Emergency legislation - information and commentary
Discussion
Elysium said:
superlightr said:
Elysium said:
Gman20 said:
garyhun said:
What’s the difference between that and driving to an exercise area, from a legal POV?
If you are going on holiday, you are going on holiday, that is the primary act even if you plan to do some push ups the moment the plane touches down it is a minor ancillary act and does not change the fact you are going on holiday.Work explicitly allowed, exercise is explicitly allowed, going on holiday is not.
If you were genuinely in a position where you were going to Florida specifically to exercise and that was the primary act it would be allowed but you've got little chance of convincing anyone it is not actually a holiday.
Miami beech with a icecream in the sun would certainly help my mental health and exercise level - I would even say ill buy Elysium whatever icream or drink he wants when we raise a toast under the sun shade with our toes in the sand if I see him there .
I do wonder if there would be any real difficulty in simply booking a plane ticket and heading to the airport. I am not sure there are any actual barriers to doing it and aside from the quarantine stuff, it doesn't seem as if anyone coming back the the UK is being challenged about their 'reasonable excuse' for leaving in the first place
The more you look into the the guidance and regulations around coronavirus, the more you realise that the foundations are built on shifting sands
blueg33 said:
Elysium said:
Or you could drive to carry out essential maintenance to a holiday home and stay for a week or so for leisure.
You cant do that - I have looked at that carefully as I am currently doing essential maintenance on a holiday home. The leisure break whilst you are there is the bit that's not permitted, preparing a property for sale or let is expressly permitted.If it is within the UK then the question is if 'the place where you are living' can change.
There are plenty of examples of people in the public eye, including cabinet ministers and advisors to the Govt, who have moved to a different home during lockdown when the 'reasonable excuse' proviso has been in place.
Elysium said:
You can if the holiday home is outside of the UK. Because by the time you arrive there to do your maintenance you will no longer be subject to UK law.
If it is within the UK then the question is if 'the place where you are living' can change.
There are plenty of examples of people in the public eye, including cabinet ministers and advisors to the Govt, who have moved to a different home during lockdown when the 'reasonable excuse' proviso has been in place.
I understand that one could be challenged at the airport by plod/Border Force or even the airline check-in staff(??) as to one's intended travel purposes. How on earth would you prove your travel plans are legit? What is to stop me from saying I'm doing maintenance work on my relative's holiday let in Spain? How could any challenge stand up in a court in the UK if the 'offence' is committed in another country?If it is within the UK then the question is if 'the place where you are living' can change.
There are plenty of examples of people in the public eye, including cabinet ministers and advisors to the Govt, who have moved to a different home during lockdown when the 'reasonable excuse' proviso has been in place.
Dibble said:
Elysium said:
Once you are outside the UK you are free of its laws.
Generally true, but there are some offences you can commit abroad and be prosecuted for here (sex offences with children, mainly).I have not read all posts so apologies if repeating an already posted comment.
Boris has put together an exit plan. Is there an inclusion in this plan of undoing/removing the guidance/rules and importantly, Laws that have been put in place?
I can understand the setting up of just about most of these but what mechanisms are there to end them as they become obsolete.
The Laws is a key one as the rest can simply be lifted without fuss apart from arguments about the speed of removal and different areas of the UK with their own timetables for exit.
Boris has put together an exit plan. Is there an inclusion in this plan of undoing/removing the guidance/rules and importantly, Laws that have been put in place?
I can understand the setting up of just about most of these but what mechanisms are there to end them as they become obsolete.
The Laws is a key one as the rest can simply be lifted without fuss apart from arguments about the speed of removal and different areas of the UK with their own timetables for exit.
New "exit plan".
BBC - Covid-19: English travellers face fines and losing flights without new permit
Anyone travelling overseas from England from Monday will have to prove they are allowed to travel, or risk being turned away from the airport and fined.
They will need to complete a "Declaration to Travel" document from a government website...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56295486
BBC - Covid-19: English travellers face fines and losing flights without new permit
Anyone travelling overseas from England from Monday will have to prove they are allowed to travel, or risk being turned away from the airport and fined.
They will need to complete a "Declaration to Travel" document from a government website...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56295486
This thread is entitled "Emergency legislation..."
This time last year the UK faced an emergency. A real one. The Government first ignored the emergency. This was wrong. Then it pivoted and became the Covid Taliban. That was wrong too. The Government started by ignoring evidence. Then it was captured by modellers. Poor old evidence has never had much of a look in.
The winter just gone featured intense pressure on the NHS. That is now over. If there is such pressure again next winter, that will be the fault of lack of planning and resources.
The emergency is over. The Government has proved efficient at vaccinating vulnerable groups, and is moving fast to vaccinate everyone else. Well done. I mean it. The vaccine project is mega good. I went for my first jab last week. Super easy online booking. Zero waiting time, three minute appointment, super comms by email and text. No side effects in my case (Astra Zeneca) although my wife felt ill.
There is now no justification for any emergency legislation to remain in force. In the UK, Covid 19 is now just another disease that some people get, some people die of, and which can be vaccinated against with good effect in most cases. The NHS is not anywhere near collapsing and won't be again unless the Government allows this to happen though incompetence. There may be a spike in the autumn. So what? Also in autumn, leaves will fall off the trees.
A continued partial lockdown has no scientific or moral justification. BUT... the Government proposes that the emergency legislation should continue for at least another six months after April. Again this will be done with a short HOC debate but without the full Parliamentary process "because emergency". The Leader of the Opposition, a two legged man who would lose to a one legged man at an arse kicking contest, will cheer this on.
We have been told "Don't worry, as soon as the crisis is over we will all go back to normal. Civil liberties don't matter". So, where's the crisis in the UK?
I won't say anything about the grotesque spectacle of burly male police officers physically restraining women who sought peacefully to express their democratic rights, and doing this "for public safety". Civil liberties? Who cares? Covid!
Oh well, it's sunny and I have bought yet another 1970s rustbucket to sit in on assorted hard shoulders.
This time last year the UK faced an emergency. A real one. The Government first ignored the emergency. This was wrong. Then it pivoted and became the Covid Taliban. That was wrong too. The Government started by ignoring evidence. Then it was captured by modellers. Poor old evidence has never had much of a look in.
The winter just gone featured intense pressure on the NHS. That is now over. If there is such pressure again next winter, that will be the fault of lack of planning and resources.
The emergency is over. The Government has proved efficient at vaccinating vulnerable groups, and is moving fast to vaccinate everyone else. Well done. I mean it. The vaccine project is mega good. I went for my first jab last week. Super easy online booking. Zero waiting time, three minute appointment, super comms by email and text. No side effects in my case (Astra Zeneca) although my wife felt ill.
There is now no justification for any emergency legislation to remain in force. In the UK, Covid 19 is now just another disease that some people get, some people die of, and which can be vaccinated against with good effect in most cases. The NHS is not anywhere near collapsing and won't be again unless the Government allows this to happen though incompetence. There may be a spike in the autumn. So what? Also in autumn, leaves will fall off the trees.
A continued partial lockdown has no scientific or moral justification. BUT... the Government proposes that the emergency legislation should continue for at least another six months after April. Again this will be done with a short HOC debate but without the full Parliamentary process "because emergency". The Leader of the Opposition, a two legged man who would lose to a one legged man at an arse kicking contest, will cheer this on.
We have been told "Don't worry, as soon as the crisis is over we will all go back to normal. Civil liberties don't matter". So, where's the crisis in the UK?
I won't say anything about the grotesque spectacle of burly male police officers physically restraining women who sought peacefully to express their democratic rights, and doing this "for public safety". Civil liberties? Who cares? Covid!
Oh well, it's sunny and I have bought yet another 1970s rustbucket to sit in on assorted hard shoulders.
PS: Cautiously booked to go to Rome in June, but I wonder if Italy will flap. It's flapping at the moment, but may have stopped flapping by then. Maybe.
As for evidence: something like thirty people out of five million report blood clots and fourteen countries then pull the AZ vaccine. Evidence? Science? Irrelevant! Fear must rule! Covid Talibanism is a cult. Most religions are Death Cults. Covid Talibanism is a cult that insists that every human MUST BE IMMORTAL. NOBODY IS ALLOWED TO DIE.
As for evidence: something like thirty people out of five million report blood clots and fourteen countries then pull the AZ vaccine. Evidence? Science? Irrelevant! Fear must rule! Covid Talibanism is a cult. Most religions are Death Cults. Covid Talibanism is a cult that insists that every human MUST BE IMMORTAL. NOBODY IS ALLOWED TO DIE.
Breadvan72 said:
PS: Cautiously booked to go to Rome in June, but I wonder if Italy will flap. It's flapping at the moment, but may have stopped flapping by then. Maybe.
As for evidence: something like thirty people out of five million report blood clots and fourteen countries then pull the AZ vaccine. Evidence? Science? Irrelevant! Fear must rule! Covid Talibanism is a cult. Most religions are Death Cults. Covid Talibanism is a cult that insists that every human MUST BE IMMORTAL. NOBODY IS ALLOWED TO DIE.
I’m booked for France and classic Le Mans at the end of June early July. As for evidence: something like thirty people out of five million report blood clots and fourteen countries then pull the AZ vaccine. Evidence? Science? Irrelevant! Fear must rule! Covid Talibanism is a cult. Most religions are Death Cults. Covid Talibanism is a cult that insists that every human MUST BE IMMORTAL. NOBODY IS ALLOWED TO DIE.
The evidence on blood clotting is that it’s the same rate per thousand as the rate in the population normally without a vaccine.
I had the Astra Zeneca jab yesterday. All ok apart from I bit a few people on my way home........
A good decision here - no obligation to tell the police your name and address, and strong statements by the Court about how emergency powers are to be construed, and reinforcing civil liberties.
The case itself was another shocker: police hassling a homeless guy for the heinous crime of sitting on a bench in a park.
Note that one third of the prosecutions under Covid regs have been wrongful, but the SHUT UP AND OBEY cadre will tell us that all is fine and there is no cause for concern.
https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/covid-regulation...
https://www.bindmans.com/news/neale-v-dpp-the-righ...
Bindmans LLP put the point very well:
"... the case calls into question the logic behind aspects of the criminal justice response to the public health crisis created by the Coronavirus pandemic. Mr Neale was not placing anyone at risk when he sat on a bench lawfully waiting for an MOT test to be completed. The risk to public health, and cost to the taxpayer, was brought about by his subsequent arrest, detention and prosecution."
The case itself was another shocker: police hassling a homeless guy for the heinous crime of sitting on a bench in a park.
Note that one third of the prosecutions under Covid regs have been wrongful, but the SHUT UP AND OBEY cadre will tell us that all is fine and there is no cause for concern.
https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/covid-regulation...
https://www.bindmans.com/news/neale-v-dpp-the-righ...
Bindmans LLP put the point very well:
"... the case calls into question the logic behind aspects of the criminal justice response to the public health crisis created by the Coronavirus pandemic. Mr Neale was not placing anyone at risk when he sat on a bench lawfully waiting for an MOT test to be completed. The risk to public health, and cost to the taxpayer, was brought about by his subsequent arrest, detention and prosecution."
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 17th March 07:47
I note that the regulations here in Scotland are due to expire on March 31st. I wonder if they'll put new ones in place to tie in with reduced restrictions or just stick in another 6 month extension as is or maybe even let them lapse and keep us tied up with fear and guilt instead.
I can't see any justification for extending as is, but then again, when has that stopped them.
I can't see any justification for extending as is, but then again, when has that stopped them.
Edited by Desiderata on Wednesday 17th March 08:56
Breadvan72 said:
This thread is entitled "Emergency legislation..."
This time last year the UK faced an emergency. A real one. The Government first ignored the emergency. This was wrong. Then it pivoted and became the Covid Taliban. That was wrong too. The Government started by ignoring evidence. Then it was captured by modellers. Poor old evidence has never had much of a look in.
The winter just gone featured intense pressure on the NHS. That is now over. If there is such pressure again next winter, that will be the fault of lack of planning and resources.
The emergency is over. The Government has proved efficient at vaccinating vulnerable groups, and is moving fast to vaccinate everyone else. Well done. I mean it. The vaccine project is mega good. I went for my first jab last week. Super easy online booking. Zero waiting time, three minute appointment, super comms by email and text. No side effects in my case (Astra Zeneca) although my wife felt ill.
There is now no justification for any emergency legislation to remain in force. In the UK, Covid 19 is now just another disease that some people get, some people die of, and which can be vaccinated against with good effect in most cases. The NHS is not anywhere near collapsing and won't be again unless the Government allows this to happen though incompetence. There may be a spike in the autumn. So what? Also in autumn, leaves will fall off the trees.
A continued partial lockdown has no scientific or moral justification. BUT... the Government proposes that the emergency legislation should continue for at least another six months after April. Again this will be done with a short HOC debate but without the full Parliamentary process "because emergency". The Leader of the Opposition, a two legged man who would lose to a one legged man at an arse kicking contest, will cheer this on.
We have been told "Don't worry, as soon as the crisis is over we will all go back to normal. Civil liberties don't matter". So, where's the crisis in the UK?
I won't say anything about the grotesque spectacle of burly male police officers physically restraining women who sought peacefully to express their democratic rights, and doing this "for public safety". Civil liberties? Who cares? Covid!
Oh well, it's sunny and I have bought yet another 1970s rustbucket to sit in on assorted hard shoulders.
Patience, support, unity. No-one wants to see another wave.This time last year the UK faced an emergency. A real one. The Government first ignored the emergency. This was wrong. Then it pivoted and became the Covid Taliban. That was wrong too. The Government started by ignoring evidence. Then it was captured by modellers. Poor old evidence has never had much of a look in.
The winter just gone featured intense pressure on the NHS. That is now over. If there is such pressure again next winter, that will be the fault of lack of planning and resources.
The emergency is over. The Government has proved efficient at vaccinating vulnerable groups, and is moving fast to vaccinate everyone else. Well done. I mean it. The vaccine project is mega good. I went for my first jab last week. Super easy online booking. Zero waiting time, three minute appointment, super comms by email and text. No side effects in my case (Astra Zeneca) although my wife felt ill.
There is now no justification for any emergency legislation to remain in force. In the UK, Covid 19 is now just another disease that some people get, some people die of, and which can be vaccinated against with good effect in most cases. The NHS is not anywhere near collapsing and won't be again unless the Government allows this to happen though incompetence. There may be a spike in the autumn. So what? Also in autumn, leaves will fall off the trees.
A continued partial lockdown has no scientific or moral justification. BUT... the Government proposes that the emergency legislation should continue for at least another six months after April. Again this will be done with a short HOC debate but without the full Parliamentary process "because emergency". The Leader of the Opposition, a two legged man who would lose to a one legged man at an arse kicking contest, will cheer this on.
We have been told "Don't worry, as soon as the crisis is over we will all go back to normal. Civil liberties don't matter". So, where's the crisis in the UK?
I won't say anything about the grotesque spectacle of burly male police officers physically restraining women who sought peacefully to express their democratic rights, and doing this "for public safety". Civil liberties? Who cares? Covid!
Oh well, it's sunny and I have bought yet another 1970s rustbucket to sit in on assorted hard shoulders.
Breadvan72 said:
This thread is entitled "Emergency legislation..."
The Government has proved efficient at vaccinating vulnerable groups, and is moving fast to vaccinate everyone else. Well done. I mean it.
Should the Government take the credit for this, or is it the case that the NHS has proved efficient despite the lack of support from, and general incompetence of, the Government?The Government has proved efficient at vaccinating vulnerable groups, and is moving fast to vaccinate everyone else. Well done. I mean it.
Based on my experience of being semi-embedded in the Department of Health ten years ago (this may therefore be out of date), the NHS, which is often more efficient than its detractors suggest, tends to be at its most inefficient because of Government interference - the DoH is or was very hands on. By DoH here I mean the Ministers not the civil servants, the blundering tends to be led from the top. I do not know where the credit belongs. I am prepared to assume that maybe this Government which is in most respects spectacularly incompetent has got this one thing right. I'll gladly give the credit elsewhere if it belongs elsewhere.
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