Emergency legislation - information and commentary
Discussion
ozzuk said:
Patience, support, unity. No-one wants to see another wave.
Reads better in (North) Korean! The wrong kind of parrot, I fear. But perhaps you are being ironic, in which case launch away. Another wave? At present rates, about two thirds of the UK population will have been vaccinated by the summer. The vaccines work. But always the goal posts will move and we are told to expect months or years more of this nonsense.
blueg33 said:
I had the Astra Zeneca jab yesterday. All ok apart from I bit a few people on my way home........ 
Yep I had the AZ first jab yesterday afternoon, the nurse said that plenty of people had cancelled because of concerns and our village website has a few stories of people getting calls from the doctor asking if they can get to the surgery straight away since they had spare vaccines due to cancellations. It was pretty plain even to me that there was no real issue with the blood clotting, sad and concerning if this has caused people to cancel jabs. Humans have always been prone to hysteria and crazes and superstitions, and the media and Government handling of the pandemic have stoked the craziness. The Government and media have encouraged the population to succumb to irrational fear, and now look. Also, everybody on facebook is an expert on vaccines.
Breadvan72 said:
Humans have always been prone to hysteria and crazes and superstitions, and the media and Government handling of the pandemic have stoked the craziness. The Government and media have encouraged the population to succumb to irrational fear, and now look. Also, everybody on facebook is an expert on vaccines.
Says the guy who just confidently declared the emergency over.But no doubt you really are an expert on vaccines because lord sumption took you on a special 2 days course on how to talk like an expert in vaccines and pandemics.
Where's the emergency? The vaccines work. The vaccine delivery is going very well in the UK. The NHS is not in crisis because of Covid. But still the call is : "Restrict me harder, Daddy". I ask again, where's the emergency? If you say "rates might go up again in the autumn, I will again say: so what? In other SHOCK news: autumn expected to be season of mists and mellow fruitfulness.
Gman20 said:
Says the guy who just confidently declared the emergency over.
But no doubt you really are an expert on vaccines because lord sumption took you on a special 2 days course on how to talk like an expert in vaccines and pandemics.
Exactly. Return to normal too soon (as we've seen end of last year) and government will be lambasted, the same is true for dragging it out. It is very easy to cast comment from the side-lines when you aren't in a position of responsibility for this. I'm not saying the government shouldn't be held accountable, of course they should, but constantly throwing up issues with the approach without offering any useful suggestions, or showing any appreciation for what they are having to manage is just whinging (IMO).But no doubt you really are an expert on vaccines because lord sumption took you on a special 2 days course on how to talk like an expert in vaccines and pandemics.
And I stated many times (which you always ignore BV) why the government is doing this this way (guidance/law etc) in terms of population control (watchers/limit testers etc) but that doesn't fit with your agenda.
I assume you are counting yourself as human and therefore prone to hysteria, which you seem to be exhibiting now, the government isn't out to get you, or prolong this virus response just because they can - we all want this over and done with.
Please do not misrepresent what I say. I have never suggested the Government is out to get me or anybody. I suggest that the Government is in many respects incompetent (but it or someone may have played a blinder re vaccines). I suggest that the Government has a proven track record of disregard for the Constitution and the rule of law. I suggest that the Government is still paying too much attention to modelling, to media sentiment, and to blame avoidance. It should have courage, and should step up and now say - we have fixed this. Normal life is back.
There is no hysteria in concern about the draconian rules which now continue without any basis and are threatened for a further six months after April. The Neale case and the thuggish policing of the Clapham protest show how bad things can be. These are things that are actually happening, not hysterical projections.
There is no hysteria in concern about the draconian rules which now continue without any basis and are threatened for a further six months after April. The Neale case and the thuggish policing of the Clapham protest show how bad things can be. These are things that are actually happening, not hysterical projections.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 17th March 17:06
Breadvan72 said:
There is no hysteria in concern about the draconian rules which now continue without any basis and are threatened for a further six months after April. The Neale case and the thuggish policing of the Clapham protest show how bad things can be. These are things that are actually happening, not hysterical projections.
And now we have the increased powers of the police through the bill going through the house yesterday/today.It's time for this Emergency Legislation to end.
But wrt the vaccine? I'm now very reluctant to have it until some more study is done about it's connection (or otherwise) with blood clots. I'm in a position where I cannot give blood. The Transfusion Service will not take it from me because I had a blood clot thirty years ago which was dispersed with drugs but follow up investigations failed to come up with a conclusive diagnosis. I may or may not be more susceptible to clots as a result. I don't want to take risks with my health, and I'm not prepared to put "the greater good" first on current evidence. This is not hysteria, but measured caution.
But, vaccinated or not, I am now baffled by the reasons HMG keep giving for why restrictions need to continue. my council ward has "fewer than three" cases right now. Which could easily mean zero cases. It seems to be the case that in order to "catch" Covid-19 I'd have to work very hard to seek out someone who has it. The (formerly) "close to overwhelmed" local hospital has 22 cases. 12 on mechanical ventilators. The local leisure centre has become a Covid testing centre. Between three and five 'marshals' are seen regularly stood around outside doing the sum total of bugger all. I've not seen anyone other than the marshals coming or going from the test centre and I walk (or run, or cycle) past a minimum of twice per day, every day. And still NO-ONE in my circle of friends, family, neighbours or other acquaintances knows of ANY cases outside of hospital and workplace acquired infections.
The sooner the charade is dropped and life gets back to normal, the better. If there is a spike? Then so be it. We MUST now learn to live with this virus without wrapping the entire population in either cotton wool or shackles. Neither approach is good for us as a society.
But wrt the vaccine? I'm now very reluctant to have it until some more study is done about it's connection (or otherwise) with blood clots. I'm in a position where I cannot give blood. The Transfusion Service will not take it from me because I had a blood clot thirty years ago which was dispersed with drugs but follow up investigations failed to come up with a conclusive diagnosis. I may or may not be more susceptible to clots as a result. I don't want to take risks with my health, and I'm not prepared to put "the greater good" first on current evidence. This is not hysteria, but measured caution.
But, vaccinated or not, I am now baffled by the reasons HMG keep giving for why restrictions need to continue. my council ward has "fewer than three" cases right now. Which could easily mean zero cases. It seems to be the case that in order to "catch" Covid-19 I'd have to work very hard to seek out someone who has it. The (formerly) "close to overwhelmed" local hospital has 22 cases. 12 on mechanical ventilators. The local leisure centre has become a Covid testing centre. Between three and five 'marshals' are seen regularly stood around outside doing the sum total of bugger all. I've not seen anyone other than the marshals coming or going from the test centre and I walk (or run, or cycle) past a minimum of twice per day, every day. And still NO-ONE in my circle of friends, family, neighbours or other acquaintances knows of ANY cases outside of hospital and workplace acquired infections.
The sooner the charade is dropped and life gets back to normal, the better. If there is a spike? Then so be it. We MUST now learn to live with this virus without wrapping the entire population in either cotton wool or shackles. Neither approach is good for us as a society.
Edited by yellowjack on Wednesday 17th March 12:42
Ok, so grappling people to the ground for doing nothing that posed any meaningful Covid risk is OK because that wasn't as bad as old school kickings? Good to know!
Only four arrests? Why not zero? Four BS arrests are four too many.
Only four arrests? Why not zero? Four BS arrests are four too many.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 17th March 13:15
Cummings is giving it the sour grapes today and he is shoeing Hancock. Cummings claims, correctly or not, that the vaccine project works because a non DoH task force has done it.
I think that the Government and media have made things difficult by letting the public think that Covid can be ended rather than managed. All the BS military language about winning a war has been unhelpful. Covid isn't Hitler.
As for blood clot risk the evidence of any such risk thus far appears to be pretty much nil. It seems to me odd to accept on the one hand the very sensible position that Covid is now just one of the risks of life and on the other hand not to accept the tiny risk of getting vaccinated, but people must think what they think.
I think that the Government and media have made things difficult by letting the public think that Covid can be ended rather than managed. All the BS military language about winning a war has been unhelpful. Covid isn't Hitler.
As for blood clot risk the evidence of any such risk thus far appears to be pretty much nil. It seems to me odd to accept on the one hand the very sensible position that Covid is now just one of the risks of life and on the other hand not to accept the tiny risk of getting vaccinated, but people must think what they think.
yellowjack said:
It's time for this Emergency Legislation to end.
But wrt the vaccine? I'm now very reluctant to have it until some more study is done about it's connection (or otherwise) with blood clots. I'm in a position where I cannot give blood. The Transfusion Service will not take it from me because I had a blood clot thirty years ago which was dispersed with drugs but follow up investigations failed to come up with a conclusive diagnosis. I may or may not be more susceptible to clots as a result. I don't want to take risks with my health, and I'm not prepared to put "the greater good" first on current evidence. This is not hysteria, but measured caution.
But, vaccinated or not, I am now baffled by the reasons HMG keep giving for why restrictions need to continue. my council ward has "fewer than three" cases right now. Which could easily mean zero cases. It seems to be the case that in order to "catch" Covid-19 I'd have to work very hard to seek out someone who has it. The (formerly) "close to overwhelmed" local hospital has 22 cases. 12 on mechanical ventilators. The local leisure centre has become a Covid testing centre. Between three and five 'marshals' are seen regularly stood around outside doing the sum total of bugger all. I've not seen anyone other than the marshals coming or going from the test centre and I walk (or run, or cycle) past a minimum of twice per day, every day. And still NO-ONE in my circle of friends, family, neighbours or other acquaintances knows of ANY cases outside of hospital and workplace acquired infections.
The sooner the charade is dropped and life gets back to normal, the better. If there is a spike? Then so be it. We MUST now learn to live with this virus without wrapping the entire population in either cotton wool or shackles. Neither approach is good for us as a society.
Have you been on thinners for the last 30 years? If not then I think it is a stretch to say that you may be more susceptible to clots. 30 years would say otherwise. If you’ve been on thinners though, fair enough. But wrt the vaccine? I'm now very reluctant to have it until some more study is done about it's connection (or otherwise) with blood clots. I'm in a position where I cannot give blood. The Transfusion Service will not take it from me because I had a blood clot thirty years ago which was dispersed with drugs but follow up investigations failed to come up with a conclusive diagnosis. I may or may not be more susceptible to clots as a result. I don't want to take risks with my health, and I'm not prepared to put "the greater good" first on current evidence. This is not hysteria, but measured caution.
But, vaccinated or not, I am now baffled by the reasons HMG keep giving for why restrictions need to continue. my council ward has "fewer than three" cases right now. Which could easily mean zero cases. It seems to be the case that in order to "catch" Covid-19 I'd have to work very hard to seek out someone who has it. The (formerly) "close to overwhelmed" local hospital has 22 cases. 12 on mechanical ventilators. The local leisure centre has become a Covid testing centre. Between three and five 'marshals' are seen regularly stood around outside doing the sum total of bugger all. I've not seen anyone other than the marshals coming or going from the test centre and I walk (or run, or cycle) past a minimum of twice per day, every day. And still NO-ONE in my circle of friends, family, neighbours or other acquaintances knows of ANY cases outside of hospital and workplace acquired infections.
The sooner the charade is dropped and life gets back to normal, the better. If there is a spike? Then so be it. We MUST now learn to live with this virus without wrapping the entire population in either cotton wool or shackles. Neither approach is good for us as a society.
Edited by yellowjack on Wednesday 17th March 12:42
You might want to look into the risk of clotting that COVID presents though. In some patients it can produce a mass of micro clots throughout the body. I’m not sure that the cause or mechanism is fully understood but it is worth looking at if you are genuinely concerned. Likewise look at the actual risk of clots from the vaccine (which AIUI is quite a bit lower than the risk of clots in the general population).
BlackTails said:
Have you been on thinners for the last 30 years? If not then I think it is a stretch to say that you may be more susceptible to clots. 30 years would say otherwise. If you’ve been on thinners though, fair enough.
You might want to look into the risk of clotting that COVID presents though. In some patients it can produce a mass of micro clots throughout the body. I’m not sure that the cause or mechanism is fully understood but it is worth looking at if you are genuinely concerned. Likewise look at the actual risk of clots from the vaccine (which AIUI is quite a bit lower than the risk of clots in the general population).
I'm not arguing that my position is sensible. Just that the risk does niggle away at the back of my mind. I'm prone to crippling anxiety at times too. My mind is definitely not "wired up right", and I have a report written by a mental health professional that says as much. But to put my concerns in their place, I'd say that they are far below my concern that I may get run over by an inattentive driver while I'm out cycling. And below even my irrational fear that every clank and tick of a cooling central heating system means my house is about to fall down or get flooded. They may be irrational, but I've suffered getting run over by a van, and I've had my kitchen ceiling fall down after a water leak in the bathroom above. As I've spent 24 hours 'under observation' in hospital after collapsing with a clot in my arm. So my concerns might be exaggerated by personal experience, but they are not entirely without foundation...You might want to look into the risk of clotting that COVID presents though. In some patients it can produce a mass of micro clots throughout the body. I’m not sure that the cause or mechanism is fully understood but it is worth looking at if you are genuinely concerned. Likewise look at the actual risk of clots from the vaccine (which AIUI is quite a bit lower than the risk of clots in the general population).
Jasandjules said:
XCP said:
How many were arrested at Clapham? was it 4 people?.
The lives of hundreds of thousands of brave people were given to have those freedoms. They should not be removed at a whim and most certainly not at the behest of the Govt to prevent the people protesting against it.yellowjack said:
BlackTails said:
Have you been on thinners for the last 30 years? If not then I think it is a stretch to say that you may be more susceptible to clots. 30 years would say otherwise. If you’ve been on thinners though, fair enough.
You might want to look into the risk of clotting that COVID presents though. In some patients it can produce a mass of micro clots throughout the body. I’m not sure that the cause or mechanism is fully understood but it is worth looking at if you are genuinely concerned. Likewise look at the actual risk of clots from the vaccine (which AIUI is quite a bit lower than the risk of clots in the general population).
I'm not arguing that my position is sensible. Just that the risk does niggle away at the back of my mind. I'm prone to crippling anxiety at times too. My mind is definitely not "wired up right", and I have a report written by a mental health professional that says as much. But to put my concerns in their place, I'd say that they are far below my concern that I may get run over by an inattentive driver while I'm out cycling. And below even my irrational fear that every clank and tick of a cooling central heating system means my house is about to fall down or get flooded. They may be irrational, but I've suffered getting run over by a van, and I've had my kitchen ceiling fall down after a water leak in the bathroom above. As I've spent 24 hours 'under observation' in hospital after collapsing with a clot in my arm. So my concerns might be exaggerated by personal experience, but they are not entirely without foundation...You might want to look into the risk of clotting that COVID presents though. In some patients it can produce a mass of micro clots throughout the body. I’m not sure that the cause or mechanism is fully understood but it is worth looking at if you are genuinely concerned. Likewise look at the actual risk of clots from the vaccine (which AIUI is quite a bit lower than the risk of clots in the general population).
ETA - as above, one of the main things Covid likes doing is causing blood clots, so if you do manage to catch it without having the jab when we all start mixing without social distancing, you really are taking your chances then!
unident said:
Jasandjules said:
XCP said:
How many were arrested at Clapham? was it 4 people?.
The lives of hundreds of thousands of brave people were given to have those freedoms. They should not be removed at a whim and most certainly not at the behest of the Govt to prevent the people protesting against it.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff