid-19 outbreak linked to a beach ever anywhere in the world to the best of my knowledge.
unident said:
Great, that’s his opinion and he even goes so far as to clarify that it’s “to the best of his knowledge”. I’ll defer to that knowledge though.
I would suggest that he has better knowledge of the subject than you - or me. However, if you know of Covid outbreaks linked to public attendance of beaches then post them up. We could all do with being informed. unident said:
Gribs said:
You're an idiot if you think people traveling to exercise outdoors makes any significant difference to the length of the lockdown. What maters is hospital capacity and transmission rates. There's little we could do about the first other than prioritise vaccinations for those who are most likely to spend a long while in hospital, but that risks increased deaths. Transmission rates are driven by infected people meeting indoors. Perhaps having an effective track and trace system, along with suitable financial support (perhaps pay them 80% of their wage rather than SSP) for those asked to isolate would mean more than a fifth of people actually did it. The poor state we're in can be levelled almost entirely at our government and their cronies, not the public.
So all these people cramming into outdoor spaces like they did last summer on beaches, beauty spots etc made no difference at all to anything. I’m not disputing that effective systems would be good too, but it would be nice if individuals took some ownership of it too, rather than sticking it ot the man, Becca’s edit makes them look tough on PH. Nice insult again. Good to see you’re keeping up the approach
Cold said:
unident said:
Great, that’s his opinion and he even goes so far as to clarify that it’s “to the best of his knowledge”. I’ll defer to that knowledge though.
I would suggest that he has better knowledge of the subject than you - or me. However, if you know of Covid outbreaks linked to public attendance of beaches then post them up. We could all do with being informed. unident said:
Read my comment that you quoted again and then ask yourself why you’re still trying to pick an argument.
Read his comment and note that despite it being out in the ether for a little while no other scientist or research body has called it out with conflicting information or facts. Then ask yourself why you are unwilling to accept it as being true. Cold said:
unident said:
Read my comment that you quoted again and then ask yourself why you’re still trying to pick an argument.
Read his comment and note that despite it being out in the ether for a little while no other scientist or research body has called it out with conflicting information or facts. Then ask yourself why you are unwilling to accept it as being true. unident said:
Great, that’s his opinion and he even goes so far as to clarify that it’s “to the best of his knowledge”. I’ll defer to that knowledge though.
RSTurboPaul said:
Is the only possible outcome of Covid death? I’ve already deferred to the comment posted elsewhere, despite another trying to continue to pick an argument where none exists. However, I stand by my question to you.
Maybe post the confirmed case volumes and it’ll be a more compelling argument. Who knows, I may well defer to you on that.
unident said:
Great, that’s his opinion and he even goes so far as to clarify that it’s “to the best of his knowledge”. I’ll defer to that knowledge though.
Selective quoting there Unident. What he is quoted as saying was:-"Over the summer we were treated to all this on the television news and pictures of crowded beaches and there was an outcry about this.
There were no outbreaks linked to crowded beaches. There’s never been a Covid-19 outbreak linked to a beach ever anywhere in the world to the best of my knowledge."
CanAm said:
unident said:
Great, that’s his opinion and he even goes so far as to clarify that it’s “to the best of his knowledge”. I’ll defer to that knowledge though.
Selective quoting there Unident. What he is quoted as saying was:-"Over the summer we were treated to all this on the television news and pictures of crowded beaches and there was an outcry about this.
There were no outbreaks linked to crowded beaches. There’s never been a Covid-19 outbreak linked to a beach ever anywhere in the world to the best of my knowledge."
I will defer to his knowledge. That means that I’ll accept that he knows more than me and is right and I’m not. That means that he is an expert and so has more knowledge about this than me. That means that he is right.
Now, you can all continue to try to create an argument where none exists, but I’ll repeat. I am deferring to his knowledge as an expert and accepting that he is right.
Is that clear, or would someone like to come back and tell me I’m wrong?
unident said:
Now, you can all continue to try to create an argument where none exists ...
Packed beaches in summer ? Largely irrelevant because this is not summer and the virus is more transmissible in winter.Wasn't your point about people travelling and exercising/ being in large groups ?
There was a spike in cases around Cheltenham following The Cheltenham Festival, whether you can prove that was due to the festival taking place is another matter.
unident said:
RSTurboPaul said:
Is the only possible outcome of Covid death? I’ve already deferred to the comment posted elsewhere, despite another trying to continue to pick an argument where none exists. However, I stand by my question to you.
Maybe post the confirmed case volumes and it’ll be a more compelling argument. Who knows, I may well defer to you on that.
What is a case?
It's not a case in the sense of the word that existed prior to Covid.
Case numbers are a function of the volume of people tested, which Govt ramped up in order to increase 'cases' found and focus on them when deaths were low over summer.
Got to have something to keep the natives in check, after all.
The more cases you have, the more people are likely to need hospital treatment, the more likely the NHS will be overwhelmed.
So yes, cases matter. They are predictor of what is likely to happen and assist in identifying areas more affected than others.
Unless, of course, you think the govt make up the figures "to keep everyone in check".
So yes, cases matter. They are predictor of what is likely to happen and assist in identifying areas more affected than others.
Unless, of course, you think the govt make up the figures "to keep everyone in check".
unident said:
Gribs said:
You're an idiot if you think people traveling to exercise outdoors makes any significant difference to the length of the lockdown. What maters is hospital capacity and transmission rates. There's little we could do about the first other than prioritise vaccinations for those who are most likely to spend a long while in hospital, but that risks increased deaths. Transmission rates are driven by infected people meeting indoors. Perhaps having an effective track and trace system, along with suitable financial support (perhaps pay them 80% of their wage rather than SSP) for those asked to isolate would mean more than a fifth of people actually did it. The poor state we're in can be levelled almost entirely at our government and their cronies, not the public.
So all these people cramming into outdoor spaces like they did last summer on beaches, beauty spots etc made no difference at all to anything. I’m not disputing that effective systems would be good too, but it would be nice if individuals took some ownership of it too, rather than sticking it ot the man, Becca’s edit makes them look tough on PH. Nice insult again. Good to see you’re keeping up the approach
It doesn't tie into organised semi-outdoor events though (like Cheltenham) as they have lots of choke points and people tend to mingle with others much more than they would at say a beach.
Gribs said:
It doesn't tie into organised semi-outdoor events though (like Cheltenham) as they have lots of choke points and people tend to mingle with others much more than they would at say a beach.
It isn't just about people sitting on beaches, it's about how they get there and the risk of transmission generally. Go by train ? Go in a group ?Regarding Cheltenham - an interesting (if long) read;
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/20/viru...
Join the dots transmission and dodgy decisions wise, then add who your mates are/ it's all about the money and Cheltenham was one of the worst decisions made at the start of this.
It's also worth noting how quickly the "advice" changed and what was happening elsewhere in Europe whilst 250,000 people went to the races.
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