Reporting a old age driver?
Discussion
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Visited my mum yesterday, she's 81. We were both going to the same place but on to different places afterwards, so I said I'd follow her, about 5 miles. Haven't been in the car with her driving for years, or seen her drive, so I thought it would be worth seeing her in action. Plus she has just got a brand new car, which she's still getting to grips with.
Anyway, she always has been a very good driver, and pleased to say she still is. If I ever get a call to say she's been killed or seriously injured in a car crash, I'd be pretty sure some young whippersnapper had caused it.
My grandfather was an exceptionally good driver and his decline was rapid. It started with a propensity for smashing wing mirrors off and ended within a couple of years with his death. From my families experience I’d say keep an eye on her driving and don’t be afraid to let her know if/when she starts to decline because she might not notice it to begin with. It’s great that she’s still good and presumably confident at her age though.Anyway, she always has been a very good driver, and pleased to say she still is. If I ever get a call to say she's been killed or seriously injured in a car crash, I'd be pretty sure some young whippersnapper had caused it.
djc206 said:
It’s not irrelevant because age brings with it inevitable mental and physical decline. Many old people will reach the point that they shouldn’t really be driving any more, if they don’t pass away before they reach that point of course. There’s not a good system in place for dealing with age related incompetence, the inevitability of which and with an ageing population there bloody well should be. I don’t want old people to have their licences taken away from them willy nilly but there is a very real problem with old folks driving who were once fine but now as a direct result of ageing are no longer competent.
I don't disagree with you. What I am saying is that all incompetence is bad. I'm sure a lot of old people would be pleased to be reviewed if it also offered them an advantage for insurance (too much to hope for). Probably because they don't cover so many miles, older people don't present, in relative terms, such a great hazard to the rest of us and, as a consequence, there may well be much more cost effective ways of saving lives. That might well be more police and more cameras checking on all of us!Above all, I don't like to see people being pre-judged on any basis, including age. If an older or younger person is involved in an accident, we shouldn't make the assumption that age related incompetence is the cause. A good friend of mine collided with a car coming from the opposite direction on a curve. My friend was in his mid-twenties and driving a TVR. He was not hurt, though somewhat shaken. Most of the front half of the GRP body of the TVR was reduced to powder. The other driver was a middle-aged man in a medium size family car. His bald head was badly cut and he was covered in blood. Two witnesses immediately presented themselves to state that my friend was driving too fast and wasn't in control of his car. And it all makes sense as it is well known that young men in sports cars are dangerous and cause accidents and it's a statistical fact. There's even a scientific basis in that risk aversion depends on the development of different parts of the brain and their connections notably on the orbitofrontal cortex that we know evolves significantly with age up to the late twenties.
Apart from all that wonderful stuff, in this particular case, a traffic policeman was also present and saw the middle aged driver fail to follow the line of the curve, cross to the wrong side of the road, and leave my friend no opportunity to take any avoiding action.
I apologise for this long ramble, but I hope it makes my point that it is wrong to make judgements of specific cases on the basis of broad generalisations that themselves may rely as much on prejudice as statistics.
A final point to show that I am aware of both sides of the problem and I'll not contribute again to this topic: my father-in-law reached a stage at just over 80 when his driving became dangerous. We used the kindest means and stopped him driving. His problem was soon diagnosed as a serious illness that resulted in his death. Would annual tests have helped? No, as his condition developed way too quickly. Moreover, his illness could as well have struck a person of any age.
I have another relative of even more advanced years who gave up driving because of macular degeneration. He made the decision himself. I was a passenger in his car shortly before he stopped and, in spite of me being by nature a nervous passenger, I found his driving as safe as anyone's. He is an intelligent, thoughtful and responsible person. I wish we all could be more like him and make good decisions
I have another relative of even more advanced years who gave up driving because of macular degeneration. He made the decision himself. I was a passenger in his car shortly before he stopped and, in spite of me being by nature a nervous passenger, I found his driving as safe as anyone's. He is an intelligent, thoughtful and responsible person. I wish we all could be more like him and make good decisions
A couple examples. My step father ex HGV driver, none of the traits of a bad driver, made very good progress, excellent mechanical sympathy. However, dementia started to set in, so barreling down a Scottish B road at 60 plus and a nice piece of scenery, of which there are many, catches his eye, is scary. Time to hang up the keys, I was not popular, even as the dementia got more severe, that is one thing he never forgot. I did buy them a tablet and taught them how to shop online and luckily for them, they live in a village that has an usually large amount of facilities.
The second example is an elderly woman in the same village an outstanding pillar of the community, lives a nice country pile and drives a Ford Fusion, that’s had more bangs than a Hollywood porn star. However, this reputation came crashing down, when she had appeared in court, for failing to report an accident, it transpired that she had crashed into another car in Morrison’s car park, all captured on CCTV, and just driven off, failing to report it..
With regards my step father, l tried to talk to his GP, but they seemed somewhat reluctant to intervene, the elderly spinster over 90 years old, still driving 4 years later. As we all know, there many drivers on PH who are of advanced years and no doubt excellent behind the wheel. However, there needs to be some regular competency test, as age can affect ability quickly, for the record I’m 60 years old.
The second example is an elderly woman in the same village an outstanding pillar of the community, lives a nice country pile and drives a Ford Fusion, that’s had more bangs than a Hollywood porn star. However, this reputation came crashing down, when she had appeared in court, for failing to report an accident, it transpired that she had crashed into another car in Morrison’s car park, all captured on CCTV, and just driven off, failing to report it..
With regards my step father, l tried to talk to his GP, but they seemed somewhat reluctant to intervene, the elderly spinster over 90 years old, still driving 4 years later. As we all know, there many drivers on PH who are of advanced years and no doubt excellent behind the wheel. However, there needs to be some regular competency test, as age can affect ability quickly, for the record I’m 60 years old.
Johnnytheboy said:
Riley Blue said:
Quite so but would you report them or does the assumption that they might improve (not all young drivers do) alter your thinking?
If I'm honest I wouldn't report them unless they were close to me and refused to see sense. bockaaarck said:
My father in law, sadly no longer with us (bless him). Was a very capable, aware and considered driver. But he started to realise he was not quite the driver he used to be.
Over the last few years before he passed away, he decided not to drive at night. As he found it challenging. And after a couple of minor little dings, to bollards / posts. He eventually decided enough was enough, and left the car on the drive.
He openly said he didn’t want to be responsible for causing an accident or hurting someone. So he would rather just call it quits
My grandad was the same, loved his cars and driving but unfortunately started to suffer with Alzheimers in his later years.Over the last few years before he passed away, he decided not to drive at night. As he found it challenging. And after a couple of minor little dings, to bollards / posts. He eventually decided enough was enough, and left the car on the drive.
He openly said he didn’t want to be responsible for causing an accident or hurting someone. So he would rather just call it quits
On one occasion, he gave my gran the slip while she was upstairs, got the car keys and set off. He was stopped fairly quickly by the police as someone had called in and reported him for doing 10-15mph on the local dual carriage-way and they were thankfully concerned enough to pick up the phone.
God knows where he would have ended up or what sort of accident he might have caused if they hadn't responded quickly. My gran kept her car at a friend's house after to stop him doing it again.
If there is a chance that someone might hurt themselves or others by driving in a particularly unusual style, I'd have no hesitation in reporting the issue.
Riley Blue said:
impreza280 said:
I have concerns about an elderly relative and have reported it to the DVLA (and their Doctor twice). It's clear the Doctor doesn't want to deal with it and the DVLA have taken no action in 11 weeks and I can't even get through to them.
Personally, I would have a compulsory retest at 70, then based on a score would determine how soon the next retest would be e.g. 1-5 years.
My relative's car control and eyesight are not in question - it's the declining judgment. This has gone downhill significantly in the last 6 months e.g. driving during lockdown to a garden centre for a coffee then being surprised when it was closed.
For that you want to stop them driving?Personally, I would have a compulsory retest at 70, then based on a score would determine how soon the next retest would be e.g. 1-5 years.
My relative's car control and eyesight are not in question - it's the declining judgment. This has gone downhill significantly in the last 6 months e.g. driving during lockdown to a garden centre for a coffee then being surprised when it was closed.
So, if you see driving that causes you serious concern, or have an elderly relative in this situation, do as this witness did and report it with evidence to 101. Don't bother with the doctor or DVLA. Without that witness, he would still be driving and it could have been much worse next time. This story ends with just a broken mirror and a dignified end to 60 years of driving.
Of course there should be a competency test..( I am 72), and at 75 will take the test quite willingly. Here in Ontario the test also has some subtle parts to determine if there is any sign of Alzheimer's which seems eminently sensible to me. You can either drive safely or you can't. I imagine in a few years I will not be doming any more track driving- we will see.
RDMcG said:
Of course there should be a competency test..( I am 72), and at 75 will take the test quite willingly. Here in Ontario the test also has some subtle parts to determine if there is any sign of Alzheimer's which seems eminently sensible to me. You can either drive safely or you can't. I imagine in a few years I will not be doming any more track driving- we will see.
Careful ... poor spelling is an early indicator 
whitesocks said:
I have always said that as soon as you reach 70, that it's. Your off the road and given a Bus Pass.
Please take your own advice when the time comes. Perhaps sooner. “Though drivers aged 17-19 only make up 1.5% of UK license holders; they are involved in 9% of fatal crashes where they are the driver – and altogether, drivers under the age of 25 cause 85% of all ‘serious injury’ accidents therefore, disproportionally effecting insurance claims. In fact, last year, a report by the Department for Transport released statistics detailing the number of fatalities and killed or seriously injured collision cases involving young car drivers specifically (aged 17 – 24-years-old), which altogether amounted to 4,561 incidents.
Nevertheless, some claim that young drivers are no more dangerous on the roads than older drivers. Recent figures from the UK’s Department for Transport revealed that there is an estimated 4.5 million people aged 70 or over in the UK who have a full driver’s licence – 236 of whom are aged 100 or over; a far larger number than young drivers.
It is clear to see from data released by Gov.uk last year, that drivers aged 20–29 pose the most risk on our roads. With dramatically higher figures than any other age group, drivers in their twenties were last year involved in 20,841 road incidents of all severities – considerably higher than any other age group and drastically greater than road incidents of all severities involving drivers aged 70–79 (3,254) and road incidents involving drivers aged 80 and over (1,939.)”
whitesocks said:
I have always said that as soon as you reach 70, that it's. Your off the road and given a Bus Pass.
Words fail me. A blanket removal of thousands of licences, for no reason other than age. I would happily remove your licence right now, as you clearly can't think straight. Alzheimer's disease, possibly?Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff