Emergency legislation - information and commentary
Discussion
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Go back. Re-read what you just posted. EVERY piece of reasoned research from the medical profession states that if the number of cases entering the healthcare system is not managed that there will be deaths.
But these just won't be 'old people' it will be school children hit by a car, a premature baby unable to be ventilated, someone's wife misdiagnosed and dying of meningitis because an over stretched health care system cannot cope.
The entire point of lockdown is to prevent the exponential surge in cases that breaches the ability of the NHS to cope.
It is not to keep 'coffin dodgers' alive.
The financial impact is worth while to prevent a humanitarian catastrophe.
The economy will recover, yes some will loose their jobs, others will only be minorly inconvenienced. But we will be in a better position than if we hadn't.
No amount of whataboutery will fix this.
Lockdown has been deemed the best of the bad options available.
Now stay inside.
rayny said:
I'm not saying that the staff canteen would stop the spread of infection - but it could be used to help prevent it spreading outside of the building into the local community.
The idea is to keep public interaction to a minimum.
In the canteen staff would be mingling with people they are spending the working day with anyway.
By going out to get their lunch they are possibly going to interact with an extended group of, possibly vulnerable, people.
I'm sorry if I did not make this clear in my previous post .
I am sorry to be blunt, but you are an idiot. I am sorry to have to be firm, but FFS, wake up. Have you not listened to a single word about this disease? You say that the canteen staff would be mingling with the people they work with. FFS, THAT IS THE PROBLEM. Each of those people will also have travelled, mixed with people at home, etc. You think that your plan will contain the disease inside the office. Are you expecting all the workers to sleep there? Do you think that the virus respects the boundaries of buildings? I am sorry again to yell, but people who hold idiotic ideas such as yours are a big part of the problem. Please, get the message. No mingling. The idea is to keep public interaction to a minimum.
In the canteen staff would be mingling with people they are spending the working day with anyway.
By going out to get their lunch they are possibly going to interact with an extended group of, possibly vulnerable, people.
I'm sorry if I did not make this clear in my previous post .
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Some quick stats. In 2015, the UK had 2.6 hospital beds per 1000 people, and an average stay of 7 days. So that's roughly 8m stays per year. If we assume (ok, guess) 10% were for treatments likely to end in death if untreated, that would be 800k people who might die without hospital care.If the NHS is overwhelmed by Covid 19, those 800k (or whatever number) of people will die. That's a higher toll, many young and otherwise fit, than CV19 threatens. So "protect the NHS" is a reasonable objective, unless you want all CV19 patients to be denied hospital treatment and simply put into makeshift hospices (Excel centre, say) for palliative care.
In fairness, it is within living memory for some that a nasty cut from a rusty piece of metal could lead to death. We take for granted that our health service will patch us up, and perhaps as a result have a cavalier approach to personal responsibility and prudence.
Jasandjules said:
citizensm1th said:
When a minority are endangering the majority
Why do you suggest the "majority" are at risk? The person I am speaking to says no such thing and I would put his qualifications against yours any day of the week and twice on Sunday.This is unprecedented in our lifetime. I'm extremely strong and fit but I'm under no illusion could get CV just like anyone else. Do what the govt is telling you to do not what some mate of yours is advising. You're as much at risk as everyone else is you're no exception.
Telling others otherwise is a s
t thing to do.. How does this work. All shops not selling essential needs to close and no travel, again unless essential. Brother has been told he needs to go into work tomorrow. So now he has to travel (albeit not essential) as he works for a builders merchant and the warehouse and shop floor continues as normal
tony wright said:
How does this work. All shops not selling essential needs to close and no travel, again unless essential. Brother has been told he needs to go into work tomorrow. So now he has to travel (albeit not essential) as he works for a builders merchant and the warehouse and shop floor continues as normal
The advice is not to travel to work unless you cannot work from home and it is essential you go in. If your job depends upon it then it is essential to you.skwdenyer said:
tony wright said:
How does this work. All shops not selling essential needs to close and no travel, again unless essential. Brother has been told he needs to go into work tomorrow. So now he has to travel (albeit not essential) as he works for a builders merchant and the warehouse and shop floor continues as normal
The advice is not to travel to work unless you cannot work from home and it is essential you go in. If your job depends upon it then it is essential to you.markjmd said:
skwdenyer said:
tony wright said:
How does this work. All shops not selling essential needs to close and no travel, again unless essential. Brother has been told he needs to go into work tomorrow. So now he has to travel (albeit not essential) as he works for a builders merchant and the warehouse and shop floor continues as normal
The advice is not to travel to work unless you cannot work from home and it is essential you go in. If your job depends upon it then it is essential to you.skwdenyer said:
markjmd said:
skwdenyer said:
tony wright said:
How does this work. All shops not selling essential needs to close and no travel, again unless essential. Brother has been told he needs to go into work tomorrow. So now he has to travel (albeit not essential) as he works for a builders merchant and the warehouse and shop floor continues as normal
The advice is not to travel to work unless you cannot work from home and it is essential you go in. If your job depends upon it then it is essential to you.anonymous said:
[redacted]
Who do you propose we ask? I would have thought Johnson has enough advice from qualified people both in the UK and from other countries ahead of us in this to make a reasonable judgement.
Notwithstanding that, I’m asking you, what would you have done? I note that in your diatribe you don’t actually say.
By the way, you do realise that the limited number of deaths in China was following a much stricter lockdown than Boris has introduced?
Breadvan72 said:
rayny said:
I'm not saying that the staff canteen would stop the spread of infection - but it could be used to help prevent it spreading outside of the building into the local community.
The idea is to keep public interaction to a minimum.
In the canteen staff would be mingling with people they are spending the working day with anyway.
By going out to get their lunch they are possibly going to interact with an extended group of, possibly vulnerable, people.
I'm sorry if I did not make this clear in my previous post .
I am sorry to be blunt, but you are an idiot. I am sorry to have to be firm, but FFS, wake up. Have you not listened to a single word about this disease? You say that the canteen staff would be mingling with the people they work with. FFS, THAT IS THE PROBLEM. Each of those people will also have travelled, mixed with people at home, etc. You think that your plan will contain the disease inside the office. Are you expecting all the workers to sleep there? Do you think that the virus respects the boundaries of buildings? I am sorry again to yell, but people who hold idiotic ideas such as yours are a big part of the problem. Please, get the message. No mingling. The idea is to keep public interaction to a minimum.
In the canteen staff would be mingling with people they are spending the working day with anyway.
By going out to get their lunch they are possibly going to interact with an extended group of, possibly vulnerable, people.
I'm sorry if I did not make this clear in my previous post .
skwdenyer said:
markjmd said:
skwdenyer said:
tony wright said:
How does this work. All shops not selling essential needs to close and no travel, again unless essential. Brother has been told he needs to go into work tomorrow. So now he has to travel (albeit not essential) as he works for a builders merchant and the warehouse and shop floor continues as normal
The advice is not to travel to work unless you cannot work from home and it is essential you go in. If your job depends upon it then it is essential to you.Roger Irrelevant said:
That's a bit strong, for all you know the employer might have put 'No Coronavirus Past This Point' signs on the entrance to the canteen.
Ooops! My bad! I had not thought of that. Seriously though, the astonishingly stupid suggestions about the staff canteen left me gobsmacked. Is it possible for people to be that ill-informed? Answer: obviously yes. I wonder if we will see an attempt to defend the indefensible position, or whether the penny has now dropped.
Back to the emergency rules. We can expect, later this week -
(1) to have a new Act in force.
(2) to have some rules made by Ministers using powers to be contained in that Act.
Over legislation? I think so. The Government already had available the 2004 Act. For reasons that I think may well be political, it has chosen instead to build a clumsy, over long, over complex new Act that seeks to cover way too many subjects.
Parliament is to be asked yes/no questions as to continuing in place a whole raft of disparate measures. Of course, asking people binary yes/no black/white questions about multi factor complex subjects has never gone badly, now has it!
One of the problems that we face is that, even if Johnson et al are not ill-intentioned (and as to that I have strong doubts), they have a track record of incompetence. Can anyone remember a Cabinet line-up so devoid of apparent talent? Compare the Cabinet in WW2, a cross-party battery of very able people.
Meanwhile, the UK has no effective opposition. Labour is self indulgently consuming itself with an endless leadership contest, and internal wrangles over gender ideology . The LibDems have vanished. The SNP is in turmoil also, also consumed by gender ideology, and now by recriminations over the Salmond thing.
Hey ho. Let's have a look at the emergency powers re travel and assemblies as they appear later this week.
From my desk in sunny South Oxfordshire I can hear the traffic on the M40, two miles away. Will I still hear that by Friday?
Here's a set of Rules made back on 10 February, on the basis of extant public health preservation powers dating from the 1980s (1984, if you must know!)
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/129/conten...
Note that the Rules empower detention on the direction of the Secretary of State or of an NHS Consultant, in the interests of public health.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/129/conten...
Note that the Rules empower detention on the direction of the Secretary of State or of an NHS Consultant, in the interests of public health.
You remain a massive idiot. When in a hole, stop digging. Please explain the science whereby the virus knows not to infect anyone in the work canteen. Your Nobel Prize is waiting for you.
On the legislation side, I am interested in the fact that the Government put in place wide powers for the NHS as early as 10 February 2020, but then spent the next six weeks flip-flopping. Cock up, or conspiracy? I vote cock up.
On the legislation side, I am interested in the fact that the Government put in place wide powers for the NHS as early as 10 February 2020, but then spent the next six weeks flip-flopping. Cock up, or conspiracy? I vote cock up.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Well the senior vet in the 2001 Foot and Mouth disease crisis who worked with the Imperial college scientists then who are doing the modelling for this virus now, called them doom mongerers whose models were completely wrong leading to millions of animals being slaughtered unnecessarily then. This in a letter published in The Times newspaper some five days ago.Since they don't actually know how many people have had this virus, there figures are fundamentally guesswork.
Make your own mind up whether we are right to plunge the country into the deepest recession with businesses destroyed and bankrupted with potentially millions unemployed and a generation of children brought up in poverty on the guesswork of these people.
jm doc said:
Make your own mind up whether we are right to plunge the country into the deepest recession with businesses destroyed and bankrupted with potentially millions unemployed and a generation of children brought up in poverty on the guesswork of these people.
I'll have to borrow your crystal ball when it's free. Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff