New driver and speeding. Revocation?
Discussion
Whilst it's true that some people have meltdowns in tests generally, I do wonder whether you can or indeed should consider what that trait means for their driving generally.
If they don't respond to stressful situations well, there's a good chance they'll just shutdown mentally when presented with something on the road that is unusual - e.g. a child running out in front.
The attitude to driving in this country seems to be that it is essentially an automatic right, that its a given that everyone who sets out to do it will pass and be deemed competent enough to do it. In other walks of life, with professional qualifications especially, if you don't meet the grade then that's just the way it is.
There seems to be a reticence towards this, for hard truths, when it comes to driving, even though the ramifications for others from someone being barely able to handle stressful situations are far greater than just not being able to remember how to configure a bit of networking gear properly, or something.
I don't know whether someone failing 5+ times is necessarily a bad driver, but even if it's just because they don't handle examinations (stress) well, I don't think it reflects particularly well on them being able to handle similar pressure when they're actually driving.
If they don't respond to stressful situations well, there's a good chance they'll just shutdown mentally when presented with something on the road that is unusual - e.g. a child running out in front.
The attitude to driving in this country seems to be that it is essentially an automatic right, that its a given that everyone who sets out to do it will pass and be deemed competent enough to do it. In other walks of life, with professional qualifications especially, if you don't meet the grade then that's just the way it is.
There seems to be a reticence towards this, for hard truths, when it comes to driving, even though the ramifications for others from someone being barely able to handle stressful situations are far greater than just not being able to remember how to configure a bit of networking gear properly, or something.
I don't know whether someone failing 5+ times is necessarily a bad driver, but even if it's just because they don't handle examinations (stress) well, I don't think it reflects particularly well on them being able to handle similar pressure when they're actually driving.
vonhosen said:
The number of tests isn't a good indicator of their driving post test.
When they are learning they have to be supervised. Better metrics would be offending or accidents post test when they are no longer required to be supervised.
We already have a method for dealing with offending post test that removes the worst drivers for varying lengths of time & simple finances can remove a lot of people who have too many accidents post test through increased premiums.
Agreed with the above, however, the number of tests needed does provide a good indicator of the innate ability. I had an army student once who just did not have the required mental capacity to drive. Following a discussion with him and his commanding officer it was decided he would not carry on. Given enough attempts he may have passed a test, given luck in the driving conditions on the test. But he was quite candid and stated he was scared every time he got behind the wheel even after more than 20 lessons with several instructors. Some people are just not 'cut out' for driving and would be better off not driving.When they are learning they have to be supervised. Better metrics would be offending or accidents post test when they are no longer required to be supervised.
We already have a method for dealing with offending post test that removes the worst drivers for varying lengths of time & simple finances can remove a lot of people who have too many accidents post test through increased premiums.
KevinCamaroSS said:
It really is not that complicated. Let's use some simple numbers to run through it. 6 driving ability levels, rank them 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. The average is 3.5. Now, remove the bottom 2 ranks (let's say through tougher testing) you now end up with 3,4,5 & 6. Average is now 4.5. Obviously the relative number of drivers in each rank will make a difference, but, you could divide all drivers into 6 equal ranks on ability, the result would be exactly that. The average ability would have increased from 3.5 to 4.5.
Completely made up numbers. BertBert said:
KevinCamaroSS said:
It really is not that complicated. Let's use some simple numbers to run through it. 6 driving ability levels, rank them 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. The average is 3.5. Now, remove the bottom 2 ranks (let's say through tougher testing) you now end up with 3,4,5 & 6. Average is now 4.5. Obviously the relative number of drivers in each rank will make a difference, but, you could divide all drivers into 6 equal ranks on ability, the result would be exactly that. The average ability would have increased from 3.5 to 4.5.
Completely made up numbers. KevinCamaroSS said:
Agreed, personally I believe that once you have taken the test, and failed, 3 times there should be a mandatory 12 months and minimum 20 lessons before you can take it again. After a further 3 attempts that should be game over. This would improve the standard of driving in the country, as would 5 yearly mandatory re-tests. Driving is a privilege, not a right.
Not sure where the numbers came from but agreed, there should be a point where you are told "you don't have the ability/sense to control a 1.5 ton machine, capable of travelling over 100mph". Buy a bike. Or maybe if you fail three times, early free bus ticket like pensioners get?8 tests suggests to me a crap driver who got through by luck. Then he's proved it by getting his ticket revoked. Good.
matt0677 said:
8 tests suggests to me a crap driver who got through by luck. Then he's proved it by getting his ticket revoked. Good.
Not sure how speeding proves someone is a crap driver. Speeding where it is reasonably clear, the weather and road conditions are good, in a suitable vehicle, isn't necessarily bad driving. It is just breaking an arbitrary blanket limit imposed by the government when cars were far less capable.I'd feel far safer driving 100mph in a bog standard 2020 Golf in than I would driving 70mph in a MK1 Golf.
I agree with the idea of mandatory retests though. Every 10 years or so might be a good idea. Just a short test, and if the instructor thinks you're not up to scratch then force an extended test to make sure. The idea is that a driving test should prove *minimum* skills and experience to operate a vehicle on the roads, and people should improve after passing their test rather than get worse. Sadly, for a lot of drivers, their performance in their driving test seems to be the peak of their abilities.
spookly said:
Not sure how speeding proves someone is a crap driver. Speeding where it is reasonably clear, the weather and road conditions are good, in a suitable vehicle, isn't necessarily bad driving. It is just breaking an arbitrary blanket limit imposed by the government when cars were far less capable.
I'd feel far safer driving 100mph in a bog standard 2020 Golf in than I would driving 70mph in a MK1 Golf.
I agree with the idea of mandatory retests though. Every 10 years or so might be a good idea. Just a short test, and if the instructor thinks you're not up to scratch then force an extended test to make sure. The idea is that a driving test should prove *minimum* skills and experience to operate a vehicle on the roads, and people should improve after passing their test rather than get worse. Sadly, for a lot of drivers, their performance in their driving test seems to be the peak of their abilities.
much as I hate the every increasing parasitic bureaucracy that blights any attempt to live a simple life, I do wonder if something like this would provoke a lot of the meanderingly aimless and thoroughly shlt drivers on our congested roads to simply throw the towel in.I'd feel far safer driving 100mph in a bog standard 2020 Golf in than I would driving 70mph in a MK1 Golf.
I agree with the idea of mandatory retests though. Every 10 years or so might be a good idea. Just a short test, and if the instructor thinks you're not up to scratch then force an extended test to make sure. The idea is that a driving test should prove *minimum* skills and experience to operate a vehicle on the roads, and people should improve after passing their test rather than get worse. Sadly, for a lot of drivers, their performance in their driving test seems to be the peak of their abilities.
CanAm said:
I work with a young man in his early twenties. He told me he was going to learn to drive, but he was taking the provisional licence application to his aunt to fill it in for him.
Perhaps I'm being harsh here, but that doesn't sound promising.
I see where you are coming from, but form filling and safe driving are too very different skills.Perhaps I'm being harsh here, but that doesn't sound promising.
Some people just cannot deal with forms. They don't complete them often and find them worrying.
A couple of months ago I was asked to complete the small business £10,000 COVID grant form for one of my clients because he is dyslexic and wasn't confident of his own ability to get it right .
But I completely trust his ability to rebuild the engine and prepare my car for track days, and he himself holds both a driving licence and an FIA racing licence.
If driving licences were only granted to those who can spell, 50% of the membership of Pistonheads wouldn't have one, even if they are tall enough to reach the break peddle.
CanAm said:
I work with a young man in his early twenties. He told me he was going to learn to drive, but he was taking the provisional licence application to his aunt to fill it in for him.
Perhaps I'm being harsh here, but that doesn't sound promising.
How does he hope to pass the theory?Perhaps I'm being harsh here, but that doesn't sound promising.
Tony1963 said:
QBee said:
break peddle.
Intentional?I never normally pick people up on their spelling because I feel it is bad manners and mocking.
The only exception I make is when it is unintentionally hilarious.
Chris32345 said:
How does he hope to pass the theory?
Per the .gov web site:If you have a reading difficulty, disability or health condition
When you book your theory test you should say if you have a:
reading difficulty
disability
health condition
You have reading difficulties
You can ask to hear the test through headphones when you book your test. You can hear it in English or Welsh.
You can listen to the questions and possible answers as many times as you need to.
Other types of support
You can get other support during your theory test if you send proof that you have reading difficulties.
This can be an email, letter or report from:
a teacher or other educational professional
a doctor or medical professional
You can get:
extra time to take the test
someone to read what’s on the screen and record your answers
someone to reword the questions for you
surveyor said:
His court paperwork has come through.
Does anyone know. If the license is revoked After 6 points and he passes his tests again by some miracle will the 6 penalty points carry forward onto his new license.
I suspect yes, but it’s not completely clear.
If he accumulates 6 or more points within two years of first passing a test, his licence will be revoked. This is an administrative process by the DVLA and, subject to not being disqualified by the court, he can continue to drive until he receives written notification of the revocation and the date of its commencement..Does anyone know. If the license is revoked After 6 points and he passes his tests again by some miracle will the 6 penalty points carry forward onto his new license.
I suspect yes, but it’s not completely clear.
He can retake a test at any time after revocation and yes, any existing points will be carried on to his new licence.
SS2. said:
surveyor said:
His court paperwork has come through.
Does anyone know. If the license is revoked After 6 points and he passes his tests again by some miracle will the 6 penalty points carry forward onto his new license.
I suspect yes, but it’s not completely clear.
If he accumulates 6 or more points since first passing a test, his licence will be revoked. This is an administrative process by the DVLA and, subject to not being disqualified by the court, he can continue to drive until he receives written notification of the revocation and the date of its commencement..Does anyone know. If the license is revoked After 6 points and he passes his tests again by some miracle will the 6 penalty points carry forward onto his new license.
I suspect yes, but it’s not completely clear.
He can retake a test at any time after revocation and yes, any existing points will be carried on to his new licence.
He works for a risk averse insurance company and gets 50% discount. I’m guessing that 6 points and a new license will put him out of their cover criteria...
SS2. said:
If he accumulates 6 or more points within two years of first passing a test, his licence will be revoked. This is an administrative process by the DVLA and, subject to not being disqualified by the court, he can continue to drive until he receives written notification of the revocation and the date of its commencement..
That’s a bit generous isn’t it, knowing that a percentage of stuff gets lost in the post (and another, possibly larger, percentage gets lost by the DVLA).Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff